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DVDrebuilder/CCEsp and 3 or more passes.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. March 2005 @ 17:10 |
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sox2k4
The good news is that it's rare that you'll ever need more than two passes. A DVD type 9 compressed to a DVD type 5 leaves damned little room to play with in the first place. The two passes just helps CCE to make better use of what space you have however limited and more passes aren't going to find any extra storage that's not there.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. March 2005 @ 17:13
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. March 2005 @ 17:39 |
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sox2k4,
I have tried CCE SP trial using 3 and 4 passes. If there was any difference between 2 and 3 it was either my imagination or it was very very slight. I definitely couldn't tell a difference between 3 and 4 passes. This was at 300% magnification with a 57" split screen side by side comparison. Not to mention the extra time factor added to an already long process of 3-4 hours.
You'll be fine using CCE Basic with 2 passes, and IMHO it remains the best compression combo on the market, bar none. Soooo just enjoy it's results and continue to be a participant here at AD, we look forward to any of your findings and/or queries :>)
 GO VOLS ! |
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sox2k4
Junior Member
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28. March 2005 @ 17:53 |
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thanks again for your help, very much appreciated. i agree that CCE is the best in the biz (well for most anyways :) will continue to participate here.
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 1.79ghz - Compaq notebook
512mb ddr-sdram (pc2700)
100gb Seagate internal (5400rpm)
160gb AcomData external (7200rpm)
Plextor PX-716UF burner
19" Dell Ultra Sharp 1905fp flat panel
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. March 2005 @ 22:24 |
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sox2k4
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/62/97052#842630Quote:
it takes my computer about 3 1/2 to 4 hours doing 3 passes.
Excuse me for assuming you might know what you were talking about.
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i will say this though - there was another AfterDawn Prick i mean Addict that accused me of stealing the software recently when i made the same comment in another thread. btw this individual is on this thread. you do the math.......being a jerk is not a great way to get someone to return to this site. i was simply trying to inquire about the content of the thread.
Where was the question? Sorry little asinine jerk, I can count. I don't appreciate being called a prick for pointing out the error in your statements. If you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't post erroneous statements on the forum. You're the one who was bragging about doing 3 and 4 passes and the CCE apps that do that aren't Basic. Don't feign ignorance as an excuse, the descriptions are all over the place, so you should have known. You were bragging about what you'd learned on the forum. Sorry git. You weren't paying attention or not asking questions. It takes a crappy PC to take 3 1/2 to 4 hours to do a single pass, that added the thought you were using something other than Basic. I only raised the question. You could have said something then. Instead you prefer to wait and act like an asinine little jerk making your smug little remarks. It doesn't go over well and I doubt many of my fellow members care if you stay or not with the way you have acted.
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CCE Basic does not have a 2 pass limit. i use it every single day with 4 passes. before anyone asks, yes i purchased it from Visible Light for $58. i have used it with a number of different passes, all with no problem...
Not questions, untrue statements (not referring to the purchase).
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i am still suprised that this has not been fixed though. (On finding out that Basic only does 2 passes.)
By the way, there is nothing that needs to be fixed about CCE. Just learn what the program does. As was pointed out, CCE isn't going to give you a $2000 program for $58. Before you start trying to be helpful, learn something to be helpful about. Attacking other members doesn't qualify nor does posting a batch of untrue information.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 00:12
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Junior Member
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29. March 2005 @ 02:08 |
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Ok I received the first Images from HKT3020... I'll publish them as soon as I can... anyone else? :)
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sox2k4
Junior Member
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29. March 2005 @ 05:10 |
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everyone look at how classy brobear is.......
he acts oh so like an addict of this forum should, don't you think?
i will say that if software allows you to change a setting that it isn't capable of changing to, then yes it does need to be fixed. that is the difference between clean code and an inexperienced programmer. that is why software is tested before it goes public. and list goes on and on.
also it would be nice if you could grab MY quotes when you start replying to them. learn to read genius.
