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Intel P4 vs AMD
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ScubaBud
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5. March 2006 @ 13:10 |
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Sophocles
What's the date of the Asia article, referring to 15" LCD's and 17" CRT's? <G>
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5. March 2006 @ 13:59 |
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Don't know but at least it's from a believable source. I do know this, that people who do professional video editing or computer drafting and drawing still prefer CRT for its superior all around fidelity. The flicker problem with CRT's are a thing of the past. CRT's are capable of incredible refresh rates that far exceed those acievable on a LCD.
Quote:
Although LCD monitors now exceed sales of CRT monitors by more than two to one, there are still some reasons to consider a bulkier CRT computer monitor. The better CRTs are flat-screen monitors that keep the image clear from edge to edge -- not to be confused with flat-panel LCD monitors. (See our separate report on LCD monitors.) We found the timeliest reviews at CADalyst.com, a Web site for imaging professionals. Many people who work with photos and computer-aided design (CAD) prefer CRT monitors for their generally more accurate color and higher resolution, CADalyst is one of the few publications that still reviews CRT computer monitors.
This one was done in October.
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/computers/computer-monitors/ful...
Quote:
At the end of the last CRT monitor roundup, I expressed my hope that large CRT monitors would continue to be available, and that hope has not diminished. Large CRT displays still offer the best response times and best prices compared with large LCD units. It's not that I don't use LCD displays?I do so with my laptop for in-the-field photo editing and to control my Nikon Digital SLR camera. However, I'd use a CRT display if it were practical. Though LCD displays and their prices have improved, they don't yet offer the qualities of the large CRT displays like those reviewed here.
http://manufacturing.cadalyst.com/manufacturing/article/articleDe...
This one last month:
Quote:
Faster LCD response times are on the near horizon, with several sub-5ms displays due to appear on the market shortly. Though this is not as fast as the 1ms?3ms response time of a typical CRT display, it's a great improvement and brings LCD display technology closer to being a one-size-fits-all technology. In the meantime, if your work requires wire-frame rotations or the animation of complex shaded models, you may well find that CRT displays are more suited to your needs, even though the available selection is growing smaller.[/quote
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/computers/computer-monitors/ful...
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2006 @ 14:00
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ScubaBud
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5. March 2006 @ 15:35 |
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Quote:
I know that a few use ACAD here and that could be a good
consideration for CRT vs LCD
Sophocles
Above is what I said earlier and it seems that what you have listed is agreeing with my quote above. I'm still in total agreement that for certain professionals and maybe some gamers a CRT is needed. If you?re not a CAD enthusiast, (very few are,) the above statements still agree LCD?s are just fine so most have no need for a 100lb 21" CRT on their desk. :)
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5. March 2006 @ 15:47 |
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ScubaBud
I didn't agree with your quote because its wording downplayed its use in CAD not mention in studios such as Pixar. The only real advantages of LCD are they're brighter better in brighly lit offices, great for word processing, they use less power, and smaller in size
You missed the most important use, the one that I use it for, DVD editing and viewing. For Video playback CRT's are better. CRT's color reproduction is 2 to 3 times more accurate than LCD's are. I'm still hoping for the day when the fixed pixel problem can be resolved and I'll be able to buy that 32 inch monitor I've been dreaming of, but not until the color, resolution, and latency issues are resolved.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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5. March 2006 @ 16:24 |
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ScubaBud,
Quote:
Well if you purchase one and are unhappy with it then welcome to the ranks!
Yea, well! It wouldn't be the first time. I've been "ranked" before! Besides it was the only 20.1" widescreen LCD monitor I've found with a recomended resolution of 1280x1024. I went to Newegg and put in Widescreen and 1280x1024 under LCD monitors and the Princeton is the only one they list! Neovo has a 19" widescreen that runs at 1440x900 as it's native resolution but it wouldn't be as tall a picture as my present 19" CRT flatscreen. That and I don't find that (1440x900) resolution listed on any of the video card specs either. Do these LCD widescreens need special video cards?
