|
Shrink vs Rebuilder
|
|
Member
|
16. April 2009 @ 16:09 |
Link to this message
|
I have used shrink for a long time. I heard great things about rebuilder and I downloaded rebuilder and set it up and did 3 or 4 moviesw with it.
Here is my issue, explain to me how rebuilder is better than shrink?
I use DVDFab or ANYDVD to decode and then shrink or rebuilder and copy to disc using Nero or ImagBurn.
I think that the quality is a little better with rebuilder but the time is much shorter with shrink. If I use shrink I can do a movie in an hour.
With rebulder, I would say it is more like 2 1/2 to 3 hours.
I am not being a wiseguy, I just need to hear the reasons rebuilder is better than shrink? You guys have the expertise and I am sure can tell me things I don't know or would never think of. Honestly, educate me so I can do this the right way
Amaze35708
|
|
Advertisement
|
 |
|
|
Junior Member
|
16. April 2009 @ 19:07 |
Link to this message
|
hey there ...
i juvst dwnloaded it my self and have a few questions about it too.
but i saw your post and just had to say that theres a huge difference between transcoding and encoding.
shrink transcodes and rebuilder encodes. its like it actually rebuilds the movie to fit in dvd not juvst compress it to fit.
sorry i couldnt give a great definition for transcode and encode but i think you kinda might be able to get the point.
and from what ive read - even what you wrote above - the difference in the end product is clear.
take care.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2009 @ 19:10
|
Member
|
16. April 2009 @ 20:31 |
Link to this message
|
Thanks. I am still not clear on the transcoding and encoding but the analogy of shrink squeezing the movie and reducing quality makes sense.
Some people have talked about how the quality of a movie done with shrink and rebuilder is significantly different on HD or larger screen tv's. Has anybody had that experience?
Amaze35708
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
16. April 2009 @ 23:36 |
Link to this message
|
This has been discussed many times. Try it on a movie that needs a considerable amount of compression and compare.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
|
Senior Member
|
17. April 2009 @ 00:08 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
Background:
Over the course of the past couple of years DVD ripping techniques have changed dramatically. Newer "one click" programs have made backing up a DVD a fairly simple process... but there is a significant trade-off. The quality that can be attained by even the best of these programs is poor in comparison to original techniques that used Cinemacraft Encoder, HC Encoder, QuEnc, or other top-notch encoders. The reason is simple. When using one of these encoders the picture is rebuilt from scratch and optimized for the resulting bitrate. One-touch transcoders usually drop DCT coefficients or change quantization info in order to lower the bitrate. This can result in pixelation and poor overall picture quality.
This is a quote from jdobbs author of DVD Rebuilder.
|
Member
|
17. April 2009 @ 09:38 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thanks for the advice. I think I will take one movie and run it through shrink and run the same movie through dvdrebuilder and take a look at the quality. Thanks again
Amaze35708
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
17. April 2009 @ 10:33 |
Link to this message
|
|
Try a movie that's around 2 1/2 hours long.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
|
Member
|
17. April 2009 @ 11:48 |
Link to this message
|
|
Will do
Amaze35708
|
|
HappysDVD
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
19. April 2009 @ 16:58 |
Link to this message
|
Im lost here as well ... are you all just copying a movie? Or converting files to put on a dvd? If your just copying a movie why use all these programs? Im not trying to be a smart*** but i use only 1 program to copy movies i have.. DVDFab Plat... I dont care how big the movie, it will decode it, shrink it and slap it on a DVD5... I havent made a coaster yet.. And i am using Vista32? If u dont want to shrink it it will also put it on a dvd9... Im just wondering why you would go through all these steps...
Keep em Burning.
