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Attn: Newbies... this is why you should NOT buy CMC MAG or any other unknown media...
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Senior Member
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20. February 2006 @ 12:52 |
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ERICKST - KPROBE is similiar to Nero CD/DVD Speed. However I would think Nero CD/DVD should work with your burner. It works with several other LiteOn's. If you have InCD installed, you may want to uninstall it. I believe that was causing conflicts with my Nero CD/DVD test. At least when I uninstalled it on mine, my Nero CD/DVD test started working with my BenQ.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2006 @ 12:52
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ERICST
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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20. February 2006 @ 13:16 |
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How do I know if I have INCD?
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Senior Member
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20. February 2006 @ 14:08 |
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This is from a 4 year old CMC Verbatim Data Life +. It is one of the very few i have kept as all the others died, or were transfered to TY media. This one seems to be doing ok. It came out with the same score as a Sony D-21 i posted earlier. It was burnt at 1x on a panasonic DVR i had. Scan looks better than i thought it would.
***edit to show incd check***
@ERICST
If you have Nero run info tools. Click on the Drivers Tab.
If you have INCD it will show up with something other than a n/a as mine shows in this example.
If you find it on your system, and want to burn DVDs, you should remove it with the zapper:
http://www.nero.com/nero6/enu/InCD_CleanTool.html
Die CMC Mag!!!This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2006 @ 14:23
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2006 @ 16:32 |
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Senior Member
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20. February 2006 @ 16:41 |
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@Tokijin
Sorry, i didnt read the whole thread, and missed that ERICST was having a problem with getting Nero info tools to work.
I also use DVD Info Pro, and it has a free version.
K-Probe is a very good program also. I use Nero Info Tools mainly as that is what ive seen most post of here, and it does a good job. If info tools doesnt work, K-Probe is a good alternative.
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2006 @ 16:46 |
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You don't need to apologize. I've never used Nero Info Tool. The only reason I know about K-probe is from Alkohol and DocTY. At least your drive works with Nero CD/DVD Speed, mine (Sony DRU-810A) only measures max PIE's. It doesn't support PI/PO scanning. Cheers!
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forkndave
Member
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20. February 2006 @ 17:34 |
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Here's a Verbatim DL burned on a Pioneer 109 at 6X. It's fairly good but I usually get a better scan with a SL disc. DL discs never seem to scan as well for me as the SL ones do although they all play OK. That is they do as long as I burn them with ImgBurn or DVD Decrypter. If I burn one with Nero I always get a DVD structure invalid message from AnyDVD and it won't always play on a DVD player. I usually solve that problem by just not using Nero for DL discs. This was sort of a waste putting this on a DL disc since it is only 6GB and would have compressed fine with DVD Shrink.
Dave
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2006 @ 18:04 |
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Ditto. I never get as a good results on DVD+R DL Verb's. I get good results, but not great. The only ones I've used are rated for 2.4x. Before I knew what I was doing, I would burn them at 4x. That resulted in some playback errors, so I dropped it down to 2x and that alleviated the issues. When is TY going to come out with DL discs? DocTY mentioned something about it, but nothing definite. Oh well Verb DL media beats the hell out of Ritek DL media. Cheers!
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forkndave
Member
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20. February 2006 @ 18:26 |
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These are rated for 2.4X although it says on the package they are for up to 6X with compatible burners. I guess the Pioneer is one of the compatible burners since they burn OK at that speed. My BenQ will burn them at 4X, but I usually stick to the Pioneer since it is faster and I believe gives better burns. I usually stick with those two burners because My Lite-On and my LG don't automatically book type. If I forget to do it I can only play them on my computer which is no treat. None of my players will play DL unless it is book typed to DVD-ROM. I'd be afraid to try a -R DL since they can't be book typed. I have to copy this particular movie every now and then because my grand daughter likes it for some reason and she's always destroying or losing them.