I've seen both the Sceptre and the Neovo demoed and both look great. I want the Sceptre so I'll just have to keep hunting until I find a video card that will run it! Besides $359 with a 800 to 1 contrast ratio is a great price.
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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ScubaBud
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5. March 2006 @ 16:35 |
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Costco has the Sceptre 20.1 also. Their return policy is no questions asked and at least 6 months for computer related items. That would seem to give you a good oportunity to test it out basically risk free. I believe they carry it in their stores as well. Here is what I pulled on it below:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11097928&whse=BC...
Sceptre 20" Wide DVI LCD
8ms 800:1 300 cd/m2
1680 x 1050 WSXGA+
Digital & Analog Connections
Built In Speakers
$379.99
Item # 957556
Plus Shipping & Handling
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brobear
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5. March 2006 @ 16:57 |
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Always remember that demos are going to make the item look its best.
As for LCD vs CRT. Quote:
I'm not saying one can't get a good picture with LCD or Plasma, just that the better CRTs are the best of the best.
I stated that earlier. I go for the bulky CRT because I do a lot of video work. My computer desk was especially designed for CRT. In other words, size is no problem.
I'm going to purchase a LCD as a space saver to use for limited space situations and portability. So when I think space saving, I think LCD, when I think high quality, I think CRT. Sophocles covered the technical aspects well. I don't know what the testers were viewing that ScubaBud quoted, but I've never noticed flickering on the CRTs I've used. If my only pursuit was surfing the web and maximizing my deskspace, then I might consider parting with my CRT monitor.
The higher price one is paying for LCD isn't for higher quality, but for space savings. In this instance people are willing to pay more for design than function, unless space utilization is considered function. As I said, LCDs give decent viewing images. So put that together with the sleeker appearance and you have a good seller. A good seller doesn't mean it's the best performer, just that it has the balance of features the current consumers want. I realize no one wants to carry a CRT to a LAN party. ;) I just hope that the manufacturers continue to offer the high quality CRTs for my market segment that prefers the higher quality over saving desktop space.
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ScubaBud
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5. March 2006 @ 17:21 |
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Brobear
Just a quick question if you will. With doing video work, how would a CRT benefit a person over an LCD? Are we talking about DVD burning or are we talking about professional video editing?
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5. March 2006 @ 18:15 |
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Quote:
how would a CRT benefit a person over an LCD? Are we talking about DVD burning or are we talking about professional video editing?
There are a number of ways that one can realize the difference. One doesn't just back up a DVD if they want the best quality, they ustilize numerous editing methods and a high quality backup system such as DVD RB and Cinema Craft Encoder or Procoder2. Sometimes one is choosing to deinterlace the DVD or use filters such as undot to fill in dead pixels in the original content. The sharpness and color can be increased or decreased depending on how good you want your backup to be. You can also use it to detect video artifacts such as macro blocking and the mosquito effect. If you just use a quick and dirty method such as DVD Shrink or any other transcoder then monitor quality difference doesn't really matter unless you're discriminating playback quality.
I also do video captures which I used to use ulead to edit with but for the last year I've gone to Adobe premier 1.5 which is a DVD authoring application. I also make screen savers from movies and to do that one has to really look closely at each exported frame. DVD's utilize three types of frames I, P, and B frames. Some parts of the DVD that looks clear with motion is actually an intentional blur that is visually irrelevant because a blur is a natural part of actual motion but when you freeze the frame, instead of getting a sharp still you see the blur effect. A suttle shift forward or back can allow one to hone in on the prefect frame capture which makes for better screen savers.
Here is a link to a screensaver that I made by sifting a DVD frame by frame.
http://www.freewarefiles.com/program_13_127_17546.html
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2006 @ 18:19
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brobear
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5. March 2006 @ 19:15 |
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ScubaBud
I do a lot of amatuer video editing, encoding and the like. Sophocles and I use some of the same programs. He is into editing a bit more than I am. However, the CRT monitors are better suited to our pursuits.
