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Sony takes Geohot and Fail0verflow to Court!
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biglo30
Senior Member
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11. January 2011 @ 22:26 |
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Seems like it just got a little more serious as Sony prepares to take our community saviors to court. Hopefully the EFF can jump in for the rescue like they did for the iPhone jailbreaking situation. Especially since there is no way piracy is affiliated with the jailbreak.
Charges include:
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(C) ? Confidential Information On Computer
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(4) ? Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(A) ? Knowing Transmission of Code
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(B) and (C) ? Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(6)(A) ? Trafficking in Password
? 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) ? Intent to Extort
From Marcan42: "Ah, so Sony decided to sue everyone under US law. Guess I won't be visiting the US in a while..."
From fail0verflow: "Looks like Sony decided to ignore the facts and sue us all for it. See http://geohot.com/."
GeoHot on IRC: (IPs/other users/etc removed)
geohot: http://geohot.com/
geohot: they expect me to be in SF tomorrow at 9am :/
geohot: they also say i am taking donations, which i am not
geohot: and that i have a twitter, which i do not
geohot: moving to spain :P
geohot: old index page and jailbreak.zip has been restored to geohot.com
geohot: i assure you i am takely this matter very seriously
geohot: after reading the documents and consulting with my legal team, i have decided to repost the information and jailbreak
geohot: the tro is proposed, not signed
geohot: if the court signs off on the tro, i will comply with the courts decision
geohot: whats ironic is the program to get the metldr key was run under otheros
geohot: 100% legally
geohot: on 3.15
geohot: nothing was circumvented
You can read about this here and here.
I read some of the paperwork and it seems that you can violate the psn user agreement without having a psn account or even agreeing to them lol......WTF
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 22:08
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sevink
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11. January 2011 @ 22:50 |
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yea this should be interesting!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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11. January 2011 @ 22:59 |
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Hopefully they will get good lawyers...these will be landmark cases that determine the future of the entire tech sector...
Do we own our own the devices we buy?
Do supreme court rulings mean anything?
Is a contract binding if the party who must accept it has already paid money to the contract holder, and is not allowed to negotiate the contract?
Is a contract binding to those who did not accept the contract? (Like if you got your system used and someone else accepted the contract)
Can someone agree to a contract without reading it or selecting that they agree?
Has someone agreed to a contract if they actually selected "I Do Not Agree"?
According to Sony: No, No, Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes
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coorva
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12. January 2011 @ 07:20 |
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looks whats going on with the xbox scene,,why isnt m$ suing c4eva,taking team xtreme to court,sony cause so much drama that what ever happens,they bring upon themselfs,this is why the xbox is doing so well with sales,not only do i hope the ps3 get busted wide open,,but everytime they bring out the firmware to patch,it gets unpatched the next day,
microsoft after a ban wave |
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bigo93
Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 08:49 |
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Excellent point Killerbug, it is also a question I ask regarding music cd's. What exactly are you buying there. Are you buying a cd with a song on it, the right to listen to the song via a cd, you cannot even copy the cd for personal use anymore, so what happens when the cd breaks, will the publisher issue you with a new cd, or do you have to buy the right to listen to the song again?
For those who want a real good laugh read this article:
http://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-to-pay-45-million-for-pirating-artists-music-110110/
The record companies could potentially be sued for $6 billion for, you guessed it, piracy! Article highlights the double standards of record companies on breaking copyright laws.
Regarding these agreements, has anyone read the agreement which comes with, say a windowd operating cd? It's kindda hard to agree to something when you have to buy the software before you can actually read what you are agreeing to. Add the fact that if you actually decide to decline the agreement, trying to return an opened software box to a retailer can be pretty hard, or against the store's return policy.
Software laws are one of the most ridiculous laws around, just look at how ubisoft released an alpha version of Star Trek Legacy, and there was nothing you could do about it, Ubisoft claimed it to be of retail worth when even in teh coding devs have notes on what needed to be removed or modified, there was even code which showed a photo of a dev with his 2 pet goats! And yet there wasnt anything like a product recall or refunds or even proper game patches!
lol, now back on topic, seems the only thing $ony can think of is suing people, yet they claim they can stop the piracy via software updates, so why the hissy fit :P (oh yeah noones gonna update)
P.S. By opening or reading this post or any post within this thread you hereby agree to transferring all ownership of your belongings, money, property etc to bigo93.
Above conditions my change at any time without prior notice.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 08:53
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 12:42 |
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1. Everything geohot did was obviously carefully calculated. From not accepting or seeking donations, to saying things like "I hate it that the code might enable piracy" to releasing a version that only allows homebrew programs, and not piracy. Everyone knows that others can and will release tools that help us exercise our basic right of backing up our software. And, yeah, piracy will probably also be easier. But it doesn't matter, really. Pirates are pirates, so it isn't like money will be lost, as they weren't going to spend any money anyway.
geohot et al will be fine as long as they don't screw up. This is all a show-- a sham, or "frivolous" lawsuit-- the only purpose of which is to try to scare little children.
