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Experienced user please for advice on new built PC
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. January 2010 @ 21:21 |
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Two HD5870s will obliterate a GTX295. One will come close to beating it. Unless you're a hardcore gamer or use a large resolution monitor, you shouldn't need more than one HD5870 for quite some time.
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Jinkazuya
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28. January 2010 @ 22:14 |
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Still I cannot decide which CPU to buy...I have prepared and selected everything...But the question or the last thing to buy is the CPU or some other heatsinks for video cards, harddisks, harddrives...Hope you guys could help me out.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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29. January 2010 @ 03:22 |
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Originally posted by Jinkazuya:
Still I cannot decide which CPU to buy...I have prepared and selected everything...But the question or the last thing to buy is the CPU or some other heatsinks for video cards, harddisks, harddrives...Hope you guys could help me out.
You dont need to worry about cooling your hard drives as most cases, atleast good ones, will have a fan located right in front of the hard drive storage bays. So long as you have a descent fan blowing on them they should be fine. Plus SSDs generate basically no heat, draw little power, and there generally indestructible. Well the indestructible parts a little over kill but due to lack of moving parts there durability is very good.
Id say the same is true for the video card. So long as your case has good cooling measures you should be fine. Plus the new ATI cards draw less power the most other high end cards on the market creating less heat then previous generation cards from both ATI and Nvidia.
So long as you dont OC the stock cooler will be fine assuming you have a good case that cools well, but an after market coolers never ever bad investment. Well if its a good cooler. Some aftermarket coolers arent really much better then the stock coolers. For example, the stock Core 2 Quad Q6600 cooler and the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 come to mind. My last build I used the stock cooler and upgraded to the AC7 down the line. I noticed about one or two degree temp drops if that when idle. On the 860, I did the same thing. Initally used the stock cooler and then upgraded to a Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme and noticed about 5*-7* temp drops at idle.
As for which SSD, the votes 2-0 nothing for the Intels. I run 2x80 GB Intel SSDs in RAID0 off the mobo(software RAID). Heres a comparison of my RAID vs a 1 TB WD Caviar Black
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3843/ssdread.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9555/wdreadp.jpg
Now keep in mind these test were done with some background apps running, and used drives, not fresh off the shelf or freshly formatted. Keep in mind your going to need a good mechanical hard drive in your build as well. You want to keep the SSD just for running Windows,Apps,and Games, then store all your data on a drive like a WD 1 TB Black.
As for CPU,
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3641&p=3
The 860 outperforms the 920 in photoshop. Not by anything impressive but every little bit counts when you look at all factors.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3641&p=4
For video conversion the 860 beats the the 920 in nearly every test.
Check out the whole article here for a very good look at the 920 vs 860.
OS: Kubuntu 12.10/Windows 8 -- CPU: Intel Core i7 2600K -- Motherboard: MSI P67A-G45 -- Memory: 2x4GB Corsair Dominator -- Graphics Card: Sapphire 4890 Vapor-X -- Monitor: Dell 2208WFP -- Mouse: Mionix NAOS 5000 -- PSU: Corsair 520HX -- Case: Thermaltake Mozart TX -- Cooling: Thermalright TRUE Black Ultra-120 eXtreme CPU Heatsink Rev C -- Hard Drives: 1x180 GB Intel 330 SSD/1xWD 1 TB Caviar Black/1xWD 2 TB Caviar Green/2xWD 3 TB Caviar Green
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Jinkazuya
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29. January 2010 @ 09:51 |
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I have read the article you linked me to...And I know 860 outperform 920 except for the fact that the overclocking won't be that user-friendly and you cannot overclock as high as 920...As long as 860 reach 3.8ghz, I will be fine with that. SO the decision comes down to 860...However, assuming I had a lot of software installed and then I had dual windows, window 7, and window XP(forget about vista), what would be the best SSD to buy? 160gb or 80gb...for 160gb, $599. 80gb $289, for OEM intel 160gb, it is $489...I mean would that be sufficient if I buy 80gb if I have a lot of apps installed and then using two windows?
