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BDA tells early adopters: We needed to create momentum
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 19 January, 2008
The BDA has explained why early adopters of the format will not be rewarded for supporting the HD format in its earliest stages because the Blu-ray camp needed to "create momentum" in its battle against rival HD DVD.
Frank Simonis, the European chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association, was the one who spoke out about why new standards (such as Profile 1.1) took so long to hit the market.
... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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19. January 2008 @ 18:12 |
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Shouldn't been a issue no one really pay attention to extras just give us the movie's with the best transfers.I own two movies that has this crap & have no reason to use any extra stuff & never will.I didn't on DVD & i wont on Blu.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. January 2008 @ 18:13
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. January 2008 @ 18:12 |
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Heres a thought give people 6-9 months to exchange their old players in for new players at half price, its called customer service... exchanging buggy/bad hardware for new better built stuff....
On a added note do more for the consumer and they will by more than they normally do.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. January 2008 @ 18:15
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seanacean
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19. January 2008 @ 18:44 |
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so sony won the war. now to make up all there lost profit they are telling us if we want the best buy a new player. now we see the light at the end of the tunner when they won.
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. January 2008 @ 18:51 |
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Originally posted by seanacean:
so sony won the war. now to make up all there lost profit they are telling us if we want the best buy a new player. now we see the light at the end of the tunner when they won.
the war is not over yet.
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domie
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19. January 2008 @ 19:57 |
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I can understand why some people might ge annoyed by this but then again, this news wasn't hidden from those who know how to use a search engine and those who bought early players at the sky-high prices should have had the sense to check that out if they feel duped.
As already said by NexGen76, I don't give a toss about the extras in 2.0 etc either - who wants to view a picture in picture when you're looking for the best quality film transfer there is, sounds like pop-up advertising on a website lol. I certainly don't want to see Hermione Grainger telling us how they applied her make-up and blow-dried her hair while watching harry Potter !
On another note, hardware upgrades are inevitable and in many cases you can't firmware update the old equiplment to get the desired effect.
I never heard of anyone successfully complaining to Intel after they bought a single core processor and demanding a dual core replacement because it came out 6 months after they bought their PC !
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. January 2008 @ 20:05 |
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Originally posted by domie:
I can understand why some people might ge annoyed by this but then again, this news wasn't hidden from those who know how to use a search engine and those who bought early players at the sky-high prices should have had the sense to check that out if they feel duped.
As already said by NexGen76, I don't give a toss about the extras in 2.0 etc either - who wants to view a picture in picture when you're looking for the best quality film transfer there is, sounds like pop-up advertising on a website lol. I certainly don't want to see Hermione Grainger telling us how they applied her make-up and blow-dried her hair while watching harry Potter !
On another note, hardware upgrades are inevitable and in many cases you can't firmware update the old equiplment to get the desired effect.
I never heard of anyone successfully complaining to Intel after they bought a single core processor and demanding a dual core replacement because it came out 6 months after they bought their PC !
Frankly what this is about is non standardized spec you buy soemthign only to have it not fully work a year later, things like this is bad for the industry, BR should have worked on its Java and profiles alil better before spaming out the hardware, the same can be said for HDMI in some respects.
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atomicxl
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19. January 2008 @ 20:18 |
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I wonder if the HD-DVD camp will see any benefit from this.
@NexGen76 and Domie, I think you're in the minority on that one. I look at the number of two disc special editions DVDs that are released, or re-releases that only add bonus content and I have to assume that theres enough people out their that are into special features to warrant the product being created. It'd be interesting to see what sells more on average for the same movie: 2 disc edition with special features or the one disc version with only the movie?
If any regular consumer bought a Blu-Ray player, he's gonna feel very jerked when he eventually pays more for a 2 disc version and finds out the 2nd disc won't work in his player. You can say people are stupid, but these stupid people bought your player and aren't gonna forget how you had no qualms or remorse about screwing him just to gain market share.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. January 2008 @ 20:24
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. January 2008 @ 20:55 |
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Originally posted by atomicxl:
I wonder if the HD-DVD camp will see any benefit from this.
@NexGen76 and Domie, I think you're in the minority on that one. I look at the number of two disc special editions DVDs that are released, or re-releases that only add bonus content and I have to assume that theres enough people out their that are into special features to warrant the product being created. It'd be interesting to see what sells more on average for the same movie: 2 disc edition with special features or the one disc version with only the movie?
If any regular consumer bought a Blu-Ray player, he's gonna feel very jerked when he eventually pays more for a 2 disc version and finds out the 2nd disc won't work in his player. You can say people are stupid, but these stupid people bought your player and aren't gonna forget how you had no qualms or remorse about screwing him just to gain market share.
