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Why exactly do you need a mod chip to play back ups?
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unexist
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5. April 2004 @ 00:29 |
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Before I even say anything I just want to note that I have looked around extensively for the anwser to this question for many days. Just today I have sat here from 10PM looking for anwsers, it is now 4:30AM, and while I did find a lot of usefull information by using the search future and search engines still no anwsers to the real questions. I'm sure if I look long and hard enough I can find the anwser, but I have work and other things to do and do not have the time to sit here for hours upon hours every day. I would seriously appreciate any help that I can get from any of you guys. Even if you can't anwser my question, can you at least point me in the right direction as to where I could find it?
I need to know, why do you need to use a modchip to play backups of xbox games? Everything I read says, just because.. or something else along those lines.
I'm thinking can xbox detect writeable media and just choose not to play the game which is on it? If so, how does it detect whether the media is writeable or pressed?
I have read something which suggested that PS2 looks for bad sectors on the cd? Is this the case fox Xbox as well? If so, I dont understand why this is an issue. Can't a burner just burn a bad sectors? If not, why? If you're going to tell me that it automatically corrects them, thats all well good, but hardware should do what it is told to do by software. Even if the auto-correction feature is written in BIOS, since the BIOS can be upgraded can't you just get a version of the BIOS that doesn't have this feature?
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G4MERZO1D
Member
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5. April 2004 @ 00:53 |
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the original M$ Bios only allows original disks and accepts the security on them, but if you were to put a backup in with the M$ Bios running, it will not allow it due to the security...if u get what i mean :S
AMD X2 3800+ 120GB SATA HDD 2047 DDR2 RAM GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 2MB Virgin Cable
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unexist
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5. April 2004 @ 05:33 |
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Forgive me if it seems rude of me to point this out but your explanation, "due to security", doesn't really anwser anything. What kind of security is it? How does x-box tell which disk is original and which is not?
It is 9:37 am and i've been up since 10:00pm yesterday trying to figure this out. It is starting to seriously piss me off. I have to know...
Anybody?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2004 @ 05:35
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G4MERZO1D
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5. April 2004 @ 06:15 |
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why do u HAVE to know?
seems very weird to me..bottom line is you cannot play a backup without some form of modification be it software or hardware
AMD X2 3800+ 120GB SATA HDD 2047 DDR2 RAM GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 2MB Virgin Cable
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Senior Member
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5. April 2004 @ 12:33 |
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UNEXIST the answear is simple its macrovision if it detects macrovision security (which also matches the coding of the disk) it will allow you to play with no mod, if it does not detect the correct code then you cant(your chip removes the code so you can copy it in the first place, and you cannot put it back unless u know the source code which has 1024 bit encryption)
You are reading a mindless signature, please stop reading it now it is mindless, one can only presume you are mindless since you are still reading this mindless signature, Oh my god get a life you mindless person, whats the matter with you, dont you have a girlfreind? mindless mindless mindless
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5. April 2004 @ 21:01 |
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and for the last part of the question, yeah you can flash a new bios to the xbox and do it that way, but you need a chip to do it, or one of the game exploits. perhaps you should check out the tutorials section of xbox-scene.com, might find even more good info there that will help answer your question.
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore) |
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unexist
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5. April 2004 @ 22:18 |
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More questions for you guys as nothing clear about what anybody is saying at all.
For instance,
"UNEXIST the answear is simple its macrovision if it detects macrovision security(which also matches the coding of the disk) it will allow you to play with no mod, if it does not detect the correct code then you cant
Thanks for your anwser, I appreciate that you took the time to reply but that still doesn't actually explain anything at all.
What is this "it" that you are talking about? You go on about "it" detecting macrovision security. What is "it"?
How do you know that macrovision is who provides the security?
What also matches the coding on the disk? The security that "it" detects, also matches the coding on the disk? Can you please be more detailed? Seriously, no offense at all, but that hardly makes any sense.
(your chip removes the code so you can copy it in the first place, and you cannot put it back unless u know the source code which has 1024 bit encryption)"
What code are you talking about? The BIOS? Copy the code to where? Why do you need to copy it?
and for the last part of the question, yeah you can flash a new bios to the xbox and do it that way,
Thanks to you as well. :) .. But I never asked anything about flashing a new bios to the xbox. Although I was talking about the bios on the dvd burner.
You know, so many people here are so quick to jump up and say.. " All these dumb questions!!! When will these people learn? Stupid noobs!!! etc.. etc.. "
I'm starting to think... Maybe if somebody around here gave some real anwsers people wouldn't have to ask the same questions over and over and over again... Its hard to say any of that without sounding rude, and I'm trying my best not to, but come on...