HappysDVD
|
AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
|
19. April 2009 @ 18:49 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by HappysDVD:
Im lost here as well ... are you all just copying a movie? Or converting files to put on a dvd? If your just copying a movie why use all these programs? Im not trying to be a smart*** but i use only 1 program to copy movies i have.. DVDFab Plat... I dont care how big the movie, it will decode it, shrink it and slap it on a DVD5... I havent made a coaster yet.. And i am using Vista32? If u dont want to shrink it it will also put it on a dvd9... Im just wondering why you would go through all these steps...
picture quality,
dvdfab plat (whic I purchased) uses a transcoder, dvd rebuilder uses a encoder, a quantum jump in picture quality over transcoders, and that is what it is all about.
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
 |
Senior Member
|
19. April 2009 @ 19:09 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by iluvendo:
Originally posted by HappysDVD:
Im lost here as well ... are you all just copying a movie? Or converting files to put on a dvd? If your just copying a movie why use all these programs? Im not trying to be a smart*** but i use only 1 program to copy movies i have.. DVDFab Plat... I dont care how big the movie, it will decode it, shrink it and slap it on a DVD5... I havent made a coaster yet.. And i am using Vista32? If u dont want to shrink it it will also put it on a dvd9... Im just wondering why you would go through all these steps...
picture quality,
dvdfab plat (whic I purchased) uses a transcoder, dvd rebuilder uses a encoder, a quantum jump in picture quality over transcoders, and that is what it is all about.
Amen.
|
Member
|
19. April 2009 @ 20:15 |
Link to this message
|
|
I got - picture quality. Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate the time to help out a newbie
Amaze35708
|
|
imhay
Newbie
|
25. April 2009 @ 18:26 |
Link to this message
|
I'm signing on too. Gotta say "Shrink" has worked great IMO - I just watched two "shrunk" movies using Up Conversion player and HDMI link to our projector to screen image 120 inch diagonal - B. Willis in Whole Nine Yards and Shirley MacLaine in My Geisha - and they both look clear, very sharp - plenty of huge screen WOW.
If Rebuilder will give me significant image improvement that can be easily seen I'd love it!
Can I use Fab decrypter and then process the result with Rebuilder?
I've got a Fab decrypted dvd in a file ready to go - I've printed the instructions and am ready to install Rebuilder and associated utilities.
Looking forward to the result!
|
Moderator
|
25. April 2009 @ 18:45 |
Link to this message
|
You need to run the movie files thru a free program called Vobblanker as DVDFab doesn't produce clean enough rips for Rebuilder. Rebuilder can take a long time, depending on what CPU you have, and if the files aren't clean enough Rebuilder could barf an hour or few into encoding. So it's advised to always run the files thru Vobblanker if you intend to then use DVD Rebuilder.
Vobblanker is a daunting looking program but for cleaning you just point it at the directory where DVDFab dumped it's files, select an output directory and hit Process. Let it complete then point Rebuilder at the newly cleaned files and let Rebuilder work it's magic.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
|
imhay
Newbie
|
25. April 2009 @ 18:55 |
Link to this message
|
Thanks - Great I just downloaded Vobblanker.
Now to be sure I understand for going forward which is the best decrypter to use with rebuilder and can you show a link?
Thanks!!!
|
Moderator
|
25. April 2009 @ 19:00 |
Link to this message
|
There's only really DVDFab and AnyDVD and i only uses DVDFab, never needed to use AnyDVD past it's 21day trial some years ago. What CPU do you have by the way ?
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
|
|
imhay
Newbie
|
25. April 2009 @ 19:59 |
Link to this message
|
Okay
If I understand correctly I process with Fab decrypt and then clean the files with vobblanker - yes?
The PC with XP Pro is an older one - chip is P4/3.6 - only 2/Gig of RAM - it's always been strong enough to render a TON of video editing but the video card helps with RAM onboard.
Should this be enough for Rebuilder if I'm not in a hurry?/
Thanks
|
Moderator
|
25. April 2009 @ 20:04 |
Link to this message
|
Yep, rip with DVDFab -> Vobblank -> DVD Rebuilder -> enjoy superior video quality :)
Ouch, a P4 will chug with Rebuilder, but the quality will be the same as anything faster, and the beauty of Rebuilder is the quality, which more than makes up for the time it takes.
