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Intel P4 vs AMD
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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11. January 2006 @ 17:33 |
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brobear
The readings aren't abnormally high they're right on depending on the quality and make of ones memory.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. January 2006 @ 17:36
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Distorded
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11. January 2006 @ 17:38 |
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I ws sitting here watching CPU-Z and it jumped up while opening limewire. So the cool and quiet technology AMD has is giving this false but at the same time true reading.
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brobear
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11. January 2006 @ 17:48 |
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Sophocles
Not terribly different, but abnormal when you consider it is outperforming even other AMDs in the same line that cost more; at least according to the benches anyway.
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Distorded
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11. January 2006 @ 17:55 |
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Take a look at this AMD program i found. Does this say anything?
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64026402
Senior Member
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11. January 2006 @ 18:33 |
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Your processor is reading accurate. With cool and quiet on an E6 core the speed and voltage will auto adjust way down and pop up to full speed as needed.
Run CCE and cpu-z. The reading show go up to normal during encode.
I don't run cool and quiet. It is defaulted off on most aftermarket boards but on OE it is on normally.
The new E6 core 3800+ X2 is a little faster so I hear. I have the E4.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. January 2006 @ 20:50 |
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I have a question for all. I've been looking into buying a cooler for my CPU. I looked into Zalman (thanks to Sophocles) and discovered a model CNPS9500 LED. It has a copper heat sink and 6 interconnecting heat pipes that go into a condenser layout and 2 92mm ball bearing fans with blue LEDs. Even with 2 decent sized fans, it runs at 27.5db which should be a great improvement over my "Stanley Screamer" Prescott. I want to use it now to try and tame my 3.0/800/1024 P4. I've been playing with my manual overclock settings and so far it will run with no glitches up to 3.73 (does this mean that my memory is fairly good?). The problem is that it will only idle or run programs with low CPU demands. Any heavy CPU load and the Asus bios shuts it down because the CPU has exceeded 70C. I'm not about to risk the CPU by raising the CPU temp limits.
I figure that if I buy it now and use it on my P4, then switch it to my building 64x2 4400+ which I ordered the case, 1 Power supply and 1 Raptor 150 today. I'm going to use it in my P-4 to get a feel for the difference in performance when I install it in the 4400+. It works on both sockets 478 and 939 so no problem there. Then when the new machine is nicely tuned, I'll restore the settings on the P4 to 5% with the stock Intel cooler and put it up for sale.
I really gave some thought to buying the Opteron 175 but if I spend any more money right now, I'll divorce myself! Besides, Sophocles and I would be popping the circut breakers attempting to better each other's benchmarks! Another $1000 or so, and I'll have a monster on my hands. I'm starting earlier than planned because I found out that the main benefit of giving up driving is that your wallet actually has money in it the day before payday. I bought me a Razor E200 electric scooter to get me to and from the train so my monthly transportation costs are only $218. I used to spend that in 2 weeks. Some guy told me that an old guy like me looks pretty silly zipping down the sidewalk on a scooter. I just smiled as I counted the extra 100 or so dollars I save (and put away) every 2 weeks.
Sincerely,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. January 2006 @ 20:52
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brobear
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11. January 2006 @ 20:55 |
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Thanks Donald. Does the variation between the E4 and 6 account for the difference in the Sandra comparison bench (more than likely done with the E4) and the bench done by Distorded? That's a nice improvement, going from the performance of the 3800 X2 to better than the old 4000.
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Senior Member
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11. January 2006 @ 21:01 |
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I figured something wasn't quite right....but yeah, Cool N Quiet will do that. You'll also find those with laptops seeing the same kind of results, asking about why this program only shows their system running at half the speed they knew it was supposed to be.
It didn't even occur to me that you had that option running when you posted those benches.
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brobear
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11. January 2006 @ 21:24 |
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theonejrs
You're not stable, so that really doesn't say much about anything. What memory are you currently using in your PC? Sophocles is taking his nap and I've not heard from the Donald in a bit. When they get back on, they may have further comments for you. From what little I know, you're supposed to up the settings till it starts to become unstable and then back off to the stable setting that won't overheat the components. The Zalman will help, but will it be enough and soon enough?