In the unlikely event that this suit doesn't get thrown out, and it actually makes it to the supreme court... any negative decision will be moot, as the people most pissed off by this are people who believe their rights are more important. And they will either completely ignore any negative ruling, or release anonymously, which is really quite simple. If they don't want to be known, they won't.
So, long story short, don't worry about it.
PS: the Fail0verflow team needs to grow some balls.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 12:45
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 13:19 |
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.Originally posted by coorva:
looks whats going on with the xbox scene,,why isnt m$ suing c4eva,taking team xtreme to court,sony cause so much drama that what ever happens,they bring upon themselfs,this is why the xbox is doing so well with sales,not only do i hope the ps3 get busted wide open,,but everytime they bring out the firmware to patch,it gets unpatched the next day,
Just a different approach. MS maybe thinks rather than suing people it would be easier to ban consoles which they have done.Why is is just because its a big corporation like Sony that it seems to me that people think that they should just roll over and take it."They have money so whats a little piracy here and there?!"
MS is doing well in sales because they are not suing? Please!My cousins 360 got banned cause he was dumb enough to log on Xbox live with a modded console. What did he ended up doing? Bought another 360. Its easy to say shit like I hope sony gets busted wide open?Its like your neighbor saying hope your house gets robbed and then after your put a security system gets robbed again.
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coorva
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. January 2011 @ 14:00 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
.Originally posted by coorva:
looks whats going on with the xbox scene,,why isnt m$ suing c4eva,taking team xtreme to court,sony cause so much drama that what ever happens,they bring upon themselfs,this is why the xbox is doing so well with sales,not only do i hope the ps3 get busted wide open,,but everytime they bring out the firmware to patch,it gets unpatched the next day,
Just a different approach. MS maybe thinks rather than suing people it would be easier to ban consoles which they have done.Why is is just because its a big corporation like Sony that it seems to me that people think that they should just roll over and take it."They have money so whats a little piracy here and there?!"
MS is doing well in sales because they are not suing? Please!My cousins 360 got banned cause he was dumb enough to log on Xbox live with a modded console. What did he ended up doing? Bought another 360. Its easy to say shit like I hope sony gets busted wide open?Its like your neighbor saying hope your house gets robbed and then after your put a security system gets robbed again.
the difference being M$ would ban individual consoles,sony takes it out on every console,,even the ones that are legit,,
microsoft after a ban wave
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 14:26 |
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Originally posted by coorva:
Originally posted by Bawango:
.Originally posted by coorva:
looks whats going on with the xbox scene,,why isnt m$ suing c4eva,taking team xtreme to court,sony cause so much drama that what ever happens,they bring upon themselfs,this is why the xbox is doing so well with sales,not only do i hope the ps3 get busted wide open,,but everytime they bring out the firmware to patch,it gets unpatched the next day,
Just a different approach. MS maybe thinks rather than suing people it would be easier to ban consoles which they have done.Why is is just because its a big corporation like Sony that it seems to me that people think that they should just roll over and take it."They have money so whats a little piracy here and there?!"
MS is doing well in sales because they are not suing? Please!My cousins 360 got banned cause he was dumb enough to log on Xbox live with a modded console. What did he ended up doing? Bought another 360. Its easy to say shit like I hope sony gets busted wide open?Its like your neighbor saying hope your house gets robbed and then after your put a security system gets robbed again.
the difference being M$ would ban individual consoles,sony takes it out on every console,,even the ones that are legit,,
What?Are you saying that Sony will and has banned every single PS3 even the legit ones? Can you give me the link or tell me where you came about this info?
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 14:36 |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8594720.stm
you even mentioned it in your latest post in the other thread.
you keep going back and forth, defending their actions, and then saying that they haven't done anything. quit trolling.
and if you're not trolling, then just understand that these threads are for the issues raised in the original topic, and they don't exist just for everyone to explain simple concepts to you. If you still can't understand, try googling about logic
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 14:40
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 14:46 |
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Originally posted by NteStlKr:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8594720.stm
you even mentioned it in your latest post in the other thread.
you keep going back and for them, defending their actions, and then saying that they haven't done anything. quit trolling.
I'm trolling?! WTF?! The link you provided is an article about the other OS feature being removed which unfortunately was removed because of hackers. This your classic example of hackers ruining it for everyone.Your mad at Sony for removing other OS? Shouldn't you be mad at the idiot that was using other OS as a way to hack the PS3?