Both have issues with spec updates..but good lord....BR just cant do it right....
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Newbie
1 product review
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19. January 2008 @ 23:31 |
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should have bought a PS3. The writing was on the wall.
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. January 2008 @ 23:59 |
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Is this business speak of saying to the consumer "Screw You Sucker" ?
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. January 2008 @ 00:09 |
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Originally posted by gleone:
should have bought a PS3. The writing was on the wall.
how is it being updated for the new profiles and specs? really I wont be getting one till they put a 4X BR drive in it..... now that and BWC hardware would be worth 400/500!
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vinny13
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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20. January 2008 @ 01:18 |
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As long as the movie plays at 1080P on my Sharp I could care less about the extras. That's why they're called extras. We don't need them.
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Junior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 01:36 |
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Originally posted by vinny13:
As long as the movie plays at 1080P on my Sharp I could care less about the extras. That's why they're called extras. We don't need them.
i just care for the movie itself too or maybe for alternative ends but that's about it and i think that's the way most ppl think ,s top selling what we don't want
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Dat1boi
Junior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 01:56 |
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Ok, so I don't have a ps3 or a BD player, but I just can't help but wonder (and if anyone knows please feel free to let me know) what does this mean for ps3's? I'm sure newer one's will probably just be updated with the update, but what if you have an older system, will it not take full advantage as well. If so it sux to have bought a ps3 back then, no games and you BD player is now out of date.
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ripxrush
Junior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 02:20 |
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hummm sounds VERY Familiar! I remember people buying dvd+ burners with hopes of the dvd- format beign able to be burned in the future with a firmware update! Yes the format war! isnt it lovely! it is frustrating that you cant buy till a next technology is almost out!
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Senior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 03:19 |
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These players will no doubt have only been bought by A/V enthusiast's, or idiots with more money than brains who deserve to be ripped off. The AV/tech enthusiast's will have bought these players knowing full well that they were going to be outdated within months of purchasing them, as everything in that area always is. The only regular consumer's that have a BD player would be the ones with a PS3.
I also couldnt care less about the supposed "features" the updated profiles offer, in fact, I really wouldnt care if the disc had only the main movie as long as its in HD. After all, isnt that the purpose of these new discs, HD movies?
Originally posted by Dat1boi:
Ok, so I don't have a ps3 or a BD player, but I just can't help but wonder (and if anyone knows please feel free to let me know) what does this mean for ps3's? I'm sure newer one's will probably just be updated with the update, but what if you have an older system, will it not take full advantage as well. If so it sux to have bought a ps3 back then, no games and you BD player is now out of date.
Except that 1: The PS3 does have games, and 2: The PS3 has already proven that it can be updated to include support for most (if not all) of the latest profile features.
Quote:
how is it being updated for the new profiles and specs? really I wont be getting one till they put a 4X BR drive in it..... now that and BWC hardware would be worth 400/500!
Why bother with a 4x BD drive? 2x is already the equivalent of a 12x DVD drive, faster is always better (well, at least for technology) but is that speed really necessary and/or going to be able to be utilized by the rest of the hardware (this is in the case of PS3, nothing else). Does anyone here know whether it would be possible for the PS3 drive to be upgraded to 4x via firmware update?
As for backwards compatibility, word is that Sony are advertising for someone to work on programing that kind of thing, so it might happen in the near future.
"This is how it works. Whatever you sink, we build back up. Whomever you sue, ten new pirates are recruited. Wherever you go, we are already ahead of you. You are the past and the forgotten, we are the internet and the future."-Brokep
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. January 2008 @ 04:07 |
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Originally posted by Andrew691:
These players will no doubt have only been bought by A/V enthusiast's, or idiots with more money than brains who deserve to be ripped off. The AV/tech enthusiast's will have bought these players knowing full well that they were going to be outdated within months of purchasing them, as everything in that area always is. The only regular consumer's that have a BD player would be the ones with a PS3.
I also couldnt care less about the supposed "features" the updated profiles offer, in fact, I really wouldnt care if the disc had only the main movie as long as its in HD. After all, isnt that the purpose of these new discs, HD movies?
Originally posted by Dat1boi:
Ok, so I don't have a ps3 or a BD player, but I just can't help but wonder (and if anyone knows please feel free to let me know) what does this mean for ps3's? I'm sure newer one's will probably just be updated with the update, but what if you have an older system, will it not take full advantage as well. If so it sux to have bought a ps3 back then, no games and you BD player is now out of date.
Except that 1: The PS3 does have games, and 2: The PS3 has already proven that it can be updated to include support for most (if not all) of the latest profile features.