Anwsering the "Can i play backups without a mod chip?", with a simple "NO!" seems hardly acceptable. Doesn't anybody else agree with me? Why blindly believe people without any explanation? What makes this "NO! Just because" anwser so credible? I just dont get it.
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unexist
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5. April 2004 @ 22:23 |
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G4MERZO1D,
I HAVE to know, because I dont believe it. Until I find out exactly why it is not possible, I am going to keep looking for ways to do it, and actually I wish more people did that instead of just take anwsers like... " just because" or like you say " bottom line ". That kind of knowledge is useless, IMO and get people nowhere. If everybody did that the human race wouldn't even be remotely close to where it is now, but lets not get all philosophical here and stick to the topic at hand..
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G4MERZO1D
Member
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6. April 2004 @ 01:34 |
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tbh were not talking about the human race though are we ;) its only xbox!
you can carry on trying but i wish u all the luck in the world as you wont do it (in my opinion but ur welcome to prove me wrong...)
AMD X2 3800+ 120GB SATA HDD 2047 DDR2 RAM GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 2MB Virgin Cable
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6. April 2004 @ 03:52 |
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maybe the question is just too damn anal!! yeah maybe if you worked inside the little xbox laboratory, or were a bigwig at microsoft then you could know what "it" is. The people on this forum do give "real" answers, and damn good ones. Just because you want to know something and no one can give you an exact answer, that doesn't mean the people of this forum dont know what they are doing. We do exactly what we need to do and we're happy with it. I dont know exactly how craxtion makes iso's that I can burn but cant read, but I dont give a damn, it works and thats all I give a damn about. I have no idea on the inner workings of alot of things, but it dont matter because it still works. If you are on a quest to do this "no mod, no nothing" way of backing up and playing your games, good luck to you. But stop and think for one second, can you possibly think that thousands of people in all the xbox communities around the world have overlooked and you are going to stumble upon and be the xbox god of the planet? no more mod chips or exploits or anything because you've found the one detail that thousands of others have overlooked. Yes it's possible, but highly unlikely. I'm not trying to be rude here at all but it's not exactly fair for you to say we do not give credible answers just because you ask a question that we cant answer. We are here to help people get to where they can make and play backups of their games, and we do that very well. seriously, if you do find a definate answer as to why you need a chip, I'm sure everyone would be interested in hearing it, as that would be a major score for "our side". good luck
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)
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ten80
Junior Member
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6. April 2004 @ 06:15 |
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I don't know the reason why your adamant on knowing the inner workings of Xbox security. But anyways here goes.
Xbox uses something called macrovision to authenticate you are using a legitimate version of the game and not a copy. For more info on what it is exactly go here
http://www.macrovision.com/
Now if your looking for a way to exploit macrovision then please let the rest of us know how cause I'm sure allot of eager geeks with alot of time on there hands would love to know as well.
Granted there are ways of removing macrovision or getting around the encryption much like the way a mod chip does. I'm sure you can google to find out how.
Now if you want to play games with removed macrovision you need to change the m$ bios on the xbox. How do you do that? with a mod chip obviously(there are also ways of doing this with exploits via the cd-rom, but not quite as effective).
But wouldn't It be easier to read a copied dvd/cd with macrovision kept intact on the cd-r/dvd-r you may have managed to burn? In a perfect hacker world yes. But since no one really has the source for macrovision encryption then there is no real way of duplicating it. Yes you can make hardware do what software does but no ones been successful at reverse engineering macrovision encryption in order to successfully duplicate any form of protected media with macrovision intact.
Now if you want a more detailed explanation of how exactly macrovision works here's something below i copied from http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1229927,00.asp
Quote:
How Macrovision Works: Macrovision Copy Protection employs two techniques that exploit the differences between video recorders and players. Either or both mechanism can be implemented at the discretion of content owners. First, the system can add carefully timed pulses (known as Pseudo-Sync Pulses or PSPs) to a video signal's Vertical Blanking intervals. These confuse the Automatic Gain Control (AGC) circuitry built into nearly all video recorders, resulting in unstable recordings marred by tearing, intermittent video, noise, dimness, or color loss. They don't, however, affect the AGC circuits designed for television sets, which react slowly enough to ignore the pulses. This approach can theoretically protect against copying by both VCRs and digital recorders, and Macrovision claims that it works with about 85% of the equipment currently in use.....
wanna know more keep reading that link...And don't be so dammed lazy and expect an answer. Google your questions, you'd be surprised how much information is out there.
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unexist
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6. April 2004 @ 06:54 |
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^^^ Thanks for the info... You would be surprised if you knew how much I actually did look and google and how little usefull information I have found.
