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AMD vs Intel, Building PCs
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brobear
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12. February 2006 @ 05:42 |
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elusiv1
As I pointed out elsewhere, you're paying about $300 for the 200MHz difference between the 175 and 180. It's just a matter of where you want to start. Sophocles has his 175 clocked to 2.67GHz and running stable with air cooling. How much higher will a 180 OC and stay stable?
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siber
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12. February 2006 @ 05:46 |
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Thanks, all of you, that is exactly what I needed to know. 64026402, I even went to check quickly what you could have meant with 'better binning'. I think I understand.
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Senior Member
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12. February 2006 @ 05:49 |
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Thanks brobear and Sophocles, I have chosen the 175 becuase of "bang for buck" as you guys mentioned earlier. I've got a good motherboard, memory, cooling...etc.etc I need some help with a CPU cooler, any help would be appreciated. My bios is flashed to 1014, what bios are using Sophocles?? I figure anything above 1011 and you should be fine...thanks
Q9550@4.0ghz,Gigabyte EP45-UD3P,OCZ Vendetta 2 cooler,VisionTek 4870X2,1TB Samsung Spinpoint SATA/3GB,4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066,LG Blu-ray/HDDVD combo drive,Corsair HX-1000 Modular,Hannspree 28" LCD,Coolermaster Cosmos S
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=473095
2 Xbox 360 Jaspers(flashed w/Ixtreme LT), PS3, Wii
Samsung 4071,Samsung 4095, Samsung 245BW LCD Displays |
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siber
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12. February 2006 @ 05:55 |
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That's quite a nice Christmas tree
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 06:19 |
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elusiv1
I'm using Bios revision 1016.
siber
When a particular core of a CPU is manufactured they all come off of the same assembly line. A Core of a make such as venice are all the same regardless of their rated speed but their individual quality might vary. In the beginning as the chips come off the assembly line they are tested for their tolerance and ability to hit high clock speeds. If the do well then their clock multiplier is adjusted to make them the top of line but if they do so so then they are adjusted to fill the niche at the bottom of the line.
The Opterons are basically the very best of the Toledo cores with supposedly superior silicon as well. They're core name is Denmark but I'd bet the same architecture goes into both the Toledo and Denmark core. Binning is just testing the same chip for variations in indvidual quality within a given line.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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64026402
Senior Member
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12. February 2006 @ 06:23 |
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Sophocles,
I was just pointing out that the Raid tests were setup incorrectly and used mostly tests that would benifit very little from the extra transfer rate of a Raid array. If those benchmarks represent what you do with your computer then you wouldn't get much from Raid 0.
If they had setup correctly and used benchmarks that would tax the array it would have been more informative.
As for Anandtech, I read their stuff but the articles are annoyingly bad somtimes.
I do things that benefit from the higher transfer rates so I use it on 1 machine. My real world is obviously different from theirs.
Donald
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siber
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12. February 2006 @ 06:30 |
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Thanks again, Sophocles. I'll check in with you guys from time to time. Always really interesting. In this threat I don't think I am going to read much from the really 'temperamental' transient members of AD, if you know what I mean. Over and Out.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. February 2006 @ 06:47 |
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Thanks for all the opinions. In an ideal world, I would go with the raptor and another caviar, say 160GB or 200GB, but to be honest I'm not sure that I could afford it, I'm lookin at £1399 as it is. At the moment unless prices dramatically drop I think I'm going to go with the single Raptor 150GB, and split into one 20GB partition for Windows, and the other for installing games, and storing media etc. Hopefully the speed loss won't be too severe with two partitions. I can forsee needing 88MB/s to load Vista, and/or the later big games on DVD9s.
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brobear
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12. February 2006 @ 06:54 |
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Siber,
Noticed no one answered your cooler question. I have a good one listed in the shopping list I posted. The Zalman's are good, but they're a bit on the large side. So, always make sure you have space, especially for the larger ones. Newegg has some listed. Theonejrs put one on his "firecracker" Prescott and tamed it well enough to do some good OC(ing).
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. February 2006 @ 07:08 |
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I'd beware of that term for a processor, you never know what might happen... Hehe. It's difficult to strike a balance between quiet, powerful and low-profile. Unfortunately I prefer all three. Usually means ££££.
