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The Official Cooling Thread!
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. May 2008 @ 15:50 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Would this be the same anandtech review that we used as why you shouldn't trust anandtech?
no its the one that proves that they are not crap.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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18. May 2008 @ 16:07 |
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I still don't believe them. My fanless TRU-A gives me a temp 8C lower than I got with the freezer at max speed, and at a slightly higher voltage too. I now run the voltage lower, but that's not really relevant here. That review is bull.
Oh, and I didn't redo the arctic silver when I plonked this cooler on either...
im: Heh well, this is my second mobo for the same CPU currently, but I've no need to get another for the next CPU I'm planning on adding... :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. May 2008 @ 16:07
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18. May 2008 @ 17:13 |
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abuzar1,
Quote:
Remember they had the Freezer 7 Pro posting better temps than a TRUE. They both had fans BTW, so in my mind they are just unreliable from then on.
And your point is? To me, your point seems to be that either you don't know what you are talking about, or you don't understand it! Not to pick on you, but you have a very bad habit of badmouthing products with little or no knowledge or experience with them!
My temps aren't going to meaningfully get any lower if I replace my AF7 Pro with a TRUE tomorrow. That doesn't mean that I'm saying that the AF7 Pro is better. All it means is that it does an excellent job for me in my given setup, so I don't need a TRUE! Some people right on this thread have had problems cooling, even with a TRUE! Did you think that Anandtech was trying to boost Arctic's sales by making false claims? That's not very likely as it's already a very popular and effective cooler to begin with, and one of the top sellers!
I know I've said this before, but Case Ventilation is everything to your CPU Cooler! Case Ventilation is rapidly becoming an art, and a Black Art at that! We've reached the point with all that goes on inside the case these days, that the addition or change of a single component can and does wreck havoc with the airflow in your case! I had to radically change my case's airflow after I installed the Enzotec Northbridge cooler! Why? Because by adding a simple Chipset cooler it changed where more of the heat was coming from after it was installed!
I turned the cover 80mm fan around to make it an intake instead of an exhaust, running it at 25 cfm at slightly above minimum speed. I had to increase the rear case 120mm to 1400 rpm and about 78 cfm. 1300 rpm would be ideal, but there's an annoying beat frequency between the rear fan and something else in the computer at that speed. one of those annoying R-R-R sounds as the sounds synchronize in and out of frequency! I still maintain about 100 cfm of case airflow, have enough negative case pressure to supply air to the static vents on the side cover and the back of the computer. Case manufacturer's are already starting to experiment with miniature air ducts to better direct the airflow to where it's needed inside the case. I personally hope that they work out as it's a PITA to have to try and control where the air goes the way I'm doing it now. What happens if I decide to upgrade my video card next week? It's back to the drawing board for the airflow, again!
Speaking of the Drawing Board, Right now I'm working on what I call SCCS (catchy, no? LOL!!) or Secondary Computer Cooling System. If I'm successful, it should put an end to most cooling problems that are almost always caused by the differences of "what's in the Box" to begin with! There are thousands of combinations of components and hardware, any of which can cause heat problems! Add to that the hundreds of different cases on the market and it makes for the problem I'm hoping to solve!
BTW! When you read the Anandtech article, did you notice what the Ambient temperature was in the test setup? It was 65F/18C, or down right chilly! Not at all a temperature you are likely to find in the real world home or office. Why is it so surprising that the AF7 Pro did a little better than the TRUE under those conditions? It takes up much less space and interferes with the case airflow less than the TRUE, so why shouldn't it do better? I'm sure if the Ambient temp was a more normal 24-25C that the clear winner would be the TRUE! I can see Anandtech's thinking! 15 or so computers running in the same room generate a lot of heat, "so we'll keep it cool"! In reality setting the thermostat to 75F or so wouldn't have caused any problems at all and would have made for a better, more comparitive test!
Fault Anandtech for not using better judgement on the room temps, yes! But to say that you don't trust them because of the results they simply reported just isn't very fair in this instance!
Respectfully,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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18. May 2008 @ 17:31 |
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yey russ. I <3 Russ!
xD
its true though boozer, you do slag off products very quickly, w.o personally testing them.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. May 2008 @ 17:32 |
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Turbulence or otherwise, my CPU uses a very similar amount of power to the one in that test (77W if Everest is to be believed), and yet by comparison the TRUA is vastly superior, let alone the TRUE. This is conducted with a room temperature of 21ºC, not too far off the test environment they used. I'm not saying the results are made up, but there's definitely something fishy going on.
As for your warbling problem Russ, the main check is to ensure that there aren't any fans that are spinning at the same speed. At the level of volume of my case fans, superposition isn't a problem, but once the fans become a bit more audible it can really get annoying.
