|
|
|
Very Strange Problem [Unsolved]
|
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
14. June 2005 @ 14:27 |
Link to this message
|
|
Okay, if anyone gets this one, you may officially be forever known as the man (or woman).
System Specs:
P4 3.06ghz
MSI 478-socket mobo
1GB DDR PC3200 (Kingston)
80GB Seagate
nVidia GeForce 6600GT (71.89)
Creative Audigy Z2
Antec TruePower 430W
Sony DVD-R / CD-RW Combo
Sony DVD-ROM
Okay, so the problem is that my computer likes to freeze up constantly. The display freezes (if a sound was playing, it loops random digital glitches). When I try to reboot the computer, it boots up fine but the monitor never goes from standby to active.
I know what you're thinking: heat issues. The first thing I did was disable the hardware acceleration. Still locked up. I have yet to enable it and it's still locking up. I also went out and purchased a new video card, thinking maybe my piece of crap FX5600XT had finally bit the dust. Same problem occurred even with the 6600GT installed. I tried running the computer with no video card at all, still the same problem. I removed the drivers and reinstalled several versions, but no dice.
So maybe the CPU is overheating? I thought it might be, anyway. I had always flirted with the idea of overclocking, so this was a good opportunity to go out and buy a CoolerMaster liquid cooling system, which I did. It's installed and my CPU temperatures have ranged between 28C and 45C at the time of the lockup. In some cases well below the average operating temperature for a stock processor.
It may help to note that I even have both panels off the case and oscillating fans blowing on either side. Still locks up.
I thought I might have some bad RAM, but I can't get the computer to go through the entire test without locking up. However, it has gotten as far as 45% and showed no errors to that point. It has locked up at different points in the test every time, which leads me to believe it probably isn't the RAM.
I don't think the monitor could freeze the entire computer, so that shouldn't be a consideration.
I got the HD through a scandisk and it seems fine (I know scandisk isn't world-renknowned for accuracy).
After several attempts, a virus scan came up negative and I ran both Ad-AwareSE 1.06 and Microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta to clean up the system.
I tried killing every process I could that wasn't vital to the system...it still froze.
When the freeze actually happens, I get absolutely nothing from the activity display LED. It stays dark without so much as a blink. When I boot the computer and the display doesn't come onscreen, the LED practically stays solid.
Also odd is the fact that I can go to my computer 15 minutes after one of these freezes and it will boot up fine. It seems the longer I leave the computer powered down, the longer I have before it freezes up again.
Another note, I have reset the defaults on CMOS and I have also flashed the BIOS (through the computer and also manually by removing the battery).
It almost seems like my motherboard is overheating, but I don't even know if that is something that is significant beyond affecting the temperature of the CPU.
Anyway, good luck and thanks for the help.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
14. June 2005 @ 15:14 |
Link to this message
|
|
does it happen in safemode??
|
|
Repoman89
Junior Member
|
14. June 2005 @ 15:34 |
Link to this message
|
|
Does it only happen when you boot into windows? If not, try running memtest or something in dos mode. Try running the 2 sticks independently of each other (if you have 2.) Though I don't see why your video would screw up because of a memory problem, since video cards have their own memory
The best I can come up with is there's something with your motherboard like you said, since when it craps out, EVERYTHING craps out and not just a certain thing... and we all know that the motherboard controls everything.
edit: might as well try a spare hard drive that you have lying around (hopefully) since you say that the activity LED goes crazy. If you don't have access to one get a cheap 5gb off ebay for $15 and see if it works
Well, once you solve it, you'll say at least I got an excuse to buy some new stuff.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. June 2005 @ 15:36
|
|
The_OGS
Senior Member
|
14. June 2005 @ 15:49 |
Link to this message
|
Solution probably found in hardware or BIOS setup.
Check Wim's BIOS
http://www.wimsbios.com/
Possibly you have USB, NIC, and ? sharing resources with your Audigy or something like that going on.
Try disabling Com1 and Com2 in BIOS, freeing up IRQ4 and IRQ3 can help your PC to POST (before it even gets to the OS).
If you have a USB or network printer, disable your Lpt1 freeing up IRQ7.
These type of resource conflicts or BIOS misconfiguration can do just like you say - weird unpredictable lockups ;^(
Windows might reassign resources, but IRQ and other conflicts in BIOS
should be addressed before Windows is even installed.
Quote:
I have reset the defaults on CMOS and I have also flashed the BIOS
Well, hopefully you would first flash the BIOS, then load the defaults for maximum reliability, and then if everything stable load the maximum performance defaults, then review each setting individually with the help of Wim (and your mobo manual).
Good luck,
Regards
ABit AB9 Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 2.4GHz
2GB OCZ PC2-6400 Platinum XTC R2
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB
Enermax Liberty 620W
320GB/16MB WD, 150GB/16MB Raptor
Plextor PX-755SA DVD (SATA)
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
14. June 2005 @ 18:25 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thanks for the replies..
In regards to whether this is isolated to Windows: No, this happens at any point from the time I power on the computer. I tried running memtest86, never could get it to complete a test before locking up.