Dave
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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20. February 2006 @ 21:06 |
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WOW thats a pretty good scan for memorex ,not bad
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2006 @ 21:08
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Senior Member
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21. February 2006 @ 17:56 |
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Here is a Ty burnt at 6x. Sony MIJ
An entity in this thread says CMCs are great quality discs and firmware is the reason CMCs dont burn. I guess even the above scan will not convince it.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/4/232406
im not going to argue with it anymore. It has to do more than blow a lot of hot air before it convinces me CMCs are great. Facts, we want facts.. Scans at least.. Dang it.. sigh,, think happy calm thoughts.. hmmmmm ok im better now..
Love them Yudens.. Very good indicator of good media to me. And i could have burned slower, but this is the way it came out, and im happy with it. :)
***edit***
@aabbccdd
Quote:
WOW thats the best scan i ever saw with memorex ,not bad
where is the memorex? as forkendave had a verb in his scan above you. im confused but i get that way easily. is it live or is it memorex???
Youve been staring at lovely adriana lima too much there buddy. Your eyesight might be going.. LOL
Die CMC Mag!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2006 @ 18:08
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Senior Member
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21. February 2006 @ 19:12 |
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Maxburn, he's speeking of the 4 year old CMC scan you posted higher up on the page (a few posts back). I've got to say that really is a pretty dang good scan for being 4 years old. Especially for CMC. I guess you can always find that needle in the haystack.
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. February 2006 @ 19:21 |
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Yes there's no real point in arguing with someone like that. Obviously the "entity" to which you refer is of high intellect. However, he is flawed in his logic. He generalizes that all problems with CMC Mag are due to firmware being out of date or media incompatibility. He couldn't possibly provide empirical evidence to that effect, at least not on the scale of DocTY, Mort81, Alkohol, yourself, and the rest of the gang. They have 1,000's of successful burns under their belt. They've used every type of media under the sun. That person's problem is while he's exteremely intelligent, he's used to winning arguments against lesser opponents. He's rarely if ever confronted with someone with the mental capacity to call him on his BS. While it's good to be smart, if you never run into anyone smarter than yourself, you'll end up like the "entity" in that thread. Running into someone who trumps your intellect is a humbling experience. But if you know someone is smarter than you (at least in a particular area) ,try to learn from them. I enjoy conversation with people of high intellect. It's good to be wrong now and again. If you're never wrong, you'll never work to expand your knowledge base. I fear the entity in that thread, has fallen into that trap. Cheers!
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. February 2006 @ 20:02 |
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Quote:
Running into someone who trumps your intellect is a humbling experience.
have yet to have this happen to me, LOL j/k~!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA, sorry, that was a perfect setup, i had to knock em' down~ :)
Quote:
If you're never wrong, you'll never work to expand your knowledge base.
i completely agree there, even i've been "wrong" a few times about Taiyo Yuden when i first started out; someone pointed out my mistake and i have since improved upon my knowledge and experience to be CERTAIN 100% about what i say in regards to Taiyo Yuden now...we all start somewhere, but to keep an "open mind" about media and quality is admirable, but to dispute something that WORKS WELL for one user over the other, is a lost battle...the pudding comes down to the FACTS that support it, if you are lacking this supporting evidence, then you have NO validity in your claims...honestly, thousands of users can't be "wrong" or have non-compatible burners, regardless of firmware or not...it all boils down to FACTS (ie. Nero scans, kprobe, dvdinfopro, what have you...)
CMC MAG has NOT faired well after extensive testing by MANY different users, on very different setups using various different burners/firmware/software...i personally have been "burned" by CMC MAG too, 3 months later as a matter of fact, complete dye degredation to the point of NON-PLAYBACK status in various standalone dvd players...even DVD Decrypter could NOT re-rip these backups onto my harddrive, and that was using "ignore read errors" ticked...hours later, just too many errors to continue...
well, we all have our own "specialities" to contribute here on AfterDawn, obviously, being a good "debater" is not something that is very helpful to ANYONE on here seeking assistance with a 'tech-related' issue...there are quite a few very intelligent members here, who's grasp of the english language is even well beyond my own (Jamzbond); but we have to help as much as we can in the best way WE, as individuals, know how, fueling flame wars is not necessary...
docTY~
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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Senior Member
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21. February 2006 @ 22:23 |
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@beltline
That 4 year old CMC i posted was on a Vebatim Data Life Plus -R disc, not memorex. Still, a CMC is a CMC.