At 1300rpm, the 9-blade Silverstone will be putting out at 195Hz, or a G note. If you've a 7-blade fan running at 1650-1700rpm or there abouts, that will also be a G note, and at that speed will be loud enough to noticeably interfere, even if it's an 80mm. That frequency is above that produced by even 10,000rpm hard disks, so you can absolve those.
It could be the PSU fan, but if it's a 120mm fan in a PSU, unless it's got a crazy number of blades it'll be a bit noisy, which doesn't sound like the case for yours - presumably due to mounting methods PSU fans get noisy around 1200rpm for 120mms, and about 1600rpm for 80mms.
Edit: oh, and why is Abuzar getting flak for this? He's not even been in this discussion this time round yet!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. May 2008 @ 17:34
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18. May 2008 @ 19:02 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
Edit: oh, and why is Abuzar getting flak for this? He's not even been in this discussion this time round yet!
Maybe you just didn't notice the post!
abuzar1 said:Quote:
Remember they had the Freezer 7 Pro posting better temps than a TRUE. They both had fans BTW, so in my mind they are just unreliable from then on.
He's the one who brought it up!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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18. May 2008 @ 19:09 |
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sammorris, theonejrs, abuzar1,
guys, why dont we just forget this every happened and make up with each other?
what do you say?
-im1992
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. May 2008 @ 19:25 |
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By all means...
I didn't even see that post from Abuzar though, and even looking now I can't find it!
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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18. May 2008 @ 19:28 |
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I don't know how you guys do it but I have got to have fans and I have them all spinning roughly at 1700-2000 rpm except for my cpu fan which is at around 2100 rpm. I tried all different configurations and have them optimal arrangement now.
I could probably slow them down a bit especially during the cooler months but they are by no means what I would call loud. between the tv (which is usually on), a ceiling fan and a room fan, I can't even hear the pc fans. when the ac kicks on, it drowns out everything.
you guys must not have anything else on in the room or house if your pc fans are too loud. it's 78f in here now and this is where my temps are at according to everest. keep in mind everest uses a tj-max of 105c and it should be 95c so figure 10c lower for the core temps.
my cpu temp is at 33c at idle almost all the time regardless of fan speed (unless I let it get to 80f+ then I have seen it at 35c). the only time the 2100 rpm is beneficial is when it is under load. I do a lot of video encoding so I just leave it at 2100 rpm. it is not loud or at least I don't notice it.
this pc has more 120mm fans on it than my other pc but it is not as noisy as my other pc due to the 40mm fans on the NB and SB of the other one. they are noisy.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. May 2008 @ 20:49
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. May 2008 @ 20:31 |
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If your CPU fan is the scythe monster, then that's what I'd call unbearable... lol but then you're right, I have no other noise sources in my room apart from my server, which is also pretty quiet for obvious reasons.
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2 product reviews
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18. May 2008 @ 23:47 |
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Faulty judgment or whatever, the reviews they post are not reliable for the end user. From what I saw I could conclude that Freezer 7 Pro is almost as good as a TRUE, when it is not so.
When do I quickly badmouth products? What products are we talking about?
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. May 2008 @ 00:28 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
I didn't even see that post from Abuzar though, and even looking now I can't find it!
Page 39 about 1/4 of the way down the page!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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19. May 2008 @ 03:27 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
im1992,
Quote:
do you guys know how the heatpipes work?
is there some kind of gas or water or something in it?
and what exactly does this gas/liquid do?
A typical heat pipe consists of a sealed pipe or tube made of a material with high thermal conductivity such as copper or aluminium. A vacuum pump is used to exclude all fluids (both gases and liquids) from the empty heat pipe, and then the pipe is filled with a fraction of a percent by volume of working fluid, (or coolant), chosen to match the operating temperature. Some example fluids are water, ethanol, acetone, sodium, or mercury. Due to the partial vacuum that is near or below the vapor pressure of the fluid, some of the fluid will be in the liquid phase and some will be in the gas phase.
Best Regards,
Russ
russ,
do heatpipe coolers get less effective after use?
i mean will a CNPS 9700 that is 2 days old perform better than a CNPS 9700 that is 1.5 years old(cleaned up to factory finish)?
does the gas/liquid get old or escape the termination points of the heatpipes?
-thanks
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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19. May 2008 @ 04:33 |
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IM1992,
Quote:
russ,
do heatpipe coolers get less effective after use?
i mean will a CNPS 9700 that is 2 days old perform better than a CNPS 9700 that is 1.5 years old(cleaned up to factory finish)?
does the gas/liquid get old or escape the termination points of the heatpipes?
-thanks
No, the liquid is in there for life! Unless, like my original 9500LED, it springs a leak! Zalman replaced it, BTW, in very short order, so no complaints there! Arctic's warranty is 6 years, so I wouldn't worry about it very much considering the only thing that's ever likely to fail is the fan unless you bounce it down the stairs or something like that. In theory, the cooler itself should outlast you! LOL!! Keep it clean and it could outlast several CPUs. I'm on the same AF7-Pro for the last 4 CPUs now! It's handled a Prescot, Pressler, E4300 and the present E6750 with no problems on 3 different motherboards. No complaints yet!