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brobear
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12. February 2006 @ 07:32 |
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If you're referring to "firecracker", it's appropriate for the Prescott P4s. They're known for running hot, as in fire, and if OC(ed) without proper cooling, they tend to blow out, crack. Therefor, firecracker is appropriate. But with good cooling, they make a good performing single core processor that benefits well from performance tuning of the system. Theonejrs showed that with his.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 08:17 |
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64026402
We're probably not far apart in our thoughts and I do in fact play games, when I find the time to get away from you guys. But I've read other reviews as well that suggests that Anadtech has it right. Besides running business applications and games and running an actual server, how many other types of use are there? Video encoding? Faster hard disks do provide some encoding gains but not as much as one might think considering that a 7200 RPM hard disk can provide transfer rates that are many times faster than our encoders are capable of processing. Then if one takes into consideratiion the 2 gigs of high speed memory that I have there is plenty of room for read ahead and as a result the hard disk is being used considerably less for Paging.
If you remember the first article that I posted the 150 was compared to the best server drives out there and all though it did a respectful job in the tests the scsi are better for large data transfers. But the article also suggested that WD has awakened to the fact that it is the enthusiasts market that has been driving their sales and as a result they've adapted to market demands. But in their conclsuion storage review had this to say.
Quote:
The Raptor WD740GD in and of itself was no slouch; as shown in this review, building upon its predecessor's impressive legacy permits the WD1500 to vie with and arguably top the fastest 15,000 RPM SCSI drives to stake its claim as the world's fastest when it comes to non-server performance.
If high capacities are relatively unimportant and money is no object, it is the Raptor WD1500, not a 15,000 RPM SCSI unit, that is the drive to get for single-user setups. In other cases where space is a concern and/or funds remain limited, the WD1500 nonetheless succeeds in creating an appetizing conundrum for those torn between massive storage and the fastest performance money can buy.
This last statement from storage review directly correlates to the one made by Anandtech on single disc use although Storage Review weren't testing RAID 0's.
Quote:
There are some exceptions, especially if you are running a particular application that itself benefits considerably from a striped array, and obviously, our comments do not apply to server-class IO of any sort. But for the vast majority of desktop users and gamers alike, save your money and stay away from RAID-0.
If you do insist on getting two drives, you are much better off putting them into a RAID-1 array to have a live backup of your data. The performance hit of RAID-1 is just as negligible as the performance gains of RAID-0, but the improvement in reliability is worthwhile...unless you're extremely unlucky and both of your drives die at the exact same time.
When Intel introduced ICH5, and now with ICH6, they effectively brought RAID to the mainstream, pushing many users finally to bite the bullet and buy two hard drives for "added performance". While we applaud Intel for bringing the technology to the mainstream, we'd caution users out there to think twice before buying two expensive Raptors or any other drive for performance reasons. Your system will most likely run just as fast with only one drive, but if you have the spare cash, a bit more reliability and peace of mind may be worth setting up a RAID-1 array.
Bottom line: RAID-0 arrays will win you just about any benchmark, but they'll deliver virtually nothing more than that for real world desktop performance. That's just the cold hard truth.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2006 @ 08:21
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Member
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12. February 2006 @ 09:29 |
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Brobear, If you a looking for a good water cooling system that doesn't take up to much space, Look into the WaterChill Brand Systems By Asetek...
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. February 2006 @ 09:31 |
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Oh well. Never mind, I'll learn next time.