An update on the problem: when I restart the computer after a lockup, it IS going through a full boot into Windows and running fine. I discovered this after leaving it on post-reboot (while the display did not boot up) and then powering down manually. I left it alone and came back (to get the video booted up) and when I booted it up it stated that Windows had not shut down properly. Based on this, I'm almost positive that it is not a problem with the HDD.
OGS, thanks for the info and the website. I'll print that up before my PC tanks again (if typing this post didn't take too long) and see if I can't get this set up.
On a weird side note, I have a Saitek Gamer's Keyboard and the damn thing won't recognize prior to Windows booting up. My PC recognizes any other USB/PS2 hookup fine, but not this keyboard.. I have to boot up with an old spare in order to tweak the BIOS.
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
14. June 2005 @ 18:36 |
Link to this message
|
|
if you have or can borrow a pci videocard to see if agp slot is the problem
|
|
The_OGS
Senior Member
|
15. June 2005 @ 06:32 |
Link to this message
|
USB keyboard support at POST must be specifically enabled in BIOS.
Default is to have OS administrate USB keyboard, so no keyboard at POST...
Enable BIOS support for boot from USB keyboard, should fix problem...
It is good to realize this is not a Windows problem.
Quote:
this happens at any point from the time I power on the computer
Trust me, when you get this sorted your Windows should FLY...
well, at least be rock-solid :^)
L8R
ABit AB9 Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 2.4GHz
2GB OCZ PC2-6400 Platinum XTC R2
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB
Enermax Liberty 620W
320GB/16MB WD, 150GB/16MB Raptor
Plextor PX-755SA DVD (SATA)
|
|
Starbuck1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
15. June 2005 @ 07:12 |
Link to this message
|
|
Noctis, can you get your hands on a PSU tester?? They are relatively cheap (about $15.00) and worth their price in gold!! I would love to see if it's the Power Supply Unit causing the issue. Let us know. Thanks!!
ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe I875P
3.4 GHz Pentium 4 Northwood
1 GB Kingston
Plextor 716A Dvd-Rw
74 GB WD Raptor SATA HD@10000rpm
200 GB Maxtor HD@7200rpm
GeForce 6800 GT
|
Senior Member
|
15. June 2005 @ 09:00 |
Link to this message
|
|
if you have tested everything else it does sound like the power supply to me. the only other thing i can think of is either a damaged cpu or a short on the motherboard that happens only when a piece of metal expands with heat and touches where it shouldnt.
you say if you leave the pc off longer then it takes longer to freeze up then this definately sounds like something to do with heat somewhere in the system.
i am on a situation like that i would consider taking everything out of the case, dissasemble the whole pc, dust it all off with an air duster, reapply some new thermal paste to the cpu and put everything back togeather.
if this still dosent solve anything i would think about finding a friend with components you can borrow and test such as cpu, ram and psu.
i know from experience though there is nothing worse than buying a new component to find out the old one worked fine :)
We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent...
J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
heybilly
Member
|
15. June 2005 @ 09:21 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yea maybe try a new pw supply... but one thing to check is the memory timing in the bios, try setting it to the slowest timing
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
15. June 2005 @ 17:51 |
Link to this message
|
|
Okay, another update...
As far as the IRQ stuff.. I've never messed with that before. I found myself a bit surprised, but I have no clue how to manipulate those settings. I think my BIOS might be a bit scant on features, unfortunately. I have an MSI mainboard. The only IRQ settings I found that I could set were assigning IRQ numbers to IRQ slots (i.e., IRQ 1/5 is set to auto, IRQ 2 is set to auto, etc, through the 4th IRQ slot).
The PSU is maybe two months old. It's an Antec TruePower 430W. I've checked the voltages on it several times and everything seems to be perfectly normal and well within the acceptable operating ranges.
Other than that, I flashed the BIOS again and loaded the defaults again. The only setting I'm not sure about is "Default Graphics Adapter" which is set to PCI, but I'm definitely running an AGP card in an AGP slot.
I'm almost out of ideas here. I don't have onboard graphics, so I'm trying to get my hands on a PCI graphics card to test that theory. Failing that, I'm going to take my computer in to be thoroughly cleaned by a shop (I don't have time) and I may just have them go ahead and do diagnostic work. This will be my first time in 12 years of computing that I will not have been able to fix something on my own. Ouch.
EDIT:: Just a side note, I also monitored the mobo temperature and it is staying between 32-40C, so it is definitely not overheating.
EDIT:: Just became a Google Certified Expert on IRQ conflicts. Viewed all the IRQ assignments in Device Manager and no duplicate assignments.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. June 2005 @ 18:15
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
15. June 2005 @ 20:54 |
Link to this message
|
Did some more research and found this on MSI's site:
Quote:
Verify that video card is supported
? Many of the newer chipsets will not support 3.3v AGP cards, only 1.5v AGP cards can be used on many of the P4 chipsets.
? Motherboards that require 1.5v AGP spec will list requirement in manual.