Thanks to all of you. I understand that you are here to help. I'm just really frustrated because this kind of stuff will do that to you. I'm sure most of you know the deal with that.
I dont care how anal the question are. The first step to breaking the security is knowing how it works. No?
I will search for anwsers, and I wont stop until I have them. When i get them, I will post them up here for you guys to read if you're interested in reading them. If you guys know or find something before me. Please let me know.
Questions I still have yet to anwser.
1. Does xbox detect writeable media and discard it? If so, how does it know the difference?
2. From what I understand, you can get EvoX onto an xbox and play games directly off of the hard drive without any mod chip.
3. From what I understand the xbox drive reads data backwards, a normal pc/dvd drive or burner cannot read xbox dvds and you need to make the images through the xbox dvd drive. If this is incorrect. Somebody let me know if you know or know where you can find out.. Is there anyway for a normal dvd drive to read xbox discs?
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joles_123
Newbie
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6. April 2004 @ 07:01 |
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Well said ten80. But if you still didnt understand unexist here goes...
Doesnt matter about bad sectors etc if you still make a perfect copy of an xbox (or ps2) dvd it will NOT run in an unmodded xbox. This is because it is impossible (1024bit encryption) to copy the macrovision code embedded in the original dvd as mentioned about ten80.
It doesnt matter if the media is pressed or writeable if it doesnt have macrovision on it you cannot copy this portion of the disk successfully unless you have the decoder (ie work for macrovision).
By putting a modchip in you can choose to disable this macrovision protection and the xbox will not check the disk for it.
I would like to see you decode 1024bit encryption this century! You would need some serious computing power
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hoppers
Member
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6. April 2004 @ 08:36 |
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you should check out The Neo Project
The goal is collecting a $100,000 by winning the Xbox hacking challenge (cracking the 2048 bit code) by Michael Robertson, chief executive of Linux software company Lindows
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Diaboli
Member
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6. April 2004 @ 09:10 |
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unexist:
2. The thing is, you cannot launch EvoX or any other unsigned software without a modded(**) Xbox. The original Xbox-BIOS tries to find the signature from the disc, if it can't find it, the execution of the program stops right there. Backup-games and Evox does not contain the signature, so the only way to make them work is a modded Xbox. Modded BIOS doesn't give a damn about signatures, that's why you can install a game into a harddrive and launch it from there.
3. Xbox drive reads the original gamediscs backward, that's correct. That's why you cannot just throw in any common DVD-ROM drive into the Xbox. However, there are couple of drives (at least some model from Samsung), that can be modded in order to replace the original drive. I'm not quite sure if a modded drive fitted into a PC can read original Xbox-DVD's. Anyway, the only practical method to read the Xbox-DVD content is to read the disc using Xbox and transfer the files via FTP.
(**) Modifications can be done with a modchip or with a software-exploit. Either way, the point is to get the Xbox to launch unsigned software.
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ten80
Junior Member
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6. April 2004 @ 09:28 |
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I got an idea...why not just buy a mod chip if your so willing to play copied games :P
from what you wrote you've already spent about 15 hours trying to research this. @ minimum wage($7.50 in canada) you could have saved yourself the time headaches and bought a mod chip already :D
$7.50 x 15hrs = $112.50
just an observation
time is money
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Xbox - S-Controllers
X-ecuter2.3b lite [+]
Xecuter bios
Western Digital 7200rpm 120gb HD
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G4MERZO1D
Member
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6. April 2004 @ 13:18 |
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lol nice thought ;)
AMD X2 3800+ 120GB SATA HDD 2047 DDR2 RAM GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 2MB Virgin Cable
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joles_123
Newbie
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6. April 2004 @ 16:49 |
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hopefully he now realises he is fighting an uphill battle. Just install a mod chip and forget about how it all works its not worth it.
Everyone has already thought of every method of hacking it. Bottom line xbox has inbuilt security so people cant copy software. This is a hardware issue built into the xbox bios. To get around it you need you own bios and the only way to do this is to install a modchip with a new bios.
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6. April 2004 @ 16:57 |
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hey if this guy wants to go for it, let him and back him up, even if we dont agree that he'll be able to do it, it's guys like him that make all this possible for us in the first place. never give up.
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)
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ten80
Junior Member
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6. April 2004 @ 17:14 |
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darthnip:
understood and I see your point. But from the tone of the questions he was asking one can easily come to the conclusion he wasn't really looking for any real developer support and isn't in any postition to make any headway to crack any form of encryption. But hey that's just my own opinion. I could be wrong. :P
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Xbox - S-Controllers
X-ecuter2.3b lite [+]
Xecuter bios
Western Digital 7200rpm 120gb HD
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joles_123
Newbie
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6. April 2004 @ 18:14 |
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yep i agree by all means try all you want
read introduction to hacking 101
by the time you figure out they would have bought out the new version of xbox!