I don't know what you'll learn, except that a good cooler will help on anything you're pushing to the limits.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. January 2006 @ 22:05
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64026402
Senior Member
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12. January 2006 @ 02:44 |
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The Zalman is a big HSF and can big problematic to install if there isn't a lot of room.
If you enjoy spending the time then try it out. If quick and easy is what you are looking for then reseach the tests for HSFs on the net to find the best compromise.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. January 2006 @ 03:38 |
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Theonejrs
Any high quality after market heat sink and fan can be a bit of a risk depending on your boards layout. 3.73 Ghz is a little high for that CPU and there's a strong chance that another heat sink and fan isn't going to resolve it. Prescott's are notorious for running hot under full load and one that's over clock by almost 20% is definitely pushing things. Take it down to about 3.6 and then try running an encoder or transcoder and see if it will complete. DVD Shrink is excellent for quick testing a CPU.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 08:17
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. January 2006 @ 07:03 |
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The problem is, your memory may accept an overclock at that level, but not let you run any major programs. Consequently, until a proper heatsink is fitted, we won't know. Fit the HS anyway since the CPU must be running hot to cause that temperature from a 20% overclock, but I can't guarantee any success above 10% after you have.
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brobear
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12. January 2006 @ 07:57 |
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Theonejrs
Another thing to note is the installation kit and how it mounts up. Be sure to make sure the Zalman will attach to your board properly. Besides that, Donald brought up a good point; it's sizable, so be sure you have the open space in the case for it. Then when you build later, you'll have to take the same into account. Zalman also makes systems that are less extravagant.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. January 2006 @ 08:23 |
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I could be wrong but I think that you've got your CPU clocked too high. A 10% to 12% is more realistic, 20% for a Prescott is too much. Your system is probably crashing because your temps are rising too high.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. January 2006 @ 08:25 |
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I think that was the jist of his posts, but I reckon stability might have an issue as well, dependant upon memory brand and quality.
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brobear
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12. January 2006 @ 09:04 |
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Sammorris
The "jist" of his post was he went into a lengthy description of what he was doing and planning which obscured his only question,
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(does this mean that my memory is fairly good?).
As for the question, that was answered in short order. You can't tell from an unstable setup. Plus the theonejrs may have mentioned what memory he was using, but I dare not try to sift through mrpsych's posts to try to find it. I'm curious as to what he has in the line of RAM. If he forgot or doesn't know, Sandra will list it for him.
Other than that one question, the rest of us have merely been commenting on what he's done and is planning. I think most of us see the Prescott as one of Intel's lesser successes. The chip isn't a good choice for OCing to begin with. Sophocles is right, 10% with air cooling is about as far as one wants to go with this "hotbox" CPU. I don't think it's worth the liquid nitogen treatment. ;) So, if theonejrs can get the 3.0 Prescott stable at 3.4GHz, I'd suggest he should be happy and leave it alone.
The warnings on the CPU cooler system were just some common sense items to remember when adding accessories. Some times we get carried away with what we'd like and don't do enough research to insure success or long term success. He has to remember that monster of a cooler is going to be hanging on his board and taking up a lot of space. Seems what he should be interested in is not only how it will affect his current setup but the one he is planning (since his intent is to reuse it). That means he has to commit to a board and case with enough space to accomodate his "cooler" without interfering with components and expansion slots.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 09:08
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. January 2006 @ 10:03 |
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sammorris
I should have also said processor stability. He could underclock his memory by dropping the settings to CAS4 or dropping the memory speeds below 200 (166 quad pumped eqauls 664 Mhz)Mhz or both. Even high quality memory won't stabalize a processor that is pushed beyond it's maximum. At this point one would start increasing the CPU voltage to try and stabalize the CPU but since it's being pushed too high already it's going to overheat no matter how good the air cooling is. With water cooling he might be able to sustain the heat. If it's booting and running under lite loads then he should be able to lower it a couple of minor settings. I think that he should be able to reach 3.5 to around 3.6 with 3.5 being more likely.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 10:06
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brobear
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12. January 2006 @ 13:08 |
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Well, the RAM showed up this evening. The processor is due tomorrow. So, I'll be running some memory tests on the "old clunker" this evening. With benches and an encode with RB/CCE, I'll be several hours on this portion. It'll be late tonight or tomorrow before I get to post anything. It'll be interesting to see what good memory and an extra GB of it will do (2GB total PC3200C2).