Besides, as wiki points out, window xp does not seem to be compatible with window xp, or simply put it, xp won't work on SSD.
Another problem is, I have selected the same thing except for power supplies and CPU, and both wishlist ends up the same amount - $2500 or something. I will soon post the wishlist here.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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29. January 2010 @ 20:00 |
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Entirely unture, the 860 is just as easy to overclock as the 920, will overclock just as well, and end up with the same performance, if not better, with a lower heat output and lower cost due to how much cheaper the P55 architecture is.
For SSDs, it's the Intel X25-M Gen2, no contest. For storage drives, the WD Caviar Black. I agree entirely with Xplorer about this.
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Jinkazuya
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29. January 2010 @ 20:34 |
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I prefer Gigabyte motherboard, but the one Xplorer recommended seems to have some problems...So I chose ASrock...Will this is a good mobo? I would like a board that could support Crossfire or SLI, though I don't do that as of now.
For the SSD, do you think I shall go for 160gb or 80gb? Because I have lots of applications to install...And besides, will that work with window XP and window 7 at the same time? How come my build ends up $2500, which is about the same as the core i7 950?
Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119213
Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157169
graphic card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161301
PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339030
Note: This is less expensive than the one I previously chose for my i7 950, which costs about $129 and this one is only $109.
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115214
SSD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167017
Note: It is still undecided whether to buy the 80gb or this one, which is 160gb. (My intention of building this PC is to install lots of applications and dual windows, which are window 7 and window xp).
8G of 2000 Ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231332
Harddisk 1GB Samsung Brand
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
Monitor 1080p Asus
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236075
Mouse and Keyboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126074
Modem, in case of network problem
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825164003
Network card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106010
Heatsink with fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608014
Speaker Bose, which is my fav
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836166006
Burner Lightscribe x 2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106282
Total: $2,611.86
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This is a previous build
Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119213
Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423
Graphic card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161301
Note: I think I am gonna stick with this video card for sure.
PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006
SSD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167017
Ram Patriot Viper II (They are pretty good rams but higher prices)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220401
Harddisk 1GB Samsung
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
Keyboard and Mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126032
LCD Monitor Asus
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236079
Modem:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825104001
two DVD burners lightscribe
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335
Network card Intel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106121
Bose Speakers
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836166006
CPU bloomfield core-i 950
I could get it for $450
Total: 2,203.88 + 450.00 = $2,653.88.
So which one is a good buy? Please get rid of those parts if they are not that all necessary and waste of money. I really wanna buy wisely. But please assuming this is a computer fully loaded with huge applications and the purpose of it is for creation of program, graphic and video rendering h264. Besides, gaming is also a factor needed considering. That's why I am willing to spend that much money on this build as a total cost.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. January 2010 @ 09:58
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. January 2010 @ 10:24 |
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ASRock is not at all a good brand. ASRock stuff is cheaply and poorly made, and will likely cause problems down the line.
I'm not sure which motherboard you're referring to that has problems, but generally Gigabyte boards perform well under i7 environments, I haven't heard of any that are problematic.
For the SSD size, have a think about what is going to get benefit from being on an SSD. A lot of the applications you use won't see a great deal of benefit from using an SSD, others, however, will be absolutely transformed.
It's for this reason I always recommend an SSD, and a normal hard disk for high-end systems, as the hard disk can store far more data (1000GB vs 80 or 160, and for a third of the price of the 80GB SSD) and still achieve reasonable performance.
The difference between an 80GB SSD and 160GB is sizeable, if there is more than 80GB of stuff you use on an everday basis that will benefit from being on an SSD, consider the 160GB version. Typically, however, I would normally say 80GB is enough, simply due to how vastly expensive 160GB SSDs are.
So, the first build then:
Case: 10/10 - I own this case (but not the blue LED version), it's a nice design. I will warn you though, having that much blue lighting in a case so large may prove distracting.
M/B: 4/10 - ASRock stuff is poor. They can't even get their product spec right. Swap it for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128409
GPU: 10/10 - fabulous cards. No doubt about it.