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brobear
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12. February 2006 @ 09:39 |
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Gottawin
With the processor I have all I need is a heatsink and let the case fan do the cooling in stock condition. OC(ing) a Northwood 3.4 to 3.8GHz is just a moderate change and easily accomplished with air cooling. A good fan-heatsink similar to the one I listed in my shopping list would be more than adequate for the job.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 09:45 |
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I've looked at water cooling and I may one day make the leap but my heat problems are not CPU related so much as they are chipset. I've been visiting the Asetek website quite a bit lately but not for the watercooling systems but rather the Vapochill systems. LOL
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2006 @ 10:45
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12. February 2006 @ 10:07 |
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The stand alone VapoChill unit I had installed keeps the CPU temp at 75 to 92 Fer. , Depending on "WHAT" I am doing at the Time... ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2006 @ 10:17
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 10:46 |
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Gottawin
Which standalone would that be?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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12. February 2006 @ 11:06 |
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XE model for the 939 CS
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 11:09 |
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Gottawin
Could you provide a link to it and a couple of screen shots?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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12. February 2006 @ 11:47 |
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I had a rather interesting development happen with my P4/Zalman cooler. I've been fooling around with the speed of my 120mm case fan. The sweet spot for best temps is 1450 rpm or so. If I raise the speed to max (2500) the cpu runs a few degrees hotter??? Since it's a fairly aggressive fan from a CFM point of view (57cfm), I'm assuming that by slowing the airflow down both the 120mm on the bottom of the power supply and the case fan don't fight each other and collectively pick up more heat in the process. Case temps when warmed up stay about 10 to 12 degrees below the processor temp which tells me that the cpu cooler is removing lots of heat. With the stock Intel cooler the case temps never went over 34C or so, yet the processor ran as high as 68C when oc'd to 3.45 (15% oc). Any attempt to raise the speed higher resulted in thermal shutdown by asus Probe when running the CPU/Arithmatic burn-in continuously at 100% CPU usage. While there isn't a place for a front case fan, there is a panel of vent holes in front of the lower 5 drive bays with room to slip one in front of the bays. I may try and add one there as I don't think that I need more airflow going out but more cool air coming in. As it is now, I can put a piece of bond paper over the holes in the side of the case and it stays where ever you put it just by the airflow. My case has an 80mm fan in the side window that's feeding both 120s and another 80mm on the power supply that helps to shove hot air out the power supply exhaust vents in the back. I may just put an 80 or 90mm fan directly behind the front lower holes and mount it to the bottom of the case with double sided foam tape. I will probably go with the 80mm as the 90mm Thermatake is another very aggressive fan (58cfm) and is pretty noisey at flank speed. Or maybe I'll see about getting another fan-mate II to put on it. Then I should be able to "tune" the airflow better and make the removal of heat more efficient.
Since I plan to use the same model case on my next build (only black this time) this should be a good test, the results of which I can use to keep the future 64x2 4400+ cool and quiet. With the "fanless" passive chip cooling on the Asus SLI Premium MB it should work quite well as I will be able to control the airflow over the MB better.
Sophocles,
I have a question for you regarding your old machine. I know that you have an SLI board but you are only using 1 video card. If you wanted to add another would you be able at this late date to buy a compatible ATI card? 7800GTs are a little pricey right now and if I can get away from needing 2 right away, with the ability to add another say 6 months down the road, I would be very happy. By the way, how do you turn off the auto-eject on the DVD drives?
Sincerely,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. February 2006 @ 12:11 |
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theonejrs
Damn, between you and brobear I've caught up on all my reading. LOL
SLI as you know is for Nvidia cards only but you can use any single PCIe card that you desire. I'm currently using the Saphire X800 pro and it plays everything that I've thrown at it so far with better than 40 frames or more but never below. Two cards in SLI are mostly just bragging rights. I purchased the board mostly for its other features but when the 6800's or 7800's come down in price then I'm ready. I like to think of it as future proofing.
The A8N-SLI premium is a fix for all the flaws in the Deluxe version, expecially the chipset cooling.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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12. February 2006 @ 12:34 |
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Sophocles,
I don't quite know what the difference is but the MB I want is the ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard @$229 (USD). This has a copper heatpipe and heat sinks. Should look nice with the copper Zalman cooler. Whether it's worth the $60 price difference I don't know but knowing Asus, it probably is. With the settup I'm refining now, heat should not be an issue!
Sincerely,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. February 2006 @ 13:10 |
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Unless you're definitely doing SLi, just get the A8N-SLi premium. The 32 model costs extra and the only difference is a double speed SLi controller.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. February 2006 @ 14:01 |
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Sophocles,
I am definately going to do SLI. I may need to use my 5200 PCI card for a starter but I will definately be getting 2 FX5200GTs as soon as reasonably possible. Besides, as I have already learned Copper cools better than aluminum and it looks pretty neat to boot! Since I'll be running the latest version of AutoCad for work, I think I will pay the difference.
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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