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unexist
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7. April 2004 @ 01:48 |
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Look, I dont have anything to prove to you guys. You either want to help me or dont so take your pick. I'm fine with either one and I greatly appreciate any help that I can get. However, starting now, I am ignoring anybody who isn't at least trying to help in one way shape or form, so just save yourself save time and keep it to yourself about how I will never be able to do it and how much it isn't worth it.
This was never about the money. I could easily afford and install a mod chip, or even just buy a pre-modded xbox, but I want to do it myself, and I know its possible. I could just buy the stupid games and forget about modding anything alltogether if this was all just about playing them. This is a hobby of mine and even if I dont this done, I will learn a lot on the way. That how I see it. If you dont agree, thats fine.
"Everyone has already thought of every method of hacking it."
Maybe so, but yet I do not see anybody playing copied on an unmodded xbox, so even if somebody did figure out a way, I dont know it. I will find out what it is, even if I can't do it because of time or money or take a lot of time. At least I'll know how to do it...
The more research I do on this, the more I seem to think that not only is it possible but it will also be very worth it. If i'm wrong, tell me now and explain why at least to some extent.
So anyway.. I'll take any help that I can get.
Just to fill you guys in as it seems some of you have this confused. It is entirely possible to install evox and play games straight off of the hard-drive without any mod chips. You will have to take apart your xbox but it isn't anything more or less then what you would have to do to put a mod chip in. The only difference is you wouldnt' be able to use xbox live without a mod chip which you can turn on and off.
We allready know that you dont even have to break the encryption. It is not necessary. Xbox can read xbox discs. All we need to do is make identical copies of the disc by using the xbox drive to create images. When i say identical.
The big question is, Is there no such thing as copying software bit by bit?
Copying encrypted data should not be a problem if bit by bit copying is possible. Even if you can't decipher the data and/or do anything with it, if you're reading the data bit by bit you can still see the zeroes and ones and make a perfect copy without losing a single bit of information.
If you can make a perfect copy of the disc, theoretically, if the xbox judges whether or not the disc is original by checking the data on the disc and not the media itself you should be able to play the game on an unmodified xbox as it will look identical to the original.
Am I wrong about anything that I have said?
Is there a way to copy to xbox dvds bit by bit?
If you can copy xbox games bit by bit wouldn't you copy everything(including the encryption) on the discs?
Do the barcodes on the inside of xbox discs have anything to do with how xbox decides whether the disc is original or not?
So many missing pieces.. I read the links here.. Plus a lot of guides at http://www.xbox-scene.com which is an excellent site by the way, lots of usefull information. Still, I am not finding anything which explains how xbox knows which disc is original.
I understand the discs are encrypted and that the only hardware that can read is has the key. What I do not understand is why you cannot copy the encryption as well as everything else.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. April 2004 @ 01:48
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G4MERZO1D
Member
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7. April 2004 @ 02:05 |
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i think you should just do wat ten80 thought of, still if u wanna be picky :P
AMD X2 3800+ 120GB SATA HDD 2047 DDR2 RAM GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 2MB Virgin Cable
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joles_123
Newbie
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7. April 2004 @ 07:31 |
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Unexist it seems difficult to understand at first why it is not possible to copy a disc bit by bit, but this is the remarkable technology that the people at Macrovision have developed. The code i believe they use is Safedisc Version 3. They say its a "transparent solution for protecting executable content on an optical media such as dvd". Safedisc adds a unique digital signature to the optical media at the time of replication. Safedisc authentication performs security checks and verifies this "digital signature". Once it has been established the game will run normally. In all they claim the digital signature cannot be copied or transferred from the original media. Games are produced at a factory with this signature on them using a "Laser Beam Recorder".
You can read their faq on their website.
http://www.macrovision.com/pdfs/SafeDisc_v315_FAQ_Dec2003.pdf
It answers some questions but also raises a few such as how is this burnproof data actually achieved. This is their secret/patent which is their primary business! geeze i wish i had the patent would be worth a lot!
It seems your only solution to make an exact copy is to copy the data off a game as per normal then obtain illegally (steal) one of these gold masters from Macrovision and then you could encode your own Safedisc digital signature.
I have no idea how youd ever achieve that but good luck with you quest!
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ten80
Junior Member
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7. April 2004 @ 07:38 |
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joles_123:
beat me to the response. :D
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Xbox - S-Controllers
X-ecuter2.3b lite [+]
Xecuter bios
Western Digital 7200rpm 120gb HD
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