Oh and if you think that just because you using a homebrew application that has nothing to do with piracy on your PS3 does not mean your PS3 is legit. Your still using software not authorize on your PS3. Check your TOS my friend.I hope Sony does ban every single a-holes with a hacked PS3 to teach them a lesson and stop ruining it for everyone else!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 14:51
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 15:46 |
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lol NteStlKr he isn't trolling, i have never seen him once troll in all my years here, he is however a big Sony/PS3 fan, which he has every right to be and in being a fan he will defend the company/console he loves, that does not make him a troll, unfortunately, it does tend to make him one sided and slightly biased, but i repeat, he isn't a troll.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2011 @ 15:52
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 15:50 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
lol NteStlKr he isn't trolling, i have never seen him once troll in all my years here, he is however a big Sony/PS3 fan, which he has every right to be and in being a fan he will defend the company/console he loves, that does not make him a troll, unfortunately, it does tend to make him one sided and slightly biased, but i repeat, he isn't a troll.
Thanks :)
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 15:54 |
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Originally posted by NteStlKr:
PS: the Fail0verflow team needs to grow some balls.
No offence, but those guys have bigger balls than you will ever have, i seen them at a German conference, showing the whole world the PS3's security flaws, i didn't see you :p
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 16:00 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
Originally posted by NteStlKr:
PS: the Fail0verflow team needs to grow some balls.
No offence, but those guys have bigger balls than you will ever have, i seen them at a German conference, showing the whole world the PS3's security flaws, i didn't see you :p
If I can say anything that is remotely complimentary to these hackers is they are ballsy.I mean they have to had known that there were going to be consequences to what they were doing.
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coorva
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12. January 2011 @ 17:32 |
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i dont like piracy,i dont download games,i have alot of ps3 games,i think that the ps3 is far more a superior console then the xbox,,if only sony would give you the option to install games to your harddrive,SAVE MY LASER,and not take away anymore features,just improve on what they have now,i wont be having this converstion,
microsoft after a ban wave
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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12. January 2011 @ 17:48 |
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well i dont call that ballsy......i call it stupidity/ cocking around.
Is like being 1.60cm 50 kilos and flaming on m.tyson = best case scenario 6 months in a hospital with a coma.........who's the ballsy now?
however, i am a sony fan and even though that i think fail0verflow and gh are clowns cause they are cocking too much...
I really hope that $ony wont wins this, cause the collateral effect will be huge.
The 1st that will jump in is @pple that lost vs iphone JB.
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Senior Member
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12. January 2011 @ 18:39 |
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Originally posted by SDF_GR:
The 1st that will jump in is @pple that lost vs iphone JB.
Yeah its fine to hack the iPhone, but god forbid anyone hack the PS3 lol
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RickJames
Member
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12. January 2011 @ 22:43 |
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Pissed off hackers PLUS a lawsuit = extremely pissed off hackers...
just watch whats gonna happen in the coming weeks... i expect fireworks.
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 13:24 |
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"Pissed off hackers PLUS a lawsuit = extremely pissed off hackers... "
This pretty much sums it all up. But I will elaborate a little.
Bawango, where your logic falls off is mostly in the cause/effect relationship between the various events. Hackers did not take out otheros, Sony, and Sony alone, did. They are using "hackers" and "pirates" (be they merely terms, or anyone in particular) to spin their insult to paying customers, and decrease in value to the already-sold consoles (IMHO, stolen value), as a defense from these mysterious people.
The digital world is just like any other, where there is demand, there will be supply. Period. Ignoring this with artificial restrictions only decreases the value in goods actually purchased, leading to unhappy paying customers, while those darned pirates still get the whole shebang without paying a dime, like they would have anyway. The only person hurt is the paying customer, and the only person responsible is the company (in this case, Sony).
This is the main reason why I stay mostly to PC gaming. There is still respect in much of that industry (save for the PA edition(s) of SecuROM, which are the most invasive yet created, et al). And even with the PA editions, they are generally removed after a while (not that that makes it ok to have used it in the first place). Mass Effect for example. It had one of the very invasive SecuROM PA editions when it first shipped, but it was removed in later releases (most notably, the "EA Classics" release). But with consoles it is a different story. It takes a little more patience to get that same basic compatibility.