There's nothing wrong with your LCDs if that's what you're happy with. You, along with the majority of consumers, prefer the sleek, space saving size of the LCDs. Some give a good quality picture at their native resolution. However, for best quality across the viewing spectrum (with the possible exception of word processing) the CRT monitors are superior when talking about good equipment. BTW, I have no problem with word processing on my monitor.
Comparing a quality LCD to a cheap CRT with no video card isn't much of a comparison. I suspect the flickering CRTs may be found amongst the lower end items. I try not to use low end components or systems, so I haven't paid much attention to that problem. If the form factor isn't an issue, a person can pick up a better quality monitor for the buck with a CRT.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2006 @ 19:26
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Member
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5. March 2006 @ 21:29 |
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I have the Bfg 6800 Ultra and a NEC Multisync LCD 1700v and my refresh rate is 60 @800x600 (desktop). if I drop it to 56 there seems to be less clarity. if I go to 70 I get blured spot in some places in the text. Is this normal please let me know. All in all everthing looks great games included. Games played at a higher rate.
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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5. March 2006 @ 22:36 |
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To All,
Actually, I am turning the Intel into a home entertainment system. It will be used mainly for watching DVDs, T.V. and music along with an occasional game (Ancient Stuff, Mostly Colecovision). I just want the ability to see my widescreen movies in their native mode on a quality widescreen. The Sceptre's viewing angle is 179 degrees any direction so it should be great for group viewing. When I saw the Demo of the Sceptre we also watched The Incredibles, the entire movie. I was very impressed as I own that one and had seen it a couple of times on my 19". I moved around a fair amount to see where the picture dropped off (I wasn't aware of the 179 degree viewing angle). Since I couldn't get any closer than about 5 feet on a line from the screen, it never did drop off. No hot spoting and no color shift as you moved. The colors were rich and deep with no noticable flickering or bleeding. After about 2 hours of watching the movie I didn't notice any eye strain even though I was a good 10 ft. from the screen most of the time. They said that the movie was running at it's native resolution which filled almost every bit of the screen. They gave us a questionaire after the movie and I crossed everything out and wrote "Magnificent" on it! Back then it was over $700. I wanted it then but I had enough brains not to buy it at that time. Now it's half that price and I want it.
I'm presently waiting for responses from XFX, ATi, nVidia and Saphire as to their video cards capabilities as far as 1680x1050 goes. So far the X800 XT is the only quality AGP card I've found that has this specific resolution. It's about $300!
By the way, they may have been able to do a lot of things to make their monitor look good in demos but I don't know of any way to fudge a DVD. I've had some experience with LCD monitors in the past. My last build for a customer had a 17" and I was impressed with the DVD quality on it. The Customer supplied the monitor so I know little about it. I do remember that it was made by an electronics firm that manufactured quality monitors for other companies .
I want to thank everyone for their help in sort of pushing, shoving and kicking me in the right direction. All the links were helpfull and very usefull. I learned a lot. If I there was such a thing as a widescreen 20" or so CRT that had high quality, I would buy it! But since that CRT doesn't exist and probably never will, the Sceptre will be my choice.
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2006 @ 22:37
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brobear
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6. March 2006 @ 00:40 |
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Theonejrs
Your Newegg search may have shown only one 1280x1024 LCD monitor at 20.1 inches, but there are 92 listed at 19 inches. Does the 1.1 inch difference matter so much?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2006 @ 00:49
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ScubaBud
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6. March 2006 @ 01:16 |
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Brobear
Pixel Pitch .255 = 20.1? vs .294 = 19? (Some are .255 now) and 16:10 Widescreen vs 4:3 Aspect Ratio
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6. March 2006 @ 02:21 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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6. March 2006 @ 03:46 |
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Sophocles,
Because they are not widescreen!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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6. March 2006 @ 04:13 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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brobear
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6. March 2006 @ 04:32 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2006 @ 05:02
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6. March 2006 @ 05:30 |
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Brobear,
The first one is a lot more than I am willing to spend and the second has a terrible dot pitch (.039). Besides, it's more than twice the price of the Naga III. But I appreciate the input.
