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static and dynamic ip
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Senior Member
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19. April 2006 @ 22:05 |
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ok. i need to foward my ports, i know that, and i know how to. Before i knew about static and dynamic ips i just fowarded my ports and it was on dynamic ips. whenever i fowarded it, the router would screw up after several hours. i think the problem is that u need static ip. but my dad wont let me because since dynamic ip is random, it makes it harder for people to track you. so i have 2 questions.
1. if i am right, why is it necessary to use static ip for fowarding ports?
2. which one is better, static or dynamic, in terms of security? my dad says dyanmic is because it is random, but i glimpsed somewhere that static is. Can anyone clarify?
i NEED to foward my ports w/o screwing my router.
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Senior Member
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20. April 2006 @ 07:00 |
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If you're forwarding your ports it means you have a router.
You needn't worry about your IP being static or otherwise if you have a router, because it is the only "machine" on your network that sees your true IP. Your tier 1 IP.
Your computers on the network have IP's like 192.168.1.101, and those are assigned via DHCP on the router. LET IT DO ITS JOB.
IF you force the router and your computer to give you a STATIC tier 2 IP, you're creating a lot more problems than you're solving.
Right now, say there's 3 comps on your network, you're .101, they're .102 and .103 respectively.
You turn yours off, 103 stays on, and 102 gets turned off.
It gets turned back on before yours, then you turn yours on. Chances are, it'll be .101 and you'll be .102. That's no big deal, because you just log back into the router and change the forward to point to .102.
I can't think of how your "router would screw up after several hours", unless it's that your local IP, aka your tier 2 IP, happened to change. If indeed your router is locking up, force a hard reset and/or look for new firmware.
And as for "which is my secure", saying that either one is more secure is an illusion. Having a dynamic tier 1 IP still makes you infinitely trackable, since your ISP ALWAYS keep tabs on who has what IP at what time. So, when the MPAA wants to send you a letter, they contact your ISP w/ the offending IP and time stamp, and you get a letter/disconnect. The only real benefit to a dynamic tier 1, is that if you get banned, you might be able to get back on a site, but there are several other ways to do that significantly more easily.
Having a static tier 1 IP is actually pretty handy. It lets you do lots of fun things you might not otherwise be able to do.
Hope that makes sense. If you still need help, tell us your service provider, speed, router brand and model, and firmware. You can usually get the firmware revision by logging into the router.
Oh...and dynamic IP's aren't anything near random. They're assigned from a pool associated to your location on the node...meaning they can still whois you or traceroute you and find you...if "they" wanted to.
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4thmebcoB
Junior Member
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23. April 2006 @ 19:34 |
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Nice post TomMelee,I was just bored browsing & came across this.I've been reading & trying to understand the difference in static & dynamic IP's(not very cpu savvy)but everything i ever read never broke it down like you did.nice.
Just thought i'd post to say thx...
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a MARINE and his rifle!"
"We signed up knowing the risk. Those innocent people in New York didn't go to work thinking there was ANY kind of risk."
"The safest place in Iraq was right behind a platoon of Marines."
PLEASE PRAY FOR THOSE STILL AT WAR!!!!!!!!!!!
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Senior Member
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24. April 2006 @ 11:24 |
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Roger that feller. :)
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ganaud
Newbie
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25. April 2006 @ 16:33 |
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My ISP *won't* let me use a static IP. I have the Linksys WRT54G wireless router, and some dsl modem from the ISP (haven't checked model, but no software came with it). Nav 2003, Windows Firewall Disabled. Azureus 2.4x. Anyway I can't do port forwarding AFAIK
Still, with a wired connection on PC#1, I have all green smileys (in router's QoS, I prioritized the ports I use: 50000-50003 -- this seemed to fix the NAT errors). When I connect direct to the DSL modems, no problem either.
But Nat tests all fail on any port when I'm connected via wireless (on PC#2). I have twiddled with all the router settings but (don't really know what I'm doing).
-Is this a problem with my wireless adapter (does it have a firewall?)
-Anyone have experience running Azureus with Dynamic IP?
Thanks to everyone here for your posts.
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Senior Member
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25. April 2006 @ 18:41 |
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You guys gotta learn to seriously watch out what you're saying when you say static or dynamic IP.
Actually, you know what? I'll break it down, one more time.
definitions:
static: does NOT change (static rope does not stretch, i.e. bad for lead climbing)
dynamic: changes within a certain range (dynamic rope does stretch, bad for toproping, better for lead climbing.)
tier 1: primary IP assigned to a computer/network
tier 2: sub-IP, assigned by the machine holding the Tier 1 IP, usually begins 192.