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 1.79ghz - Compaq notebook
512mb ddr-sdram (pc2700)
100gb Seagate internal (5400rpm)
160gb AcomData external (7200rpm)
Plextor PX-716UF burner
19" Dell Ultra Sharp 1905fp flat panel
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sox2k4
Junior Member
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29. March 2005 @ 05:24 |
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"Something sounds fishy. 3 passes with CCE Basic. The time for 3 passes sounds about right, but the app looks all wrong. 2 + 1, the extra pass equals about $1900 more. I would have invested in a newer PC. Could this be some more of those trials without watermarks?"
you tell me if that is accusing me of stealing? i think its pretty obvious what the intent was. i am sure that brobear is the most honest individual on this forum and has never done anything wrong - thus he can hop up on his soapbox and preach. whatever.
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 1.79ghz - Compaq notebook
512mb ddr-sdram (pc2700)
100gb Seagate internal (5400rpm)
160gb AcomData external (7200rpm)
Plextor PX-716UF burner
19" Dell Ultra Sharp 1905fp flat panel
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squizzle
AfterDawn Addict
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29. March 2005 @ 05:55 |
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Quote:
i will say that if software allows you to change a setting that it isn't capable of changing to, then yes it does need to be fixed. that is the difference between clean code and an inexperienced programmer. that is why software is tested before it goes public.
That's not very nice things to say about the programmer. Could you do better?
This is some of the best software out there, just remember that.
Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html
My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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sox2k4
Junior Member
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29. March 2005 @ 06:04 |
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ok, um people, didn't insult his dog or the wife. i simply said - if the freaking program can't do 4 passes, don't allow it to have a setting that can be changed to 4 passes or 50 passes. not that hard to do.....lock the field to a value of 1 or 2 if that is all its capable of.
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 1.79ghz - Compaq notebook
512mb ddr-sdram (pc2700)
100gb Seagate internal (5400rpm)
160gb AcomData external (7200rpm)
Plextor PX-716UF burner
19" Dell Ultra Sharp 1905fp flat panel
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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29. March 2005 @ 12:01 |
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sox2k4
The setting multiple passes isn't done in CCE it's done in Rebuilder. Remember that when we're encoding with RB/CCE we're also using other applications that are intergrated for a single purpose and all are being given commands to by RB.
regarding brobear
Some of us have been working this thread for months and during that time we've encountered numerous and often frustrating obstacles to overcome. Often these obstacles were harder because those that we were helping were either using trial version or were disingenuous about the nature of their problems. Many of these problems occurred because those that we were helping failed to fully disclose their setup's (cracks and equivalents)and as a result we were left scrambling and floundering for answers that we were unequipted to answer. Although there are no excuses for assuming the worse of someone withoug all the facts, I think that once you've at this for 9 months you'll understand a bit more.
I can tell by your posts that you want this reconciled and I think that once you get to know brobear you might even find a friend in him.
Let the conflict end here! Both of you.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 14:24
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brobear
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29. March 2005 @ 14:04 |
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@sox2k4
We've got another one. At least Ozzy and Nolos knew a bit more about software. Guess you have never heard of a user manual. We know you haven't read very much of the forum. You are acting like another one of the "wonder children"; you have to be a child to act so juvenile.
And yes, I intimated to your using pirated software. That was before I found out you are just ignorant and don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. You may have purchased CCE Basic as you said, or your mom and dad did for you. You're just too ignorant to understand it's proper use without someone spoon feeding you the "how to" one bit at a time. CCE just happens to be one of the most respected names in software. It's interesting you know more than the authors, but don't know how it works. I'd say they intended their product for someone with a higher IQ or older age bracket.