PSU: 0/10 - dodgy brand = death. You decided to try and skimp on the PSU to improve other components. That not only renders PCs unstable, it can also cost lives, and I'm not joking.
Swap it for: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 IMMEDIATELY.
CPU: 9/10 - I only give it 9 marks versus 10 because it isn't quite as good value as the i5 750 below it, but that CPU doesn't have hyperthreading. Generally for encoding work, the 860 is still an excellent buy.
SSD: 10/10 for the Intel G2s as a whole, but $489 is a hell of a lot to pay for 160GB of storage.
RAM: 10/10 - Overkill, but so cheap it doesn't really matter.
HDD: 8/10 - F3s get good reviews, but I'm still unconvinced by the reliability of Samsung drives, the F1 was a disaster. For peace of mind, I'd plump the extra $10 for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284
The monitor you've chosen is designed for very low-space environments rather than to be ergonomically friendly. If you're buying a HAF932 case, I doubt you're short on space. Generally, I think you would do better with a monitor with a proper stand.
Wireless keyboards and mice have never impressed me that much, but I don't look at many reviews, simply because I like the guaranteed functionality of wired peripherals. As far as the 56k modem goes, who really cares, it's so cheap you can easily pick up another one if needs be.
Why on earth are you buying a PCIe network card though? That baffles me.
If you want two network connections in your PC just buy a motherboard with dual LAN, i.e. upgrade the P55A-UD4 to the UD5.
CPU cooler: 9/10 - Good performer, but expensive.
Speakers: I think you're spending too little to really appreciate the Bose label. Bose stuff is appreciably overpriced for what it is, and $100 from Bose is going to buy you the most cheap, basic and weak set of speakers ever. You would really be better off either spending more for proper Bose stuff, or buying a much better $100 set from logitech or Altec.
I don't really review DVD drives, but Liteon stuff is usually fine.
The second build is pretty much the same but obviously you're using the LGA1366 platform, and unlike the other build you have already chosen a decent power supply (though the 650W version would still be fine for this system).
The RAM you've chosen is expensive, and a little unnecessary, as was the case with the other system. For the first system, finding 8GB of normal RAM was no cheaper, so there was no reason to change it. However, here, you could get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145258
which is barely half the price and you won't notice the difference.
The same comments apply about the hard disk, network card and speakers.
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Jinkazuya
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30. January 2010 @ 12:34 |
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Just wanna learn, for instance if all my components of the computer use about 600 watts, does it matter if I buy the PSU 800 watts to 1000 watts? Is the matter of just wasting money or doing damage to my computer...? As for choosing the PSU, I am clueless.
Does 650 watts provide enough power to support a overlocked CPU, graphic card and Ram...Assuming I did overclock crazily, though I won't do that and I will just overclock the CPU if I do know how.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. January 2010 @ 12:59
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. January 2010 @ 12:43 |
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Buying a PSU rated higher than what you need will never cause damage by itself, or waste electricity. The PSU will only provide as much power as the PC requires, up to the rated figure.
600 Watts is a lot of power. Very few PCs use anywhere near that much. For example,
An i7 975 Extreme edition, 6GB of top-end RAM, several hard disks, and two Radeon HD5870 cards in crossfire will only use 500 Watts from the mains. This equates to around 420W from the power supply, lower than the rated figure for even cheap power supply units.
Now, of course, you want to buy a PSU with a higher rating than what you will require to increase its life, and to leave room for upgrades. However, generally the vast majority of PCs will use 300 Watts or less. This means that it essentially comes down to buying the unit that has enough connectors for your devices.
Most Standard low-end PSUs only come with one PCI express power connector, so can only really safely be used with a graphics card that only requires one power connector (i.e. up to the HD5770). Most midrange units of 550-650W have two, which means they can be used with any singular standard card, or pair of lower-end cards (e.g. up to two HD5770s, or one HD5970)
Only if you are using triple or quad graphics would you need more than a 650W PSU and more tha two connectors.
Even then, I run two HD4870X2s, which are arguably less efficient than the now top of the range HD5970s, and an overclocked quad core processor, yet an 850W PSU is ample. Don't be fooled by the cretins that buy Kilowatt or higher PSus just for one graphics card, it's a waste of money.