DHCP lease: All you need to know is that DHCP assigns your IP address. The lease, just like it sounds, is the amount of time the lease lasts, which is usally quite a long time. Think a day or more. At that point, it rolls over automatically.
Now...
There are several tiers of IP addresses. EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER on i1 (internet:1) has an IP address. Now, if you have a computer connected directly to a modem...dsl, cable, telephone, you have a tier 1 IP assigned to that computer. Whether or not that IP is static or dynamic plays no role in your ability or lack thereof to download torrents. That IP is assigned via DHCP and holds a "lease", which lasts quite a long time...more on that later.
So, do you have a tier 1 or a tier 2 IP on the machine you're looking at?
Simple test: Is there a router between you and the modem? If yes, then you have a tier 2 IP on your computer. If no, you have a Tier 1.
What does that mean for you?
If you have a tier 1 IP, you need to be running a FIREWALL, period. Why? Well...in simple terms, a router is a "hardware" firewall. Any ports that are not forwarded simply appear as "not there" to a computer that scans you for openings. Ports behind a router usually scan as "stealthed."
If you have a tier 2 IP, you need to enable port forwarding on the router to make your torrent work, unless for some reason you really, REALLY want it to go very slowly. It is important to note that the router holds the Tier 1 IP address, meaning it's what websites see (that's how they still know your IP, even if you think it's 192.), and it's what people will be able to log into if they type in your Tier 1 IP address to their address bar.
Ok, so if you have a Tier 1 address at this point, you can stop reading, because you don't need to forward anything, you're done. You still should use a program like Peer Guardian 2, and/or Tor or I2P to protect yourself.
So, you think you have a tier 2 address huh? Let's find out.
Go to start/control panel/network connections. Double click on your network connection. Now, click the "support" tab. Address type should say "assigned by DHCP" and IP address should either begin 192. or 127. You can ignore subnet mask and gateway for right now.
What's important for you is to remember the LAST THREE DIGITS of that IP. If you're a small network, say in your house, it is probably 105 or less. That's the number you need to enter in when you port forward. I'm not going to tell you how to do that though, you can go to www.portforward.com I believe, or you can read your router manual, god forbid.
So, here you are, with a tier 2 IP. What the heck does that have to do with static or dynamic?
Well, like I said before, all the computers on your network SHOULD have their IP's assigned by DHCP, unless you're a sadist AND a masochist and really, REALLY enjoy making your life hell. So...let's say there are 5 computers on your network.
Sally
John
Bob
Susan
Pr0nstar
Great. They all log on in that order, meaning they TURN their computers on after the router is running, and that's the order they log in on. Here are their IP's, or something very similar.
Sally 192.168.1.100, 192.168.100.0, or 192.168.1.101
John .102
Bob .103
Susan .104
Pr0nstar .105
So, if they each want to use torrents, one will have to set his torrent port, in his torrent client program, to...say, 16001, then 16002, you get the idea. Now, each computer needs a forwarding rule.
Sally 16000
John 16001
Bob 16002
Susan 16004
Pr0nstar 16005
Sally has set her client to use port 16000, and has set up a forwarding rule in the router to forward port 16000 to sub IP ending .101
John has one for port 16001, forwarding to .102
Bob has one for port 16002, forwarding to .103
Susan has one for port 16003, forwarding to .104
Pr0nstar has one for 16005, forwarding to .105
Simple, really. Now, what happens if say Pr0nstar accidentally tells his client to use port 16001? Well, the forward rule says to ONLY allow that forward for sub IP ending .102...meaning Pr0nstar will get NAT errors and not be able to download.
So...setting a forwarding rule for 1 range of ports does NOT automatically unlock downloads for EVERY computer on the network, I CANNOT EXPRESS THAT EMPHATICALLY ENOUGH. EVERY COMPUTER REQUIRES A FORWARDING RULE.
Now, let's get complex.
Somewhere along the way, Sally shuts off her computer. Then Susan does. Now, sub IP's .101 and .104 aren't assigned.
Susan turns hers on first. DHCP assigns the first available IP...which is... .101! Now, when Sally turns hers on, she'll be... .104! Will their forwarding rules work anymore? NOPE!
Will it confuse everyone? YUP! Why? Because 3 peoples will work, and 2 will NOT.
THIS is a DYNAMIC TIER 2 IP SITUATION. Yes, your tier 1 IP might be static, but your tier 2 can STILL BE DYNAMIC. That's why you must specify your situation when asking for help.
So...what's the fix?