I used to use an AMD Athlon 2800XP as my main pc a couple years ago, and that would take about 5 hours (!) for main movie mode in DVD Rebuilder; now i'm using a Quad Core and main movie mode is approx. 45 minutes and a full disc episodic is only an hour. I run Rebuilder a few times a week, i very rarely run DVD Shrink anymore as Rebuilder wipes the floor with it and everything else. But Shrink is still a great program, i only use it for movies that require less than 90% video compression and to be honest it's not worth it to me to even bother with Shrink for that as Rebuilder doesn't take too long
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 20:13
|
AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
|
25. April 2009 @ 21:15 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
and the beauty of Rebuilder is the quality, which more than makes up for the time it takes.
Could not agree more. It's worth the extra time, every time.
|
|
imhay
Newbie
|
25. April 2009 @ 22:04 |
Link to this message
|
Thanks Creaky for taking the time to explain the flow of the process.
I've thought about upgrading PC but so far no application has come along compelling enough for me to take the step. I've always built our desktops - takes a lot of time and trouble - I'm also amazed that I can buy an off-the-shelf PC with an AMD quad chip/10G-RAM/B.Ray Drive and T-byte HDD for under a grand - WOW how cheap processing power has become - so maybe for movie file fun I'll talk myself into spending the cash.
This is all really interesting and I'll do a couple of tests over the next few days and then side-by-side compare the original dvd with the Shrink copy with the Rebuilder copy using the projector and big screen for the comparison.
I don't doubt or deny the difference I'm reading about here - I just have been so pleasantly surprised and content with the visual result of "shrunk" files via Up Conversion player on a very large screen it's hard to imagine being able to achieve that much of a significant and visible enhancement.
I'll post back if you guys don't mind.
Thank You again
|
Moderator
|
26. April 2009 @ 06:14 |
Link to this message
|
|
Good stuff, keep us posted.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
|
|
imhay
Newbie
|
26. April 2009 @ 09:31 |
Link to this message
|
Thinking about the overall issue during usual bouts of mid-night sleeplessness the question of pre-burn quality process (Rebuilder)versus post-burn quality processing (player Up Conversion or Viudeo Processor)and the associated costs.
Using "shrink" level file processing that works easily, quickly and well on my out-of-date but still capable for most things PC if I take regular dvd player output for my 720p front projector and attempt to stretch the native 480 lines of the dvd file content across a 120 inch diagonal it looks simply lousy - awful - pixelated - crummy.
But if I take that same "shrunk" file and play with decent Up Converting player with HDMI to the PJ the added resolution and whatever other "tricks" the Up Converting the image processer does the results are a 120 inch diagonal clean looking darn near HD presentation of the video (at least to our old eyeballs and in the final analysis the eyes always have the last vote).
I know someone who whispers in my ear that if I opt to buy a DVO Edge video processor the visual result will be significantly better than simple player Up Conversion and the Edge is about 1/2 the price of a good PC upgrade.
I guess I typed all of the above to ask those with a ton more experience and expertise than I this question.
As video processing evolves and matures can after burn video processing give about as good a result as before burn processing - like keep on "shrinking" and manipulate for quality enhancement at the other end of the viewing process??
Final Trivial - my son the Computer Genius and big university staff net. engineer has offered to save me the "grinding/cranking" time of my woefully slow PC and do the two experimental shrink versus Rebuilder discs for me for my comparison.
He seems to think it's a silly experiment since he mostly watches downloaded high def. quality processed video movie files that live on one of several media servers in his house that he pulls to his digital tv and/or projector across his high speed home network - I am WAY, WAY to old fashioned to try to go there.