@kivory666
Well said doc.
@Tokijin
We are probably wasting our typing on that one, but i oppose it publicly to let anyone reading that thread know that we ADrs will try to help them, if they listen to us. Follow the latest "i know better, dont ask why, just do it like i say so" person, and expect the same thing to happen to all cult followers. They loose something.
Killer Kitty and I feel as Kahn said in Star Trek II Wrath of Kahn about CMC discs "No, the game's not over. You can't get away. TO the Last i will grapple with thee. From hell's heart i stab at thee, For hates sake, i spit my last breath at thee."
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. February 2006 @ 02:31 |
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Lol. Yeah people like that are their own worst enemy. They won't accept they're wrong no matter how many people tell them otherwise. The same holds for egos as people: "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."
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ERICST
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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22. February 2006 @ 13:36 |
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Just got back with a 50 pack of Sony that was in the Best Buy add for $14.99. Did a test on them and they came up as Taiyo Yuden co.ltd
They did have the MIJ on the label.I would have pass if it dint.
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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22. February 2006 @ 20:14 |
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more scans after they updated clonedvd 2 ,pretty good
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. February 2006 @ 20:15
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Member
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23. February 2006 @ 11:12 |
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Why exactly are we posting newly burned scans to prove a DVD media's worth?
When we know what most determines top quality is its ability to play and scan above 90 three years + from now.
So where are all your scans around or over 2 years old.
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Senior Member
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23. February 2006 @ 11:38 |
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I'm just looking at aabbccdd's pictures
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Senior Member
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23. February 2006 @ 11:49 |
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@ChrisC586
Me too. If you look very closely, you will see thats a scan of the weatherman movie.. Took me half a dozen looks before i even noticed he had a disc scan in there :)
@ashj
I think that is because all a scan of a 3 year old disc will tell you is how well the media held up over time. That only is a problem if they are stored improperly, or the media dye itself is defective and looses its ability to hold information, sometimes called dye rot, as this gives a good enough description of the problem. Dye rot affects cheaper media. Companies that invest the time, money, research into dyes produce ones that will last over time. How long is really anyones guess, as then you start getting in to: storage, useage, media quality, etc.. lots of variables. A movie that was burned properly on GOOD media with an inital scan in the 90's should remain in the 90's under ideal conditions for the rest of its life, and that could be longer than yours. But, we are always advancing technology, so who is really going to be watching DVDs 90 years from now?? If we keep on advancing, the DVDs we are using now will be outdated in 5 years or less. We could still use them, but there is always going to be something much better over the horizon..
and many ppl just got in to DVD burning, so they cant produce scans. Also 2 year old scans is on 2 year old media.. These formulations and ways of producing DVDs gets modified over time. Like the speed increases. Now the top stuff is rated 16x soon that will be 18x, improvements. And please remember, these are HOME tests, we are not trying to produce an exact science, then we would have to wear white lab coats, and monkeys would be involved.. Scans tell us something somewhat repeatable in your own home, using common equipment to to tests, measurements.. What we get out of this is up to us, but for me, good quality nero scans 90+ ALWAYS produce perfect playback, and bad scans always produce playback problems.. Thats enough science for me and most ppl.
and besides, if we didnt have disc scans, we would never get to see aabbccdd's screen shot. Now i know why its so hard for aabbccdd to work. Theres too much distraction going on for me to concentrate, if that were my desktop theme.. :)
ireland posted this one in another thread
Die CMC Mag!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2006 @ 12:15
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Member
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23. February 2006 @ 12:13 |
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@maxburn
ALL dvd media 'dye layer' deteriorates overtime that includes Taiyo Yuden's/Verbatims etc.