1. You could enable static IP assigning. Which you don't want to do. Seriously, it sucks. It's only for power users, such as people needing to run a web or mail server from their IP.
2. Learn how to use your router. For me, on my network, I'm usually .101. Sometimes, I'm not. Sometimes my packet8 phone gets that slot because the DHCP lease renews while all the other computers are offline. In that case, I might not be .101 again for a LONG TIME. So, because I would never own hardware that I didn't know how to use, here's what I do.
I log into my router, and go to the "Status" tab. From there, I click "local network", then "View DHCP Clients Table". This pops up a pretty window with all the current attachments to my network, and gives me the name of my computer. Now, if yours is a storebought system, the name might be something like DELL89080544. Mine, is "N0bility". Makes it easy to find. So, I just look at the IP I've currently got, and tab over to port forwarding, and update the forwarding rule. If had had several people trying to get torrents @ the same time, I could change them all in about 15 seconds just from the info available in that Clients window.
Sidebar: This is also where you go to boot leechers on your wireless network, which should be secured, but you have to take the time to do it. Leechers on your wireless network are your responsibility, just like if you're driving and someone in the car has crack...you get busted. So, if you have an unsecured wireless network, and someone jumps on and downloads a movie, YOU get shutdown and YOU get sued. Additionally, CHANGE THE DEFAULT PASSWORD FOR YOUR ROUTER, because all someone has to do to edit your settings is to type in your tier 1 IP, the one currently being held by your router, enter the default password "admin", and turn OFF your security, or just otherwise seriously bork your network.
So, that was long winded, but I feel like it was needed. I can post it again fresh if someone wants to sticky it, lol.
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ganaud
Newbie
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25. April 2006 @ 18:57 |
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Hi, thanks for the explanation. From your description, I have: DYNAMIC TIER 2 IP SITUATION. PC>Router>Modem
I have 2 computers connected to the router, so i can set the range for DHCP to 100 to 101, say. My lease is set for 1 day.
So that means that each day, or every time the other PC gets shut off (if that ends up changing my PC's IP address) I should change the IP (if necessary) in the port forwarding tab? Is this the best & simplest solution?
I find it odd that I never have a Nat error when teh PC is connected to the router with a cable (only when it's conneceted wirelessly)
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Senior Member
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25. April 2006 @ 19:23 |
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YES, that is the best solution. You could try port triggering as well, but I don't find that's any simpler.
And the wireless thinger is Microsucks implementation of a "trusted" device versus a generic "wireless" device.
See, windows automatically trusts computers that are on the same network via traditional WIRES, not so much wireless. So...like...someone could leech your wireless connection, but also have a very hard time connecting to the shared data on your computer, whereas if someone plugged into your router, it would be quite simple.
That's not to say a leech couldn't get to your personal goodness, but it's also why public access points are generally secure amongst computers sharing the connection.
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ganaud
Newbie
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25. April 2006 @ 19:30 |
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Thanks very much for the explanation.
That last bit -- seems to be the rub. Wireless not trusted.
Maybe I should stick with the cable when transferring then. I will check to see whether port triggering is a better solution though.
No way to get the wireless device categorized as 'trusted' i presume?
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Senior Member
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25. April 2006 @ 19:51 |
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Honestly, I've been messing w/ this for a while.
My work laptop goes on 3 different networks. It's trusted on 1, but WILL NOT see the workgroup on the other 2, come hell or high water.
The other 6 wireless computers I administer at work CAN see each other on the network, vis-a-vis "network setup wizard".
I honestly do not know. I've contacted the IT department where I work, and they don't know either.
For clarification, I work in behavioral healthcare...for 1 company in one place. My actual work site is somewhere else, and I administer their network because nobody else knows how.
So yea, I honestly don't know.
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scv91355
Newbie
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27. May 2006 @ 10:58 |
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This is an EXCELLENT thread and I have learned much. But I could use some help from someone, please.
I have had DSL since 1865(hehe). In those days, providing users with a static connection was common in this area. I'd like to upgrade, but I'm sure they will change me to a Dynamic connection.
I have no clue what changes I would need to make to my TrendNet router. (Or Zone Alarm, for that matter)
Any help is appreciated from the wizards here
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Senior Member
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27. May 2006 @ 14:09 |
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No changes, so long as DHCP is turned on in the router, which is probably is. You might have some PPPoE things to set up, but I kind of doubt it.
I'd suggest powering up the new DSL modem, letting it come fully online, letting the router stay off for a good 5 mins, then plugging it into the modem, then powering it on.
It should do it's thing.
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