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. January 2006 @ 13:48 |
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Memory might make a bit of difference but encoding is so CPU dependent that I wouldn't expect any large gains. Still you'll notice a lot of other things moving faster since 2 gigs of CAS2 is not only faster but it will reduce paging file swapping to almost null. Now when you pop in the 3.4 Northwood and that along with more and faster RAM, you're going to see some significant speed increases. Good Luck!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2006 @ 14:11 |
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Brobear, does your desk chair have seatbelts? <G>
Good luck!
theonejrs
On the P4 settings, I seem to believe that a real stable enviroment is usually around 115%-120% and I bet that Prescott would be better suited at the 115% range or 3.45 :)
Quote:
guy told me that an old guy like me looks pretty silly zipping down the sidewalk on a scooter.
I wonder what they would say if I rode my H-D down the sidewalk?!?!? <G>
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2006 @ 17:34 |
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To all,
Thank you for all the responses. I am running PNY Optima 1Gb x 2 PC3200 memory. I can run the prescott at 3.50 and it runs stable. I just don't like the temps topping out during encoding at 68C. The default setting on my MB is 70C. Anything over that will shut down the computer. I do also realize that by stability you also mean heat. The computer doesn't crash or tie itself in knots when running programs but just shuts down to prevent damage to the CPU.
As far as the Zalman 9500 goes, I know I have the room for it because I measured it. I will have more than the minimum clearence required. From what I see with the Asus SLI MB, there should be about the same amount of room as my new case will be the same model as I have now, only black. The push-me-pull-me arangement of the two fans will blow the air right into a Thermatake 120mm case fan exhausting out. The lower power supply 120mm fan will sit right above the cooler so if the heat transfer is decent then the 3 fans should remove a lot more heat than it does now with the stock Intel cooler. Since I have never seen case temps over 34C, I have to conclude that the Zalman should make a reasonable difference in CPU temps.
Sincerely,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 17:37
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. January 2006 @ 17:51 |
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When I said unstable CPU, I meant that at a point even if you're using liquid nitrogen and your temps are way below zero under full load it can still reach a point where it becomes unstable.
Before you purchase your fan review this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835128009
Compare online.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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brobear
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12. January 2006 @ 20:29 |
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Scubabud
Quote:
I wonder what they would say if I rode my H-D down the sidewalk?!?!? <G>
The way they're tightening the law on bikers, they probably would have the local constabulary after your hide. LOL But I see where you're coming from. I've been thinking a new Harley, but my Honda V-Twin retro looks more like a Harley than some of Harley's new bikes do. Nobody seems to laugh much when they see a bunch of grizzled old bikers going by. As soon as I get some extra dollars alloted for big toys, I may still get the HD.
Sophocles,
You're right about the speed. In the real world of encoding, it made no difference with RB/CCE. However, the CPU isn't maxed out and I can surf the web normally while doing the encode. I've got about five windows up and all is going well. Before I had problems similar to a phone modem with me on DSL, slow pages and jerky operation. Before, I didn't dare do anything while encoding and that was with 1GB of RAM. The CPU was normally maxed out. Now it's running between 70-80% load on the CPU. More than enough overhead for me to do many things. With the new processor, if all works well, I should see some improvement in time along with the multi-tasking abilities I'm now enjoying.
Scubabud
No seatbelts, but the arms on the deskchair should hold me in. I can find a tie down if necessary. LOL It's an "old clunker", I don't have too much to fear. Hopefully, it will be noticably faster though.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 20:30
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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12. January 2006 @ 22:53 |
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dont know whether or nots its already been mentioned but it seems that intel messed up when making the P4 cause it can be overclocked to over 5.0GHz... wow.. i forget where i read how it was done though just search in google i guess,,,
"Its so hard to try to be different..."-Apocalypse Hoboken |
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. January 2006 @ 23:12 |
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A Northwood no doubt. THG OCed a P4 to 5Ghz,but the fastest stable speed they could reach was only about 4.3. bearing mind the equivalent rating of CPUs nowadays is around that, that wasn't that much of an achievement.Theonejrs, if your case tmeps are low and your cpu temps are high, then a decent HS will solve everything, ASSUMING it fits without much trouble.
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