With one graphics card, even if it's a dual-GPU monster like the HD5970, a 650W PSU will be more than enough power.
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Jinkazuya
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30. January 2010 @ 12:59 |
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BTW...I have adjusted my list and be ready for purchase...However, I end up with the same amount either buying the 860 or 950...Also last but not least the SSD again...
(I have take your advice and change the stuff accordingly)
Would that be enough to support dual windows if I use the 80gb SSD? Imagine I would install the master suite of photoshop, 3D Max and Visual Studio...I expect that is gonna take 30gb - 40gb...So again would that be efficient to work with my application environment having 80gb?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. January 2010 @ 10:07 |
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I strongly dislike using multiple versions of windows on the same hard drive, for boot manager reasons. It's much easier to use separate drives and install one version of windows to each, so in this case, use the SSD for the operating system you feel will get the biggest benefit.
It's not a question of space, it's a question of the way windows boots can be a real pain if you get problems and need to reinstall one version, if they're both on the same drive.
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Jinkazuya
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31. January 2010 @ 16:04 |
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So does it mean that if I wanna use dual windows, I should buy two separate SSD, each of which is 80gb? That means SSD 80gb x 2, one of it is for xp and another for window 7?
I cannot really make my decision...I suck.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. January 2010 @ 16:09 |
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Well, if you want them both to run on SSDs then yes. Personally, I'd just run Win7 on the SSD and get a normal hard disk for XP.
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Jinkazuya
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31. January 2010 @ 17:51 |
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Well...What do you suggest for the two CPUs which end up about the same amount of money?
the total, which include the i7 850 CPU, is about $2,483.81.
the total, which include the i7 950 CPU, is about $2,495.82.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. January 2010 @ 18:06 |
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Is that the 870, rather than the 860? (there is no 850)
I ask since an 860 setup should work out substantially cheaper than the 950.
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Jinkazuya
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31. January 2010 @ 20:14 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. January 2010 @ 20:19
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. January 2010 @ 21:08 |
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The reduced price difference is due to the use of 8GB of RAM in the i5 system versus 6GB in the i7. Typically it's 4 vs 6 or 8 vs 12.
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Jinkazuya
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31. January 2010 @ 23:18 |
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I am so sorry to keep bothering you sam, but which order shall I take, the batch of i7 860 or i7 950?
Like Xplorer said, 4GB might be enough, but I don't think I it'll be enough for me since I use lots of applications for my stuff, so I will go with 8gb for i7 860. So I might wanna hear your suggestion about this.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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1. February 2010 @ 00:16 |
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It really depends on the application. Look up benchmarks of the programs you use and decide whether the extra performance justifies the extra cost.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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1. February 2010 @ 19:14 |
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Originally posted by Jinkazuya:
I am so sorry to keep bothering you sam, but which order shall I take, the batch of i7 860 or i7 950?
Like Xplorer said, 4GB might be enough, but I don't think I it'll be enough for me since I use lots of applications for my stuff, so I will go with 8gb for i7 860. So I might wanna hear your suggestion about this.
Can you possibly go around in circles anymore? I dont mean to be rude but do some legwork of your own here. All the cpus mentioned are good, its just a matter of what your going to do with them. You said you wanted video encoding performance right? the i7 800 series is best, if you want to sacrifice some gaming performance. If you want gaming performance while sacrificing video performance, go with the i7 800 series. While your going to sacrifice some, dont be to worried here, were not talking a difference in hours, just minuets if that(on the video side). On the i7 900 were talking a difference in a a few frames if that, but with the ability to run 16x/16x GPUs that opens things up a bit to.