Which brings me to another point: Sony has never crossed me (other than shotty receiver power supplies, but that's another story). That is because I haven't let them. With their removal of otherOS, and the difficulty of playing backups, I have withheld doing business with them so far. If I'm going to buy a game, I'm not going to buy one that might not work 5 or 10 years from now. That being said, I'm waiting for the smoke to clear on this issue. If this crack lives up to its expectations, I may be getting a PS3 in the near future.
and my comments toward failoverflow were regarding their reluctance to release parts of their work (or fruits thereof), for fear of sony. And props to george for releasing them. Failoverflow was still sued, which was hilarious imo lol
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13. January 2011 @ 13:29 |
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Originally posted by NteStlKr:
and my comments toward failoverflow were regarding their reluctance to release parts of their work (or fruits thereof), for fear of sony. And props to george for releasing them. Failoverflow was still sued, which was hilarious imo lol
Seems you don't have a clue what you are talking about, fail0verflow released ALL their tools and they haven't been sued.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 13:30
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 13:52 |
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they released some limited information on the vulnerability, but left it to others to open up fully (eg, release the keys), which was very cowardly. If they had balls, Hotz would have had nothing to do with this whole thing, as failoverflow would have released everything.
And yes, failoverflow was sued. their site initially had a quote ("we got sued" or something to that effect) and a link to george's site, which has the documents listing the defendants.
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 14:00 |
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Originally posted by NteStlKr:
"Pissed off hackers PLUS a lawsuit = extremely pissed off hackers... "
This pretty much sums it all up. But I will elaborate a little.
Bawango, where your logic falls off is mostly in the cause/effect relationship between the various events. Hackers did not take out otheros, Sony, and Sony alone, did. They are using "hackers" and "pirates" (be they merely terms, or anyone in particular) to spin their insult to paying customers, and decrease in value to the already-sold consoles (IMHO, stolen value), as a defense from these mysterious people.
Well aware that Sony took away other OS via firmware, BUT the only reason they did so is because of hackers.I'm not going to try to convince you until I'm blue in the face because I think that you convinced that Sony is out to get everyone. If anyone here can tell me other wise that Sony had another reason as to why they removed other OS please do so.I will write this again. This is the classic case of people ruining it for other people. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if hackers left other OS alone and used it responsibly rather than trying to hack or crack the PS3 open.
I don't think that someone at Sony just all of a sudden woke up had a sip of coffee and said "What can I do to piss people off today?" "I know!" "We'll remove other OS!" "Then we'll say we did it cause hackers forced us." "IT'S GENIUS!" "
Also its not like Sony did this very under handedly either. As far as I know they did warn people that IF you were to update your firmware, you will lose the other OS feature.
Anyway, If someone here can tell me the REAL reason why Sony took other OS out please enlighten me.
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 14:28 |
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Misguided hatred.
A common theme I?ve seen across the internet in comments regarding hack news is ?F**k you Sony!? ?Hahaha take that Sony!?, it?s somewhat laughable to think about it really, because while Sony themselves do feel a negative impact from piracy in their cut of software sales, licenses and third party developers, they also see a vast increase in sold hardware.
Indeed some commenter?s seem oblivious to the fact that the software they download isn?t all made by Sony themselves, yet feel the need to chime in with the chorus of fellow pirates about how ?Sony deserve it?.
But let?s take a look at things more intimately for a second, one of the most pointed at reasons for why Sony ?deserve? their console being hacked, is the removal of OtherOS, at the same time, people also like to point out that the PlayStation 3 was only hacked because of OtherOS removal.
Also, Sony did advertise the functionality of OtherOS when selling the console, so removal of an advertised feature is indeed quite wrong.
It may be the case that OtherOS was going to be removed from consoles prior to hackers attempts to exploit the system via an OtherOS linux install, and while we will never truly know the truth behind this or not, in all probability, the new console would probably have gone on sale without advertisements for OtherOS capability, with the original units keeping the functionality much like original launch units kept PlayStation 2 Backwards compatibility.
The attempts on the systems security being made via the OtherOS functionality obviously gave Sony no reason to continue support for the functionality with future firmware updates, and while i completely disagree with the removal of the function, despite never actually using it for more than a day, i can see their reasoning for removing it.
This is a snippet from this article:
http://sony.nyleveia.com/2011/01/13/4652/
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m4r0v3r
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1 product review
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13. January 2011 @ 15:35 |
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Technically the software is legit, since there using Sony's own key to sign the software, at the end of the day Sony are children compared to Microsoft in the whole piracy scheme and after there law suit fails, they might mature instead of whine about it. The big problem is that the code signing is the easiest thing in the world, even installing custom firmware is easy. Am using the words code signing and not hacking, jail breaking or exploiting because failoverflow just worked out the key.
Sony said that the reason why they removed Other OS was due to security issues but Geohot came out and said that's not how he was trying to hack it. If anyone was trying to hack the PS3 using Other OS it would be all over the damn internet. Even though it took 4 years to hack, the simplicity of the hack and the degree of it is rather severe. The 360 only allows the DVD hack, yes JTAG is available but that can't be done anymore. The PS3 is the new homebrew machine
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