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Sony not expecting $200 Blu-ray players before next year
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 6 March, 2008
Despite speculation by some that we may see a $200 Blu-ray player before year's end, no such product appears to be in sight. In fact, the Chinese companies responsible for the boom in low priced DVD players a few short years ago don't even seem to have a chance to be licensed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA).
Sony Electronics CEO Stan Glasgow told Gizmodo "I don't think $200 is going ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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hughjars
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8. March 2008 @ 17:04 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
"genuine additional detail"
Now there's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Detail that was never there in the first place can never be genuine.
- Well this is where this 'debate' just gets ridiculous.
It seems that the Blu-ray fanclub have decided to slam this tech as mere upscaling with a couple of bells and whistles tacked on.
It isn't.
Anyone who doesn't get the point about each frame of video having different detail compared to that which the next may have is never going to get this.
I suggest looking up what the forensic cops do to enhance video and pull in genuine new and additional detail from film.
This is the same thing, it's just that now there is a chipset that will do it in real-time on your DVD player.
I am also intrigued about the 960p reference, obviously thats 2 x the USA's much lower 480 line res TV.
In Europe we have PAL 625 lines (which might help explain why upscaling and high def is not the huge leap here as it might be in the USA).
Maybe we'll get the 1080p stuff?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. March 2008 @ 17:05
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error5
Senior Member
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8. March 2008 @ 17:15 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
"genuine additional detail"
Now there's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Detail that was never there in the first place can never be genuine.
Toshiba demonstrated their spursengine or "super resolution" engine at the recent CES. It consisted of using 9 video frames to create one single STILL frame at about double the resolution (960p). This technique is similar to what astrophotographers use to increase the power of their sensors.
However, doing this to produce higher resolution video is another thing. Like one of the mods at avsforums said:
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I can see taking multiple video frames and coming up with a higher resolution still frame. But I'm really skeptical about taking x number of video frames "look ahead" and constructing a single video frame and keep doing this constantly to produce "upconverted" video. At the very least it would take a lot of processing power,
If Toshiba is able to do this with a Cell processor-based engine in the next few years I will be surprised if this player will come in at a "mass market" price. The process could entail years of expensive R&D with players requiring enormous CPU/GPU power and launch prices beyond the reach of j6p. By the time this gets off the ground we could be seeing sub-$200 BluRay players.
What I see happening is Toshiba developing a high-end Cell-based BluRay player with SUC built-in.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. March 2008 @ 17:18
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juankerr
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8. March 2008 @ 18:06 |
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Originally posted by error5:
It consisted of using 9 video frames to create one single STILL frame at about double the resolution (960p). This technique is similar to what astrophotographers use to increase the power of their sensors...
If Toshiba is able to do this with a Cell processor-based engine in the next few years I will be surprised if this player will come in at a "mass market" price.
So you use 9 video frames to produce one single STILL frame.
I can see how this can work with astrophotography where you have minimal or no motion and you have a single reference point.
Try doing this though with high-motion action sequences with multiple camera angle changes and you'll see the problem. You have to have
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2D images converted into exact 3D models with all 8 frames scaled/modified/rotated to match perfectly overlayed in 4D time and interpolated in 3D and broadcast a 2D frame with slightly more detail in less than a half a second without pointers or meshes not encoded into the film.
Right.
That is exactly what you would need to do to interpolate ANY video that moves, zooms out/in, changes camera angle, etc.
Try overlaying 4 frames zooming out or in, and you'll get a blurry mess unless it's scaled correctly.
The Cell broadband engine could be up to the task but I don't see how they could make this work without millions in R&D and an expensive high-end launch player. It won't be cheap and it still won't be HD.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. March 2008 @ 18:11
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hughjars
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8. March 2008 @ 20:21 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
It won't be cheap and it still won't be HD.
- That's just you guessing about this as far as the costs go and I simply think you are wrong to claim it won't be 'true' HD.
Everything I've read about the demo states it is genuine 960p native res HD.
There's a Youtube about it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1qxa1zv5uI
and it does show moving images, not just static images.
....and if people generally don't see high def as worth the premium over upscaled SD DVD and the claims about this being low cost are true then what hope has Blu-ray got against this (better) upconversion tech?
Like I said, there is every chance that Blu-ray not only fails to defeat SD DVD anyways but that tech of this kind renders it utterly pointless (outside of being a medium for PS3 games).
Given that Sony & the BDA have spent up on Blu-ray I'd say this is their nightmare scenario, almost everyone except the devout PS3 crew sticks with SD DVD and, as they replace their regular DVD players with these Super Upconversion players over time, see significant improvements in playing back their regular DVD collections.
Now that would be an irony to make me laugh out loud.
Anyhoo, I prefer to await the reality of this tech before I jump to the self-serving conclusions the Blu-ray fanclub obviously would prefer us all to jump to, thanks.
Like many others I am in no hurry to see how this all works out.
There are plenty of other routes to high def without Blu-ray and all the greedy corporate garbage it brings with it.
They tried to use their Blu-ray tech to f*ck the sharers, so of course I'm happy to look to developments which may well end up f*cking them mightily & royally.
Up the sharers!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. March 2008 @ 20:49
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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9. March 2008 @ 00:34 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
"genuine additional detail"
Now there's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Detail that was never there in the first place can never be genuine.
