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Will Microsoft ride in as white knight to save Winamp from its imminent demise?
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 21 November, 2013
Yesterday we reported that popular media player Winamp was being shutdown by its owner AOL at the end of December.
The outpour of support for the software was great, and a petition on Change.org reached nearly 6000 signatures overnight to save the media player or at least make it open source. While many were sad the software was to be shut down, there may be an unlikely white knight; Microsoft.
... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Senior Member
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4. December 2013 @ 22:35 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
The main caveat there is, BD-Rs are more expensive, byte-for-byte, than hard drives currently are, and are FAR slower than HDs. A 25-pack of 50GB Blu-Ray blank disks costs $65-80, depending on manufacturer and distributor, for a total of 1.25GB of storage. I know for a fact that 2GB+ external HDs currently run for the exact same price range. Just check out Newegg, especially their newsletter discounts, if you don't believe me; they recently offered a 3GB external for $89. BD-RWs are FAR more expensive than BR-Rs, as well.
You quite literally can archive external HDs for less and gain faster access/write times; they are fully erasable/rewritable AND take up less space, to boot (for an equivalent amount of storage). HDs also don't require the acquisition of a separate BD burner, which will ALSO cost nearly as much as an external HD - lol.
Quite a few recent receivers/"media center" boxes support external HDs, whether by USB or ethernet, as well.
Well you might as well double up on those HDDs and data Bozo because the ONLY media I've found to be reliable are USB sticks.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 00:34 |
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Even flash memory eventually fails, you know, after extensive use. NOTHING is permanent. CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays can delaminate after 5-15 years (greatly varying by conditions stored in and manufacturer), for example.
Remember, I'm responding to people who are already speaking about BD-Rs. For cost:storage (and cost:cubic volume taken), there's no comparison; the opticals lose. For resistance to damage, the jury is out; BOTH HDs and BDs are vulnerable in different ways.
USB sticks are a LOT - like 15-25x - more expensive than either optical or HD storage, by cost:bytes stored. Yes, they are quite a bit more durable, but how many people can afford a huge collection of high-capacity USB sticks? Currently, a SanDisk 32GB stick costs roughly $60, FFS! It's true that most people wouldn't need to use more then 5-10 32GB sticks, unless they keep mostly FLAC tracks and or a huge amount of music, but we are talking about audiophiles here, you know?
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 01:07 |
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Fair enough :) ... I'm not really recommending flash sticks here Bozo... except for important documents and pictures and vids maybe. I've never known one to fail... yet. I've had them go through the wash and they've still come out ok.
I actually agree with you. I would use HDDs over recording with BD-Rs. I'm just saying if the data is really important to you then make sure you back it up elsewhere like another HDD (which admittedly adds to the costs).
PS: $60!!! where do you go man? I can score a SanDisk 64GB locally for about that price! http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf
PSS: I used to have Denon and Kef stuff back in the day myself.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 01:57 |
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*shrug* That was off a quick Google search. I didn't even check Newegg.
Frankly, if the data is that important, and isn't overly "sensitive", cloud storage is probably the best current alternative, if you have good enough internet bandwidth.
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 06:29 |
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Lot of if's.........
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 11:33 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Lot of if's.........
Agreed. That's why it wasn't my initial suggestion.
It boils down to this: If you want high-density storage for your media, you really have only two choices: HDs or flash storage (either as USB sticks or one or more flash drives). USB sticks are more portable and very tough, but also very expensive by the byte, external flash drives (SSDs) are still pretty expensive and have a set lifespan, but are far more reasonable than USB sticks for cost, and HDs have the best cost per byte.
What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary.
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 18:32 |
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Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 19:32
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 19:17 |
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That has to be coming next. That Pioneer board is sick, how many overlays can it do in real time? Looks like plenty. That's a good deal on Amazon. If Christmas and one of my sisters didn't hit me hard I might think about the BD-R2000 although I really need to get a couple or more of the Crown XLS 2500's.
Way to go Mrguss!
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 19:20 |
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Again, you're looking at 650GB total storage for $25; that still ends up more expensive, by the byte, than HDs.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 20:58
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 19:30 |
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Again you wouldn't understand.
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 19:41 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
Again, you're looking at 650GB total storage for $25; that still rends up more expensive, by the byte, than HDs.
Is the price a DJ &/or VJ pay for it, just to have a little fun out there.
Any real musician will tell you the same thing.
My biggest problem is that I play almost all kind of music.
A hobby is like a passion or addiction.
I guess is like the real video-gamers feel for it, etc.
DJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMB-QqQpZ2o
VJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9T3Kxqh_zA
Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 20:01
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 19:57 |
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He doesn't get how you are using it, as you said you'd have to be a musician to understand, and that's hitting the nail on the head squarely.
I'm envious myself.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 21:03 |
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No, I get it. Snob factor FTL =) . You're just stuck on the format. And no, not a single VJ board supports BRs (yet, funny enough, most of them support external HDs - lol). Furthermore, you can duplicate most, if not all, of the functions of one of those systems with a laptop running WinAMP and Milkdrop.
You need to decide whether you're doing this for portability, durability, or capacity/cost per byte (you can pick any two). Point of fact, BD-Rs are inferior in each of those categories. Nor is there a single usage, where BD-Rs can be used but none of the other options can be.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 21:05
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Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 22:58 |
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WinAMP really, that says a lot, but like I've said before, it isn't worth arguing with a broken record. Although you have some good points, and I was well aware of them long before you reiterated them. You are not totally correct and I'll leave it at that, since it is an obvious waste of time.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 23:22 |
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If you don't put forth your counterpoints, you are merely insisting. You have not produced one actual counterpoint. Sorry, but that does not define truth, it defines you as smug and self-satisfied.