Just so's you know, the heat pipe has it's roots all the way back to the late 30s early 40s. They were originally used to make Christmas Tree lights bubble! You just placed them over a standard 7w Christmas Tree light bulb and made it look like a Candle that bubbled. The bubbling liquid in the glass tube under vacuum boiled from the heat of the bulb! Same principle, different purpose! Of course the Heatpipes have Capillary tubes or wicks to get the liquid back to the source of the heat as quickly as possible! I still have a set of those old Christmas Tree lights, btw! LOL!!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. May 2008 @ 04:34
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19. May 2008 @ 04:37 |
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o wtf have i started....
yea anandtechs, well i would say you can trust their findings to be comparable to each other in that all their tests are done the same way but i would not expect to get the same results from any of the coolers as they do once you get it home and in a case. if you was running your pc on an open bench all the time then yep it should be about the same if your ambient was also the same but inside a case with like 6 sides never going to happen.
going away from what i wanted to know, even anands charts are a bit outdated as there are quite a few new coolers on the market that aren't on those lists, mine for eg or that new coolermaster monster that claims it too can cool a quad passive.
the only ones i can find that do include mine seem to have it running with a slower fan than a true which isnt a fair comparison in my eyes.
i have been able to find 1 but it only does a few coolers and i really wanted to know how it did compared to as many as possible.
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=556&pageid=4
Originally posted by sammorris:
...Oh, and I didn't redo the arctic silver when I plonked this cooler on either...
i would guess this is because the freezer pro had more paste on it than was really needed and when you just plonked the tru on it some of it was removed(on thye f7p base) and made a perfect contact. over the years i would say i now use about a thrid of the paste i thought was needed when i first started to play about with it, and by trail and error noticed it really is a less is more deal.
heres a tip for you, if you are using silver based paste, pre heat it in some boiling water before aplication, makes it easier to spread (or squash depending on your method) and it starts the curing cycle before you have turned the pc on. it does shorten the shelf life of the tube tho but how long does a tube last you???
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. May 2008 @ 04:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. May 2008 @ 05:37 |
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theone: Man, how do I keep missing them?
im1992: No, or at least they shouldn't. Russ here had one case of a cooler that leaked, but I've never seen that happen before or since.
Marsey: i lost the tube, rather than finished it - I'm not a system builder... :) As for the comment about too much the first time, I wondered that too, but I applied it using the exact method detailed on the Arctic silver site, and when I removed the Freezer the coverage looked pretty spot on...
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19. May 2008 @ 07:37 |
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marsey99,
Just so's you know, the new Arctic Freezers come with the MX-2 on them, so there's no more thick like with the lod ones. It looks perfectly dry, but it isn't, so be careful. Works real good! It's easy to tell as it's a greyish white in color. I used a small paintbrush and applied a thin coating to the CPU and the cooler. I was a tip I picked up from another forum. The theory being that you're more likely to have good contact on both surfaces and less possibility of air bubbles. It also doesn't harden, so there's no real curing involved.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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19. May 2008 @ 08:49 |
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spot on russ, silcon based pastes are great for those reasons, and the fact they are non conductive making them safer for some applications, but sam said he had used as5 so that was why i posted my tip.
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Senior Member
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19. May 2008 @ 10:33 |
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thanks for the help sammorris and russ! i appreciate it!
-im1992
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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Senior Member
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23. May 2008 @ 23:07 |
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hi,
is 1162 rpm good for a 120mm fan?
-thanks,
im1992
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. May 2008 @ 06:37 |
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The 120mm fan will probably push more air, but it'll be a lot quieter doing it, 120mm fans are always better than 80mms if you can fit them in.
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24. May 2008 @ 12:39 |
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I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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30. May 2008 @ 02:59 |
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I finally lapped my CNPS 9500!
it looks awesome
I didn't use any water
just dry sanded it...
haven't tested it out for temperature decrease (or increase) yet...
-im1992
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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30. May 2008 @ 03:11 |
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im1992,
Quote:
I finally lapped my CNPS 9500!
it looks awesome
I didn't use any water
just dry sanded it...
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to sand it, I use a ragwheel on a dental lab lathe and use different grades of Jeweler's Rouge, 3 different grits and it takes about 5 minutes. I've never done one by hand so I am curious as to how long it takes that way.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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30. May 2008 @ 04:03 |
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it took me 2 hours with frequent breaks
I was also studying for my Chemistry final while doing this so it wasn't continuous....
I would say, I was sanding continuouly for a total of 30 minutes max, the rest of the time, I wasted
-im1992
I was born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things got worse.
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