Who's a Moron?? Ohh... Your post was directed to hughjars. That's ok then. :-P
BTW... This is only meant to be funny. Sometimes these threads could use a little more humour. :-D
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. March 2008 @ 01:08
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nobrainer
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9. March 2008 @ 06:29 |
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There are too many detracting posts on this topic which is classic PR blogger spin. F,Off corporate shills, go back to AVForums and Highdefdigest forums and spew you rubbish there to make ppl believe you are an enthusiast to sell you DRM hobbled warez.
topic = "Sony not expecting $200 Blu-ray players before next year"
there is now no need as the competition to secure the format has been decided and what was decided was Blu-Ray and the extra level of DRM over HD-DvD.
The problem is the mass public do not care about DRM-Ray, as up-converting DVD players on a 40" screen or less, at ten feet looks almost exactly the same as the Blu-Ray HD flick.
blu-ray is a pointless format that is here purely to lock content down with the introduction of, HDCP HDMI, AACS (broken), BD+ (anti consumer blu-ray only), ICT (yet to be turned on 2010 and is only being delayed to sell off all none compliant screens and help the up-take of HD equipment), Rom Mark(blu-ray only DRM also) Global price fixing DRM tool, regional coding that was only on Blu-Ray not HD-DvD.
ICT : http://www.boingboing.net/2006/05/23/hdmi-the-manchurian-.html
ICT : http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060521-6880.html
EFF: http://www.eff.org/work
Originally posted by Cory Doctorow:
Hollywood studios and some CE manufacturers have reportedly entered into an informal agreement to hold off on using the "image constraint token" in HDMI DRM until 2010 or 2012. The image constraint token is a flag in a video signal that instructs receivers, DVD players and other high-definition sources to "down-rez" their output to a low-definition signal when connecting to an "untrusted" screen or other sink.
This is a classic Manchurian Candidate strategy. These devices behave like normal gear until the studios pull the trigger, then they turn on you. The studios talk a big game about wanting to operate in a free market, but then you get stuff like this: back-room deals, restraint of trade, and attempts to subvert the market by fooling customers into buying crippled kit.
The conundrum isn't apparently lost on the consumer electronics industry or Hollywood. According to German-language Spiegel Online, there is reportedly a behind-the-scenes, unofficial agreement between Hollywood and some consumer electronics manufacturers, including Microsoft and Sony, not to use ICT until 2010, or possibly even 2012. Without providing more details, the report suggests that Hollywood isn't exactly happy with the situation, and could very well renege on the agreement, such that it is. But the agreement is there nonetheless, presumably to help the industry transition to HDMI. This could explain why the very same studios that pushed for HDMI and ICT have recently announced that they would not use it for the time being.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. March 2008 @ 07:05
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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9. March 2008 @ 07:37 |
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Originally posted by nobrainer:
There are too many detracting posts on this topic which is classic PR blogger spin. F,Off corporate shills, go back to AVForums and Highdefdigest forums and spew you rubbish there to make ppl believe you are an enthusiast to sell you DRM hobbled warez.
topic = "Sony not expecting $200 Blu-ray players before next year"
there is now no need as the competition to secure the format has been decided and what was decided was Blu-Ray and the extra level of DRM over HD-DvD.
The problem is the mass public do not care about DRM-Ray, as up-converting DVD players on a 40" screen or less, at ten feet looks almost exactly the same as the Blu-Ray HD flick.
blu-ray is a pointless format that is here purely to lock content down with the introduction of, HDCP HDMI, AACS (broken), BD+ (anti consumer blu-ray only), ICT (yet to be turned on 2010 and is only being delayed to sell off all none compliant screens and help the up-take of HD equipment), Rom Mark(blu-ray only DRM also) Global price fixing DRM tool, regional coding that was only on Blu-Ray not HD-DvD.
Ok since you think it is ok to say F Off to whoever it is here you are referring to, I will take the liberty and suggest you do that.
I for one do not want to see your negative BS anymore. Isn't your style of posting against forum rules? I thought format bashing wasn't allowed. I'm not sure if this rule still applies to news threads or not.
Mods, can we please get this rule clarified?
This is a Blu-ray thread and instead of Blu-ray enthusiasts discussing positive things that the future will bring we have to deal with people like you. Go away! Nobody likes you here (except hughjars). I believe that if you haven't got something good or helpful to say about the topic at hand then don't bother posting!
Just to finish off, you said in the aforementioned quote... "F,Off corporate shills, go back to AVForums and Highdefdigest forums and spew you rubbish there to make ppl believe you are an enthusiast to sell you DRM hobbled warez"
Can I ask, what sort of set-up do you have? I am not trying to have a superiority contest, I am simply attempting to discover if you are an AV enthusiast. I know that you don't own a HD player of any kind, not even HD-DVD so I was just curious about the rest.
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Moderator
1 product review
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9. March 2008 @ 07:38 |
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Quote:
F,Off corporate shills, go back to AVForums and Highdefdigest forums and spew you rubbish there to make ppl believe you are an enthusiast to sell you DRM hobbled warez.
It's not your place to make these requests...
Just remember people, even though the war is over the personal attacks still will not be tolerated.
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Senior Member
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15. March 2008 @ 05:55 |
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It just never ceases to amaze me, now that toshiba hd is out, now you can buy one of thier players for $79, you know they are not giving it away, they want to get back at least what it cost them, meaning thats what those damn things really cost to begin with, and yet sony will continue getting thier ridiculious price for thier blue ray, and we the stupid consumer will pay it.
And yet I have seen these blurays and hd's, have seen them on my friends 32" lcd screen, not much of a difference at all, even at a 40", I did see a difference when you get bigger than than, other wise a waste of money.
And last, $ony along with thier drm and rootkits can kiss my American ass.
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