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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brobear
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6. March 2006 @ 05:32 |
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brobear
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6. March 2006 @ 05:35 |
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theonejrs
I know what you're saying. It's nearly impossible to find anything else as cheap as the Sceptre monitors.
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6. March 2006 @ 07:42 |
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In fact, none of those deals there are really as good as that sceptre one, but it's hard to get a good deal on a 20" W LCD because they're not the sort of monitors that are often any good.
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ScubaBud
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6. March 2006 @ 13:51 |
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Brobear, you asked the question of theonejrs...
Quote:
Your Newegg search may have shown only one 1280x1024 LCD monitor at 20.1 inches, but there are 92 listed at 19 inches. Does the 1.1 inch difference matter so much?
Forgive me since I assumed that when suggesting 92 19" monitors would usually mean a 4:3 aspect ratio on a typical 19" monitor and not a selected few 19" widescreens, (never even knew they existed for that matter <G>.) My response was suggesting that theonejrs is looking for an excellent quality LCD monitor with one of the best pixel pitch's available such as the .255, not the norm of .294 of almost all 19" LCD's with a few exceptions and of course the fact he was looking for a widescreen monitor as well. <G>
Let me also correct my statement above commenting on 19" LCD's having a .255 PP. They do not. Some of the 19" LCD's have a .264 PP instead of their usual .294.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2006 @ 14:05
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brobear
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6. March 2006 @ 14:42 |
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Actually there's no need to be doing any corrections. We've really gotten a long way from AMD and Intel systems, though we can say they use monitors. ;) Theonejrs pretty much has his heart set on the Sceptre and likes the price. It boils down to personal preference on the LCD monitors, like most other things. If we like the price and the accompanying quality of a particular item, we have a tendency to go with that choice unless we're shown some drastic reason not too. Drastic as in big bucks cheaper or an extreme improvement in quality with a marginal price difference. As for myself, I'll stick to the CRT monitors for the better quality. Lower cost is secondary, but doesn't hurt.
Besides, watching widescreen on the CRT monitor leaves the black segment of screen on the top and bottom. That's where the player controls go. So, I have no problem watching widescreen on my CRT monitor. If it was a tiny monitor, then the images might be too small. Since my monitor isn't microscopic, size isn't a problem. As I mentioned earlier, the larger size of the CRT isn't a problem for me either.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2006 @ 14:48
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6. March 2006 @ 18:31 |
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Brobear,
I wouldn't buy the Samsung for 2 reasons. first is the resolution. 1366x768 would be horrible on a 40 inch screen. There is just not enough pixel coverage for the amount of real estate involved. Second the pixel pitch is very poor at 0.6737. On a 40" widescreen. you would be able to take target practice at the gaps between pixels. The physical space between pixels would more than likely wind up giving you very poor picture quality. At least in terms of clarity. If you have ever seen a .39 or .42 dot pitch CRT, you know what I mean. The whole picture is there but it is not very sharp and sort of murky looking, blurry and indistinct. The closer you get, the more indistinct the clarity gets. Also, it's very tough on the eyes!
The Sceptre Naga III has a pixel pitch of .255, which should be pretty good. The earlier models suffered from tearing problems and a lot were RMA'd back to Sceptre. A lot of that had more to do with the quality of the video cards than the monitor itself. I read all the reviews and I noticed that the people that had good quality video cards had no problems at all! The biggest complaint was (of all things) the blue light behind the "Sceptre" lettering at the bottom of the monitor. Seems like it annoyed a lot of people when the monitor went to standby and blinked on and off.
I've done a lot of research on LCD monitors and this one seems to be an excellent balance between price and performance. There are better widescreens out there but you have to spend more than $900 to find one with better specs. There are also some great widescreens available as well but at $1500 or so It's just not worth the difference in picture quality to me. I can't wait to get it! If money were the total issue I would buy the AG Neovo AGM CW-19 Black 19" 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor for $299. As far as I am concerned, both are great bargains. I'll let you know when I get it.
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2006 @ 18:37
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