Now that I know what I'm dealing with, you're only worthy of being ignored. You bring nothing to the forum except a troublemaking attitude and the opinion you know more than everyone else. Either that or you're another one of those characters that just like to start an argument. It was your off the wall comments that illicited a comment in the first place. If you don't know what you're talking about, you should stay out of conversations. Every time you've opened your trap so far, you've just shown your further ignorance.
If you want to participate in the forum, I'd suggest hanging around and learning from the likes of Sophocles, bigorange, Rockas, and the others. It does no good to try to act as though you know more than they do or the software authors. You're welcome to stay if you want to behave and participate without trying to start a fight. Your continued bad behavior will just lead to everyone ignoring you and continually ignoring and/or contradicting any thing you have to offer.
Also, you will notice I didn't say anything derogatory about you until you started your personal attack. If you'd asked a question about software or it's usage, you would have found I would have been more than willing to help. Plus, if you had paid attention in the other thread, you would have noticed other prominent members commenting on pirated software besides me. As I pointed out, my mistake was in assuming you might know what you were talking about. For that I am sorry. After all, you are the one who said you were doing 3 and 4 passes, which meant a program other than CCE Basic.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 14:17
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zilexa
Newbie
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29. March 2005 @ 14:29 |
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Hi there. I am new on this forum but not unknown with Rebuilder.
I have created a package that installs DVDdecrypter, Avisynth (with the neccesary plugin), DVD-Rebuilder (with passes set to 5 (= 4 CCE passes) and Quality Prec. to 24), CCE SP 2.67 Trial and ECLCCE.
This installs silently and creates only the 2 shortcuts in Starmenu necessary: Rip DVDs (starts decrypter) and Copy DVDs (start Rebuilder).
So this results in: a very easy to use DVD-Rebuilder... nothing to set/install...
Did this to make it easy for everyone. After reading lot's of newbie questions in the Dutch topic.
http://zilexa.spymac.net/EasyDVD-Rebuilder.exe
Now I am VERY interested in the results of this experiment. But I do not see why to compare 2 PASSES with 10 PASSES, since no one will use 10 passes.. even if there would be a difference.
Why not compare 2 passes VS. 4 passes instead?
I already have a copy of a 4 passes LOTR Two Towers (special Ed. 1 DVD containing movie, 2nd containing extras, did the first one).
Also do NOT forget! : You have to set Rebuilder to 5 (for example) instead of 4, if you want 4 passes, since the first one is not a Pass!
BTW: to use SP longer than 30 days... P2P is your friend ;).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 14:52
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brobear
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29. March 2005 @ 15:08 |
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jdobbs, the author of RB has found the best default settings so far to be VBR_Bias=25, Quality Prec=16 and passes=? (3 or 4 for SP is about the norm, some people like more) 2 is max for Basic, more than 2 and it defaults to 1.
CCE SP Trial 2.67 set to 4 passes starts out 1/1, and then goes, 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 for a total of 4 passes when set to 4. All passes were functional on the software I used. With 2.70 SP Trial, the passes start 1/4. The way the software is set to count the passes is different, but when set to 4, all 4 are functional.
zilexa
Where did you get the info that the 1st pass in SP 2.67 wasn't really a "Pass"? If not a pass, what is it doing? If you put 1 pass in, that would mean a 0 setting by your math. The quality may not be as high with a setting of 1, but you will get files started in the D2VAVS folder (in output folder).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 15:10
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sox2k4
Junior Member
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29. March 2005 @ 17:40 |
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brobear you are a joke dude. too bad you couldn't listen to Sophocles request to end it here, but i will out of respect for a true AfterDawn Addict.
anywho - could some content return to this thread??
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 1.79ghz - Compaq notebook
512mb ddr-sdram (pc2700)
100gb Seagate internal (5400rpm)
160gb AcomData external (7200rpm)
Plextor PX-716UF burner
19" Dell Ultra Sharp 1905fp flat panel
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brobear
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29. March 2005 @ 20:11 |
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sox2k4
Quote:
anywho - could some content return to this thread??