Quote:
how is it being updated for the new profiles and specs? really I wont be getting one till they put a 4X BR drive in it..... now that and BWC hardware would be worth 400/500!
Why bother with a 4x BD drive? 2x is already the equivalent of a 12x DVD drive, faster is always better (well, at least for technology) but is that speed really necessary and/or going to be able to be utilized by the rest of the hardware (this is in the case of PS3, nothing else). Does anyone here know whether it would be possible for the PS3 drive to be upgraded to 4x via firmware update?
As for backwards compatibility, word is that Sony are advertising for someone to work on programing that kind of thing, so it might happen in the near future.
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Actauly its slower than 12X DVD (DVD 12X is 126Mbits ,BR2X is 72Mbits mind you thats max data rate and its all depnds on the spin speed and other factors andy ou can garrente a normal max speed of 30-40% below the top speed, still its slow enough to worry about the games coming in 2-3+ years,don't have the worry about the 360 it has one foot and arm in the grave >>)....
But speed is still an issue..add the constant move of game tech to be bigger "better" it really dose need a speed boost and the sooner the better with the PS3 gunning for a longer life span, if I had to chose a 60GB unit for 350-400 would be better than a 4X unit with no BWC hardware unless they put more effort into BWC.... still they have room to improve, I wish they would drop the extra POS unit and and lower the 500 to 400 and lock that price for the next 4 years I'd rather buy once and have a solid console than the one way "upgraders" plan MS offers :P
I wish they would get the major revisions dealt with the sooner the better....the better...look at the games in 4ish years double the real size and loading times I think getting in a 4X drive now would be worth the price and finish up the costly revamps.
I can see them revamping HDMI to the flavor of the day every year or so but thats not a biggy.
For me if on a scale of 1 to 10 for the PS3 BD profiles is a 10, drive speed is a 5,BWC is a 3 price is a 2 ,control over the control is a 1.....I guess "new" games is a 4 LOL I'll be buying PS2 games for the next 2-3 years :P
I want the PS3 to be the best console it can be, polishing BWC is a must doing something about drive speed is another while not a issue right now this minute it will come and when they change it it will piss off ALOT of people, best to get it done now.
Everything else on the PS3 is falling into place hardware is well built so far, games are coming ,online is shaping is up prices are coming down, production costs are coming down.
One thing that would gain my complete attention on is full customizable support of keyboard and mouse for all PS3 gaming,I don't care if I ave to by their hardware for it I want this done they can stick saxix in the mouse and charge 80$ for it for all I care there is no reason to have full control customization in the PS3/WII/360/X menu, no subsuties can replace full customizing,if I can get the mouse conpad thing(its half a pad with one of the sticks is replaced by a mouse) for 100$ with full pre game customization or full reconfiguration built into the device I will go with that but half/quater customization..pointless.....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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Senior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 04:23 |
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Quote:
Actauly its slower than 12X DVD (DVD 12X is 126Mbits ,BR2X is 72Mbits mind you thats max data rate and its all depnds on the spin speed and other factors andy ou can garrente a normal max speed of 30-40% below the top speed, still its slow enough to worry about the games coming in 2-3+ years,don't have the worry about the 360 it has one foot and arm in the grave >>)....
Thats the thing though, 12x requires a insane spin speed. The disc drives make huge amounts of noise, me burning DVD's at 4x is loud enough. And the likelihood of the drive actually reaching that peak speed is near zero, 2x is a alot easier of a speed to reach and maintain. So I would still consider a 2x BD drive faster than 12x DVD.
Supposedly the disc drive in the 360 makes a good 90% of the noise, alot more than the fan. Thats just not right IMO.
"This is how it works. Whatever you sink, we build back up. Whomever you sue, ten new pirates are recruited. Wherever you go, we are already ahead of you. You are the past and the forgotten, we are the internet and the future."-Brokep
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. January 2008 @ 04:24
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badkrma
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20. January 2008 @ 06:26 |
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WOW... that has gotta hurt. Once again companies use the consumer with no intent to reward them once the companies' plans come to fruition. And no I'm not blaming early adopters completely but, you take your risks on new products especially prices and compatibility. I remember I almost bought a $8000 DLP tv just a couple of years ago, now I see DLP ain't worth shit. And just last year I almost bought a $4000 tv. I'm still waiting and it looks promising. Prices are coming down and the features are increasing. Maybe next year I will buy.....
P.S. I guess my first statement you could see two ways, early adopters get left out from new innovations of the same product and late comers see a dramatic decrease in price and increase in features. hmmmm.... vicious circle...