OS: Kubuntu 12.10/Windows 8 -- CPU: Intel Core i7 2600K -- Motherboard: MSI P67A-G45 -- Memory: 2x4GB Corsair Dominator -- Graphics Card: Sapphire 4890 Vapor-X -- Monitor: Dell 2208WFP -- Mouse: Mionix NAOS 5000 -- PSU: Corsair 520HX -- Case: Thermaltake Mozart TX -- Cooling: Thermalright TRUE Black Ultra-120 eXtreme CPU Heatsink Rev C -- Hard Drives: 1x180 GB Intel 330 SSD/1xWD 1 TB Caviar Black/1xWD 2 TB Caviar Green/2xWD 3 TB Caviar Green
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. February 2010 @ 10:48 |
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I think you meant the 900 series in the first time you said 800 series, you're confusing him :P
Simply put, the 920/950 can be faster at video encoding, but it depends on the program.
The 750/860 will be faster at gaming, but only by 2-3% tops (per mhz) Then again, that might possibly be all the lead the 920/950 get in the particular video editing program you use.
It's ultimately your decision, but if it works out cheaper to get one or the other, I'd do that. You're not getting much extra for your money.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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2. February 2010 @ 17:49 |
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CPU wise the 860 will win but the 920 seems more gaming oriented for its ability to utilize x16/x16 PCI-E lanes for dual video cards. Like you im not a big fan of SLI or crossfire, but you know how gamers like to run dual cards.
OS: Kubuntu 12.10/Windows 8 -- CPU: Intel Core i7 2600K -- Motherboard: MSI P67A-G45 -- Memory: 2x4GB Corsair Dominator -- Graphics Card: Sapphire 4890 Vapor-X -- Monitor: Dell 2208WFP -- Mouse: Mionix NAOS 5000 -- PSU: Corsair 520HX -- Case: Thermaltake Mozart TX -- Cooling: Thermalright TRUE Black Ultra-120 eXtreme CPU Heatsink Rev C -- Hard Drives: 1x180 GB Intel 330 SSD/1xWD 1 TB Caviar Black/1xWD 2 TB Caviar Green/2xWD 3 TB Caviar Green
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. February 2010 @ 17:51
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. February 2010 @ 18:39 |
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I can't speak for the 860, but the 750 performs better in games per clock than the 920 does. That might simply be due to no hyperthreading, I'm not sure.
The PCIe bandwidth for i7 systems is important, but only for the absolute high-end systems. You can after all slap an HD5970 in a system with only one PCIe slot, let alone only one slot's worth of bandwidth.
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Jinkazuya
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2. February 2010 @ 20:48 |
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Well...Like I said earlier, I cannot really make up my mind which one to buy...So that's the reason why I will ask you guys' advice or wanna listen to you guys' suggestions. If you were to spend $2500, which one would you buy? Because I am not a big fan of gaming, but I am a big fan of graphic art, digital art, and gaming design...I like games, but I don't really like playing them. So video and graphic cards to me are really important...However, I also do programming and other software applications, so I really need a faster processor. I know I am kind of creedy, which is the reason why I cannot make my own decision whenever in a critical situation like this.
So you guys' advices are really important to me.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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2. February 2010 @ 21:16 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I can't speak for the 860, but the 750 performs better in games per clock than the 920 does. That might simply be due to no hyperthreading, I'm not sure.
Im aware of this, I think I was mixing up cpu numbers somewhere.
Quote:
The PCIe bandwidth for i7 systems is important, but only for the absolute high-end systems. You can after all slap an HD5970 in a system with only one PCIe slot, let alone only one slot's worth of bandwidth.
You preaching to the choir, as they say :p But let keep in mind the general public here, or gamers I should say, who just cant resist the idea of two GPUs.
OS: Kubuntu 12.10/Windows 8 -- CPU: Intel Core i7 2600K -- Motherboard: MSI P67A-G45 -- Memory: 2x4GB Corsair Dominator -- Graphics Card: Sapphire 4890 Vapor-X -- Monitor: Dell 2208WFP -- Mouse: Mionix NAOS 5000 -- PSU: Corsair 520HX -- Case: Thermaltake Mozart TX -- Cooling: Thermalright TRUE Black Ultra-120 eXtreme CPU Heatsink Rev C -- Hard Drives: 1x180 GB Intel 330 SSD/1xWD 1 TB Caviar Black/1xWD 2 TB Caviar Green/2xWD 3 TB Caviar Green
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