I know for a fact that a good number of DJs/VJs actually DO use WinAMP + Milkdrop. No, it doesn't have quite as many functions as some dedicated systems, but it's also *cough* free.
Again, be as elitist as you like. That's a quite common audiophile trait. So is paying far too much for exceedingly shaky tech, at times =3 . The number of orgasmic audiophile reviews on those things... Amazingly funny.
Even if you want to do shows, a large external drive currently is FAR more useful than any Blu-Ray setup, sorry, and is also significantly less expensive and more portable to boot. Even many (if not most) of the "Pro" consoles and rack systems support USB (and often ethernet) storage, and for damn good reason. Your snark will not negate these facts in the slightest.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 23:24
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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5. December 2013 @ 23:22 |
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*double post*
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. December 2013 @ 23:22
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Senior Member
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6. December 2013 @ 05:56 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary.
That's nice but it's not as cheap as you make out. (And if you you use archive HDDs then double the price.)
At 4 cents a GB the BluRay disks are cheaper... but not by a whole lot.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Senior Member
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6. December 2013 @ 06:35 |
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It's not worth it Jem....
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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6. December 2013 @ 12:26 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary.
That's nice but it's not as cheap as you make out. (And if you you use archive HDDs then double the price.)
At 4 cents a GB the BluRay disks are cheaper... but not by a whole lot.
An $89 3TB HD (sale price, but relatively easy to find, as an internal drive, and often as an external) has a cost of just slightly under 3 cents a GB. No, BRs are NOT cheaper, as I've been trying to explain to you. The external HD also takes up far less space than your BRs.
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Senior Member
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6. December 2013 @ 16:21 |
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MY BRs! lol
I don't actually disagree with you in general Boz except on your over optimistic pricing. You're out by 1TB. And that's still not counting the archive or NAS version HDDs...
http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf
Heck, I just had yet another HDD failure to deal with today!
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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6. December 2013 @ 16:26 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
MY BRs! lol
I don't actually disagree with you in general Boz except on your over optimistic pricing. You're out by 1TB. And that's still not counting the archive or NAS version HDDs...
http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf
Heck, I just had yet another HDD failure to deal with today!
I still have a 3TB USB 3.0 drive from the Newegg newsletter for $89 in my inbox. That price has come by every so often for a while, now. That's the example I've been using.
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Senior Member
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7. December 2013 @ 18:36 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
...You're just stuck on the format.
It's not limit on formats to choose from. I just choose the best I think it's the best format out there for now.
Originally posted by Bozobub:
...most VJ board supports external HDs - lol).
Actually DJ's & VJ's are going Cloud! 'cos most players today are supporting WI-Fi.
Originally posted by Bozobub:
you can duplicate... with a laptop running WinAMP and Milkdrop.
1.- I'm not one of those "Laptops DJ's"
2.- Most "Pro-Laptop-Dj's" use: Traktor or Rekord-Box.
3.- I consider all those "Laptop DJ's" playing Low Quality MP3's as just and simple Amateurs.
Originally posted by Bozobub:
You need to decide whether you're doing this for portability, durability, or capacity/cost per byte
Actually non of them: I just want to make Masters.
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Point of fact, BD-Rs are inferior in each of those categories. Nor is there a single usage, where BD-Rs can be used but none of the other options can be.
Wrong.
The fact that VJ's players don't support BR's Yet is because the same thing that happen to CD's replaced by Low Quality MP3's [More profits for the sealers]. I say: PROFITS: a corporate thinking.
Is the same thing; happening to the DVD's going into low quality MPEG4 that you can download for free on you-tube or else.
But always it gonna be THE PRO people: Who want & choose the best format for wherever reason they have.
These Pro people don't care much about comparing prices. They just want the best.
That is why: always will be Public & Pro Recording Brands to choose from.
P.S.
Singing Karaoke or playing Guitar Hero DO-NOT make you a PRO!
lol.
Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. December 2013 @ 19:51
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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7. December 2013 @ 22:51 |
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- Cloud storage only works if you have sufficient bandwidth available. NOT a universal solution, by any means.
- No one but you has mentioned mp3s or mp4s. FLAC, for example, is lossless beyond, of course, the inevitable sampling loss from converting analog to digital, but ALL digital formats will share at least this flaw.
- If you want to make masters, FLAC (or a similar lossless codec, if you prefer) is the way to go, once again. No CD or DVD-audio format can compare, sorry.
- Even mp3s, at a high enough bitrate and sampling frequency, can be superior to CDs. Are you unaware that redbook (CD) audio is also a digital, LOSSY format?
- The "Pro" decks don't support BRs, simply because the format is already pretty much obsolete, until/unless the 250GB disks come out for commercial use AND are affordable, which is definitely not a given.
- You are the only one who mentioned karaoke or Guitar Hero.
If you were worried only about "the best", that would make sense, except nothing about BRs is, in fact, "the best", except perhaps their aerodynamics when used as a frisbee or ranged weapon. Once again, you're relying on perceived snoot factor vs. actual value or functionality.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. December 2013 @ 22:52
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Senior Member
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8. December 2013 @ 00:07 |
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Good for you Mrguss,but as you can see here comes the Bozo one more time so hopully you can see it is a waste of time trying to help him see the light. but good try and you hit it square for the most part.
Way to go...
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. December 2013 @ 00:30 |
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Again, actual counterpoints or you fail. Snide insinuation is not debate, sorry.
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