Best to all and Thank Again for patiently answering my questions!
|
|
edwardcr
Newbie
|
29. April 2009 @ 23:42 |
Link to this message
|
Hi
Just discovered this great site while looking for some pointers on using DVD Shrink and DVD Fab!
Hadn't previously heard of DVD Rebuilder - looks great, but as I won't be upgrading my oldish machine for another 3 months or so, I doubt if I would have the patience to wait 4 or 5 hours per dvd. But when I get my quad core - definitely!!
One comment on DVD Fab - it gives you the option of removing the very annoying Copyright warning, but keeping the menus, but with DVD Shrink you can apparently only have both or neither.
Now to my question. Using DVD Shrink it's possible to edit within the Chapters of a DVD (but not very accurately - it would be great to do this down to a frame by frame level).
DVD Fab doesn't allow this - does anyone know of any other software that allows this? Does DVD Rebuilder?
Finally - do the various comments on DVD Rebuilder refer to the free or the Pro version? Is there any benefit in using the Pro version?
Thanks
Edward
|
|
pippocalo
Newbie
|
23. July 2009 @ 03:51 |
Link to this message
|
The question DVDrebuilder vs DVDShrink do not have an unique answer.
First of all it is necessary to say which type of encoder/transcoder you will be use with DVDrebuilder; this because DVDRebuilder is only a GUI and the quality is related to the encoder/transcoder used.
Many peolple use DVDrebuilder with Cinema craft encoder; the best result is obtained with commercial version of Cinema craf encoder and several pass (4-5). But this piece of software is very expensive.
DVDrebuilder used with included transcoder may be poor than DVDShrink with deep analisys and enchanced quality setting.
I use in my experience both program: DVDShrink e DVDRebuilder with CCE SP2.70.
I did had the best results in this way:
- DVDShrink when the compression is very low about 90% and not over 75-80%
- DVDrebuilder when the compression is bigger; you can notice that this choise became the only one when yuo have compression of 50%.
For me the explanation of these results is quite simple.
DVDShrink is an optimized transcoder (with deep analysis on and enanched quality on) and when the requested compression is low it is the best choice. This because a transcoder do not change the compression strategy but only eliminates redundancy.
A real encoder, instead, needs to decode and recode the film with a new compression strategy. The compression strategy is a very complex job and when you use DVDRebuilder the parameter used is a compromise for standard situation.
So...only if the compression is HIgh the encoder with standard strategy will result superior to a transcoder.
Naturally if you are an expert man capable to set all the compression parameter of Cinema craft encoder and optimize over the material to be compressed a real encoder will be always superior to a simple transcoder.....but this is not the real condition.
I hope to be useful
Bye
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
Senior Member
3 product reviews
|
23. July 2009 @ 05:38 |
Link to this message
|
For what its worth.
As far as image quality, I have seen the difference on larger films and would never go back to programs like shrink; I haven?t used it for years, since it stopped being updated.
Not all people see the resulting images the same either, as when I see faults in a picture, such as pixilation in black areas, other people have said they can't see what I'm talking about.
If I'm using up-scaling on a player, then whether it's an original or a rebuild, I would have thought that having the best media to start with will only increase the results, they should always be better if the starting images are better.
I don?t see Rebuilder as hard to use either.
I have AnyDVD HD already, so always have it running in the background.
I then just rip the DVD as a straight image with IMGburn to a HDD.
These images are then mounted with Slysoft Virtual Clonedrive.
Using Rebuilder I work out what audio steams I need to keep, and what if any subtitles, chapter titles etc... and then save each films encode preferences as a project in Rebuilder.
I then run Rebuilder in batch mode when I?m ready, importing the pre-saved projects; the mounted images just show up as the original disks in optical drives, the more films I'm doing the more virtual drives I mount at that time.
That way, I either go out, or to work, or even to sleep and let the whole lot run without me having to do anything.
When done, I simply unmount the images, and start all over with the next batch, as and when required.
I use CCE SP2 BTW.
|