It already had until your untimely interference once again. Call names as you will, you're once again showing your juvenile behavior. It's a childish ploy to call names when there is no excuse for your poor behavior. You've made ill advised assertions and have added nothing positive anywhere I've noticed. Allowed to run free, you would have been another huge source of disinformation to lead beginners astray. Hopefully, you will keep your word and say no more until you've learned something worthwhile to add.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. March 2005 @ 20:44
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zilexa
Newbie
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30. March 2005 @ 14:15 |
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brobear
I think we mean the same!
What I was saying is, if you set VBRpasses to "4", this means CCE will use 3-pass encoding.
this is not something I found out... it is clearly mentioned on several guides..
ALSO you can see it for yourself! set Rebuilder to 5 passes, *click the CCE icon while encoding* and you will see, it first does something 1/1 and then goes 1/4 2/4 3/4 4/4 these four are the encoding passes!
BUT if you set Rebuilder to 4:
it goes 1/1, *1/3 2/3 3/3* --> these 3 are the encoding passes!
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brobear
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30. March 2005 @ 15:34 |
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zilexa
Interesting... You may be able to solve a discussion some friends and I were having. First of all, what quides were you quoting and where can I find the passage you're referring to? Another thing we were wondering about is the encoding. If the original pass isn't also for encoding, what is it doing? Also, what is CCE 2.67 doing when you set the passes to 1? Are you saying it won't encode with 1 pass?
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. March 2005 @ 19:37 |
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zilexa,
I'm not sure why it does it that way but I believe brobear is correct. We also noticed the way it counted passes, seems like eons ago, and i believe the general consensus was that the 1st pass is an encoding pass.
However it wouldn't be the 1st time I have been wrong, could you post the links for these guides that state the 1st pass isn't encoding. Also I'm curious, what is it doing if it's not encoding? If you watch CCE in action it looks to be doing the same thing as subsequent passes are doing. it's just numbered differently......as you stated 1/1 then 1/3,2/3,3/3.
GO VOLS !
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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31. March 2005 @ 03:46 |
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CCE SP counts passes differently than every other encoder (including CCE Basic) but when it does the first pass it's doing all the same calculations as a regular encoding pass. It just doesn't write an M2V file until the second pass. The purpose for separating that pass is that you can do it by itself and then use the VAF file later for a second pass. The VAF file is also updated with every pass so you can stop after any pass and start it again later without repeating the first x passes.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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2. April 2005 @ 19:10 |
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The point is that all passes are encode passes however they're cued. The first pass would be pointless if it didn't have a purpose.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2005 @ 18:35
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zilexa
Newbie
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5. April 2005 @ 10:04 |
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Finally found it!
I read it on the Doom9 forum of DVD-ReBuilder itself:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=4e4eafd17df5c0414e613e8dce1930e8&threadid=74356
aka "DVD ReBuilder: Settings" topic, scroll down, you'll get: "File", "Mode", "Options" --> "CCE Options", b. VBR_Passes
I quote:Quote:
VBR_passes
Sets the total number of passes the CCE encoder makes. NOTE: This setting is not equal to CCE's "passes" setting because CCE does not count the initial .vaf creation pass.
So the first pass creates .vaf (whatever that is, I am not a pro).
Oh and I am also wondering what will happen if you set DVD-ReBuilder to 1 VBR_pass!
In the Dutch forums, it is now been stated the *best quality* is already reached when doing 3 CCE passes.
But the encoder's result will be more precize on the ultimate filesize if you use more passes.
That is why 4 CCE passes is a save option.
(This was stated after several reports about filesize too large for the DVD (instead of 4,37 GB it was 4,42 or something) when using 3 CCE passes. Changing to 4 passes helpt. This was tested by others also.
BTW I now do all my movies using 3 CCE passes, if it may occur filesize is to big, it is very easy to do the 4th pass: open the ECL files with CCE, set CCE to do 1 pass only and to use the old *.VAF file. That's it!