What a scan of a disc over 2 years old will tell you is the deterioration rate of that media (generally speaking).
Even stored in optimal conditions (dark/Upright/Cool environment) won't stop deterioration over a number of years.
So grading newly burned DVD media is only a way of 'weeding out' poor media at the offset.
Good longevity media is only proven by media which scans well two or more years later.
edit* The topic is about the best media and how to prove it is the best media,
I have a number of scans around 2 years and the best way of identifying good media is constant batch scan's (keeping a record),
yes media changes but you want to notice longevity problems more than instant burning success
......and you won't do that posting scans of newly burned dvd's.
I'll let you get back to your, scientific birdwatching. :p
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2006 @ 12:32
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Senior Member
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23. February 2006 @ 12:39 |
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@ashj
Quote:
So grading newly burned DVD media is only a way of 'weeding out' poor media at the offset.
Good longevity media is only proven by media which scans well two or more years later.
Yes, i agree with you. and the top quality makers you listed will stand the test of time. Cheap crap like CMC wont, except on very rare cases where they got disc manufacture correct for that one disc out of millions..
so is there any disc you like? and who makes it BTW? just curious,
and why dont you produce scans of those. im sure i could put some up, but im doing scans to see how well i burned that movie, and if i need to burn it again, not really how well it will stand up to the test of time, thats not what a pio/pif scan is trying to tell me. Yes you can use this test on any age DVD, and it will tell you if you can expect playback problems.. Longevity tests are a whole different thing best left to the company that produces the disc. I trust the good manufactures on the longevity part. You want to watch a vhs tape i got?, its a lot older than 2 years, more like 20, kinda grainy, but its held up to the test of time.. , now where did i toss that VCR?? LOL
no, really you go ahead on your mission, whatever it is. dont mind me, im crazy..
funny how a scan of crap media produces low quality scores/high errors on initial scans, and they dont last anything like 2 years down the road to scan later. I draw a correlation to that. I see higher errors in crap media, and less in good manufacturers like Ty and Verb. Thats good enough for me. You buy and use whatever you want though. Im sticking with what i know will withstand the longevity test, good media. And longevity is only one measurement. If you dis-agree with the me, thats fine. i have no problem with that. as a matter of a fact, ive probably said too much, so ill just leave now before i get into trouble.
Die CMC Mag!!!
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Senior Member
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23. February 2006 @ 12:51 |
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I actually would like to see a thread (and have asked previously) of older scanned DVD's. I have set some of mine aside that I have scanned to rescan a year from the original scan. I want to see if there is significant deteriation. Then continue to scan again the year after that. Obviously this test can't be done with older dvd's. But I would still like to see some of the 2+ years old scans of different media.
Also if you guys keep posting them pictures, my wife isn't going to let me play here no more. She was looking over my shoulder the other day when I was reading one of aabbccdd's post and gave me a dirty look. Now you've got Maxburn doing the same thing. After looking at his - I CAN'T CONCENTRATE!!!!!
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Member
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23. February 2006 @ 14:35 |
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@ Maxburn
I use/used Maxell (ritek G04/ G05, R03,Maxell002) Taiyo Yuden (TYG02, Yuden000T03) Verbatim (MC004,TYG02) and other various media.
Media is only acceptable if it shows little signs of deterioration over a longer timeframe.
In batch scans some Taiyo Yuden have dropped from 97% initial scan to 90% over a two month period (these have been X16 +R printables).
Purple top Ritek 4X DVD-R (ritek G04) has at this juncture given me the most sustainable results thus far, and I really hope TY and verbs etcs will outdo them.
But scanning newly burned DVD's won't prove that point.
yes burning on certain types of media has given a lot of members bad results at the point of burning and the thread below covers that
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/114809
If we're talking about the best media to use, again my point is, this can only be proven over time and not with instant burn results.
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