? Check with video card manufacture or verify ?Golden Finger? (figure below) to determine if video card is 1.5v or 3.3v AGP spec.
And then this on another forum:
Quote:
Because speeds must be backwards compatible, Signalling Voltage is where incompatibilities arise. Basically:
* All 8x cards are 0.8v AGP 3.0 spec
* 8x cards will fit in 1.5V slots, and can tolerate the voltage, but will NOT run properly
* 4x cards can be either 1.5V or 0.8V
* 2x and 1x cards are either 3.3V or 1.5V
* Except in the case of the 8X cards, using the wrong voltage card with the wrong motherboard can result in damage in card and board
* If you install a card of incompatible voltages with the motherboard's specs, the card will NOT run
The connectors on AGP video cards are keyed in such a way that you can only install equipment that have compatible Voltage keyed connectors. Normally the key of the card determines its signal voltage. AGP 1.0 and AGP 2.0 cards using a 1.5V key will signal at 1.5 volts. However, AGP 3.0 devices can tolerate 1.5V - they won't be destroyed, they just might not work properly.
Thoughts?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. June 2005 @ 20:54
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
16. June 2005 @ 10:02 |
Link to this message
|
|
what is the model # of your motherboard if it is msi???
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
16. June 2005 @ 17:22 |
Link to this message
|
|
Motherboard Specs:
MSI PT880 Neo-SR (MS-7008)
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
16. June 2005 @ 19:18 |
Link to this message
|
|
|
Senior Member
|
17. June 2005 @ 10:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
i cant see it being anything to do with the agp slot tbh
We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent...
J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
17. June 2005 @ 19:24 |
Link to this message
|
|
Another update...
I've applied new thermal paste to the card and insured the fan and heatsink are clean and working properly.
I attached a heat sensor to the GPU and found that it is well within normal operating temperatures.
I'm still trying to get my hands on a PCI Express card to test that theory.
Could the AGP slot possibly have some sort of physical damage that is causing a short?
I really think this is all going to come back to the video card and/or AGP slot. When I leave my computer off for awhile, I can usually surf the web without it locking up after 20 minutes. But if I jump into a graphics intensive game, it locks up within 5-10, no matter how long the computer has been idle.
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
17. June 2005 @ 19:39 |
Link to this message
|
|
pci card not pci express as totally different slots
|
|
fuggedup
Junior Member
|
18. June 2005 @ 05:39 |
Link to this message
|
|
take the ram to bestbuy *they sell the same ram* tell them to test it
takes all of about 1 min or so to test.
i belive thats the problem as i have had the same problems before with some ram
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
18. June 2005 @ 17:52 |
Link to this message
|
|
Sorry, I meant PCI not PCI Express. My mobo doesn't support PCI-E anyway.
About the memory.. could it be that it locks up when I play a game with a heavy load because it's loading the RAM up and finally hits the bad spot?
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
18. June 2005 @ 18:20 |
Link to this message
|
|
if have more than 1 stick of ram than try 1 stick at a time to see if game freezes still or not
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
18. June 2005 @ 19:09 |
Link to this message
|
|
Okay, I tested the memory. That's not the problem.
Could it be that my PSU is bad or simply not enough?
It only has 20A at maximum output, which is what is recommended for the 6600GT. Thing is, my computer was locking up with my crappy FX5600XT as well.
Aside from the vid card, I also run the following periphs:
1 HDD
DVD-R/CD-RW
DVD-ROM
Audigy 2ZS
Could it possibly be that my PSU just isn't cutting it? Anyone know what the recommended amperage on the 12V rail is for the FX5600XT?
|
|
Noctis
Junior Member
|
19. June 2005 @ 05:38 |
Link to this message
|
|
It's me again. Still troubleshooting and things just keep getting more strange.
Yesterday I lowered my resolution and raised the refresh rate on my monitor. My PC didn't freeze up on me after an hour of surfing the net. I left it on overnight and no problem.
Thinking I might have found the problem (and pissed that it was going to take a resolution I didn't want to fix it) I opened World of Warcraft, the most taxing game I own. My PC froze within moments, as expected.
I've ordered a new PSU for the sake of having a better one anyway. It's got dual rails on 12V and puts out 28A at 12V, much better than the 20A I get right now.
When I get home this evening, I'm going to disconnect my DVD-R and DVD-ROM and see if I still have problems.
|
|
Xian
Senior Member
|
19. June 2005 @ 06:37 |
Link to this message
|
I remember reading about MSI having some capacitor problems on some of their motherboards a while back. They would bulge and split and after that there would be random lockups.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3594#post3594
That link has some pics of bad capacitors, scroll down a little to see them. I have seen that happen with other manufacturers besides MSI too. There was a very large supplier of capacitors that used a bad electrolyte forumla. They supplied many major manufacturers with capacitiors. About all you can do is replace and resolder if you have those skills, or replace the entire motherboard.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
19. June 2005 @ 09:18 |
Link to this message
|
|
done that numbers of times!!!
|
|