(BTW this was posted by DeeD2K2 in the Dutch forum, I never had to do this, not yet).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2005 @ 10:17
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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5. April 2005 @ 12:36 |
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DVD ReBuilder Settings (v0.69):
CCE Options
CCE Basic (2.67+), CCE SP (2.66+), CCE SP (2.5)
Used to Select the version of CCE you are using.
One Pass VBR (w/Analysis) EXPERIMENTAL
DVD-RB performs a analysis of the video and then encodes with CCE One-Pass VBR mode. This requires half, or less, of the time for a normal CCE encode, but output size is not guaranteed and quality will be less than the standard Multi-pass method. See this thread for more details.
Advanced (Expert) Settings
These settings are for advanced users, and do not have to be changed from the default. More information can be found in the CCE FAQ, Q. 7.
VBR_Bias
This setting controls how CCE distributes the bitrate. To quote jdobbs:
"When you do your first pass the bit allocation per frame/gop is set based on a constant quality. The bias determines how much weight is given toward keeping that allocation. Setting it higher prevents wild swings in bit allocation between frames/gops. Setting it lower makes the encoder allocate more bits to high demand areas as needed and less to low demand. ...The higher you set this value, the closer you get to CBR rather than VBR."
VBR_passes
Sets the total number of passes the CCE encoder makes. NOTE: This setting is not equal to CCE's "passes" setting because CCE does not count the initial .vaf creation pass.
Quality_prec
Also known as Image quality Priority in CCE 2.5 and Quantizer characteristics in CCE 2.66 +. This setting ranges from 0-64, but is scaled for CCE 2.5 which uses a 0-100 scale.
This setting controls whether CCE gives priority to the fine details of the image, or evenly colored flat areas. A low setting will give priority to details, but could result in blockiness or color banding. A high setting will favor flat areas, but could result in edge artifacts.
(What you put in was part of the CCE options settings for RB)
Strange, the encoder engine is supposed to be the same in Basic and SP, with SP having the extra bells and whistles and does extra passes. That means at 2 passes there is a filesize problem. Not anything I've noticed. Filesizes routinely come out about 4.31 to 4.33GB for Basic and the SP set to either 3 or 4 passes. With RB and CCE, filesize has not been an issue. For many that have had file size problems, a clean install of the program setup has often repaired the problem. That tends to indicate that the program setup became corrupted in some manner and that the built in ability of RB and CCE in the default setting is not at fault when the program is functioning properly.
Quote:
DVD-RB performs a analysis of the video and then encodes with CCE One-Pass VBR mode. This requires half, or less, of the time for a normal CCE encode, but output size is not guaranteed and quality will be less than the standard Multi-pass method. See this thread for more details.
Seems the filesize problem is more with the 1 pass VBR setting.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2005 @ 12:58
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HKT3020
Member
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9. April 2005 @ 07:28 |
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Surprisingly enough I was already set on running multiple passes on the Episode II DVD but being that there are not as much as explosions as I had hoped for I'll just run a comparison on the Theatrical cut of LOTR FOTR. I've been busy backing up a few things and now it seems I have some free time to my hands so I'll send a few 10 second clips to Rockas ASAP. Any scenes members out there want to see compared?
I'll be running a 6-pass version on the film and hopefully a few other members will want to take on the rest, if not then I'll do it all but expect the results in a weeks time.
DVD-RB PRO 0.82
Decrypter Latest
CCE SP 2.70.2
2,4,6 pass comparisons. ;-)
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squizzle
AfterDawn Addict
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9. April 2005 @ 07:32 |
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I'll help out. Episode 2 gave me problems. I don't have the theatrical cut of LOTR FOTR, just the regular version.
Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html
My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. April 2005 @ 07:50 |
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HKT
Try Mission Impossible 2, it has an excellent action scene that includes explosions and Helicopters.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. April 2005 @ 07:53
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