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juankerr
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20. January 2008 @ 06:40 |
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Early adopters also have the disposable income to be early adopters. When an early adopter buys the first model of a player he definitely knows that it's not going to be his last player purchase. Remember the first DVD players were also about $1K and didn't even decode DTS and many had problems with dual layer DVD's.
I know of a couple of people here in these boards who have the first models from Panasonic and Sony which were Profile 1.0 and cost ~$1K. These guys now have their eyes set on the upcoming Profile 2.0 players that were announced at CES 2008 that have all the advanced features such as internal decoding of Dolby True HD and DTS HD-MA, 7.1 analogs, and Silicon Optix Realta processing.
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iamgq
Junior Member
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20. January 2008 @ 09:09 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by seanacean:
so sony won the war. now to make up all there lost profit they are telling us if we want the best buy a new player. now we see the light at the end of the tunner when they won.
the war is not over yet.
But the ending is beginning...
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hughjars
Suspended permanently
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20. January 2008 @ 12:48 |
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Naturally the Blu-ray liars continue to lie to people and pretend this is only about 'extras'.
It isn't.
This is nothing to do with movie 'extras'
(and to pretend it is just shows the condescending exploitation of non-techy people.
How could it be, the 'profile 1.0' players were never meant to be able to access those bits anyway.....where's the news or story in that?)
This is all about whether your (expensive) 'profile 1.0' & 'profile 1.1' Blu-ray stand-alone can properly play the coming 'profile 2.0' discs at all.
The part of the original interview/article the Blu-ray PR liars always avoid as best as they can is this bit -
In addition, the BD-J interactivity layer, based on Java, has continued to evolve since the introduction of Blu-ray Profile 1.0.
This means that early players may have a buggy implementation and perhaps more importantly, they are not powerful enough to play the latest films properly.
.......and let's not forget the BDA's arrogant sneering closing comment about this, to hell with the influx of new owners attracted by the pre-X-mas cut-price 'profile 1.0' Sony S300 & Samsung BDP 1400 they apparantly "knew what they were getting into".
Still, when they find they have to buy again (when/if a range of 'profile 2.0' stand-alones ever appear) they can always just be so glad that their cash was needed to create 'momentum'.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. January 2008 @ 13:01
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20. January 2008 @ 14:42 |
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I think it is too late for that. They already have deadlines in place for the current profiles. Right now no new player announced can be less than profile 1.1. I don't know when 2.0 will be the lowest required but it will come with the natural progression of things.
Just look at DVD. For the first 3-4 even 5 years you had players that couldn't decode DTS, play progressively, play DVD +/-R, etc. Now go out there and find a player that doesn't do all that. While the BD specs aren't complete, most CE's seem to be trying to stay ahead of the curve. For those that are behind, demand will determain how fast they improve their players.
Toshiba wasn't all roses and peaches either. A very large chunk of their install base can't even play 1080p, which is a much bigger requirement than online shopping or PiP IMO.
Besides, in 2 years or so, when BD starts to really build up a userbase, we'll be in the same position DVD was around that time and all players will be supporting all of the features that discs are being produced with. And each one of those players will probably sell more than all the current players combined. The early adopter and their first player will be a memory.
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rosedog
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20. January 2008 @ 14:47 |
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This should really be a non-issue if you purchased an extended warranty. New system/features are out? Word!?! OH SNAP, BAM, EXTENDED WARRANTY BEEOTCHES!!!. In and out with Kool-Aid smile on face.
At least that's how I feel after I do an exchange at Best Buy. For some reason it almost feels like money in the bank.
I'm surprise people still haven't taken this up yet and NO it does not need to be broken to do the exchange.
I started out with a cynder block sized PS2 till I finally got it down to the slim and I would have had a PS3 soone had I not let my warranty lapse by a month ;(
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. January 2008 @ 14:51
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juankerr
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20. January 2008 @ 15:52 |
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At least something is being done to ensure that BD-J issues are kept to a minimun:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/20/blu...y-disc-quality/
Quote:
Barely a month after Microsoft revealed the Xbox 360 HD DVD Emulator in hopes of speeding up development of HDi, we're seeing a new company emerge with bolstering Blu-ray Disc quality as its top priority. Of course, anyone paying attention over the past few weeks would realize that something like this is sorely overdue. Reportedly, BluFocus is already working with a number of studios in order to ensure that BD-J / BD Live functionality is properly implemented and that discs arrive to end-users sans issues. The company (accurately) points out that mastering Blu-ray titles is a much more involved process than mastering a vanilla DVD, and considering just how much interactivity is being mixed in, there's a lot more room for error than in days past. Notably, we're not told exactly which studios BluFocus is currently working with, but here's to hoping we find fewer reasons to plead for replacement discs in the future.
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