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PS3 Hardware Explained in Detail
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JudyChick
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13. July 2006 @ 14:49 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
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13. July 2006 @ 18:18 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
that was an impressive post, a bit long but sure packed with good info. i think i'll have to read that book again a couple times for everything to make sense.
AfterDawn Addict
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13. July 2006 @ 18:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
i found another addition to why the 360 is slow in loading. the ram is primarily allocated to the gpu, and for the cpu to use it it has to funnel thru the gpu. the bandwidth assesment is great. i tried explaining that to people long ago and no one got me and thought i was wrong. it also shows how much more efficient the ps3 is with rm and how terrible the 360 is, furthing your slow loads.

nice article, lots more for me to read tho. wow..

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2006 @ 18:32

AfterDawn Addict
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13. July 2006 @ 18:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
the second post, the lowest section, is the best ot read first. it shows so many things you really should know. here is something i remember saying and no 360 fan beleived me.
Quote:
The Cell will not, and should not be performing all rendering operations like the E3 2005 demos displayed. It should prove as very interesting that the Cell does perform well at those types of operations since rendering on a CPU offers more flexibility than vertex and pixel shader programs. It is unlikely the Cell would be processing the latter type of shader operation since it would involve the RSX processing an almost finished frame, before giving it up to the Cell, only for the Cell to send it back to continue down the graphics pipeline again with almost no work to be done.

Granted, 3D pipelines are configurable and you can speed up processing through it by disabling unnecessary features that you might have already accomplished on the CPU already. It is likely that developers will do some basic/macro level 3D operations on geometry before passing it off to the RSX to do more time consuming fine detailed processing.

The Xbox360 CPU could do the same thing too and aid in rendering task, but general purpose computing power doesn?t exactly lend itself well to the types of operations it would have to perform, and the vector processing capabilities of the Cell greatly out perform the Xenon in this respect.[/quote.]

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66
Senior Member
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13. July 2006 @ 21:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
good article.

Yeah the ps3 doesn't even need a gpu.The cell can do those operations too.I read somewhere that the only reason sony stuck the gpu in is for developers.The cell is hard to code for but developers already know nvidia and ati code and it's easier for them .This is why when people say ps3 is hard to develope for they really don't know that that's the cpu not the gpu.It may be in this article I didn't read the whole thing.

If you combine the cell and gpu for gfx processing I see the ps3 pushing more polygons than its competition.
AfterDawn Addict
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14. July 2006 @ 03:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
yes, and the cell can easily take over the smaller chucks of data saving on the gpu.

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2006 @ 03:56

AfterDawn Addict
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14. July 2006 @ 07:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
the 360's ram for cpu, since it is shared and not dirrectly connected to the cpu, its already slow as ive said. apparently gddr3 has high latency, a bad thing for general purpose apps because every clock has less data in it (thats how gp is, small random tasks added together). the 360 barely uses anything general purpose, thus causing it to have wasted ability. plus, general purpose issnt too great for overtaking other instructions for any other product, and the cell can do just about anything. i could see a modified cell being a hybrid cpu/gpu in time.

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66
eatsushi
Senior Member

3 product reviews
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14. July 2006 @ 09:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Read the feedback from Beyond3D - the ultimate site for GPU and gaming technology:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31917
Quote:
A couple of points that stick with me.

1) He overlooks the effort of software development. It's all very well saying 'create new techniques to fit with the Cell architecture' and is a philosophy I have applied to support Cell, but that still means adding cost and time to development, meaning for all Cell?s potential, much of it may go untapped most of the time.

2) He hasn't understood Unified Shaders at all, their advantages, and he swiftly fobbed them off saying 'ATi aren't using them in their latest GPU so they're not the way to go.' He's wrong on many points! In a few years I wouldn't be surprised if all GPUs are US!

3) In breaking down system bandwidth, he's right in his analysis of the system's useful totals, but he has totally overlooked the impact of framebuffer activities. Not a single mention was made, and he speaks as though RSX's 22 GB/s GDDR is just going to be used for textures and models. When you consider that the GPU needs lots of memory bandwidth in the rendering of pixels, especially with antialiasing, you see RSX is quite limited, especially compared to PCs. And in Xenos, much of that requirement is nullified by the eDRAM. Where RSX has 22 GB/s for textures, models and framebuffer, Xenos has some 21 GB/s from RAM + 256 GB/s for the same purposes. Xenos will never be bandwidth starved for framebuffer effects, just like PS2.

There were other little niggles too, like saying BRD's transfer speed is an improvement over PS2s, but not considering the RAM capacity has increased moreso. If the drive speed is increased 2x, and the memory increased 8x, your load times will go up by 4x.

As a reference for Cell's architecture, I think it's pretty good. As a fair comparison with XBox360, it's quite poor. It raises some fair points comparing to PC, and IMO doesn't give a particularly balanced view of PS3 specs as a whole. There are some aspects not so good that Ebony hasn't touched upon.

All in all, it's a shame people write these sorts of things to prove a point (PS3 is best) rather than to educate (here's a fair breakdown of PS3, XB360 and PC architectures with pro's and con's to each)
KainX
Suspended permanently
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14. July 2006 @ 09:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
hey judy where do you go to college

currently have these consoles

Gamecube
Xbox
Ps2
Dreamcast
Phantom
Gba
psp
KainX
Suspended permanently
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14. July 2006 @ 11:09 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
i just read your article and thank you for typing up the information that every xbox360 fanboy high school brat dosen't even understand

thank


you



this definitely needs to be stickied

and about john cormack, the main reason he defends the 360 is because most of his franchise is on the pc

currently have these consoles

Gamecube
Xbox
Ps2
Dreamcast
Phantom
Gba
psp

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2006 @ 11:11

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JudyChick
Junior Member
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14. July 2006 @ 14:46 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
KainX: If you're thanking me for typing up the article then sorry but you're mistaken. I didn't write the article - I only linked to it. The writer is a poster at ps3forums who calls himself EbonySeraphim. If you're not thanking me then forget about it.

I also edited the title of this thread after reading the feedback from the pros of Beyond3D - thanks eatsushi for the link. The writer (EbonySeraphim) is a CS undergrad while the Beyond3D members are industry professionals specializing in graphics hardware and software. The former EIC of the site is now the technical marketing manager of ATI Industries. They're the real experts and it would be wise to read their posts carefully. They pointed out the shortcomings of the article thus the thread's name change.

Added: If you read through the thread linked by eatsushi you will see the writer acknowledging his errors to the B3D members. See also his promise to revise his article to be more balanced and to correct his errors.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2006 @ 15:14

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