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Intel vs. AMD
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tgsbfadc
Newbie
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3. November 2006 @ 22:52 |
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Hi to all of you that have already been using this forum.
I'm new here, but have already been using PCs for some years, but now want to start building a system for the first time.
That said, I want to know which CPU I should buy for a PC that will mainly be used for video encoding, but also some games as well as having several major applications open at the same time, such as adobe photoshop pro, and office applications.
I don't want to waste time buying something that won't be able to be upgraded well in the future, as I want to keep the system at least 2-3 years.
I'd appreciate any input from people that may have used both AMD and Intel, to get a feel of how they compare in the real world, as I've read plenty of independant reviews, but want some factual reviews from users.
Cost wise, I'm looking at spending about £1000 on the system (without peripherals) so expect to have about £200 just for the CPU.
I don't need suggestions on any of the other parts except maybe the mobo.
Please can you give reasoning behind any suggestions so I can fully appreciate why something is being suggested to me.
I've never overclocked to any degree before, as my systems have never allowed it, but that is something I'd like as an option as well, as it should keep my system more cutting edge for longer, so any experience with overclocking would also be appreciated from you, such as likely gains in speed and the increases in performance seen in real applications.
Sorry for the extra long intro and question, but I thought it best to say a proper hello and to make sure people understand fully what it is that I'm actually looking for.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. November 2006 @ 00:40 |
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tgsbfadc,
Like the guy in Appolo 13 said, what do you have that's good, that you can use? If you have to start from scratch then think Conroe! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004 on a Gigabyte http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012 MB all the way. If you are planing to upgrade and use some of your old stuff then think AMD 64x2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103751 on a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022 MB ! There's good deals to be had both ways. The links I've provided are just general, just to give you an idea. Your funds will dictate what you can actually do. There's more expensive and there's cheaper, but either way you should be able to put something together that performs well for the dollars you have! You can't go wrong with any of the above as it's all mid-priced quality componants!
You are going to find folks here that are partial to certain brands of just about everything, usually dictated by what they have. As long as you buy good parts to begin with, you should be able to build a very nice system. I just went by what you said you wanted and posted the links to help you see what some good stuff is! There's a lot of good choices out there and some especially good deals to be had. You said that you wanted stuff that you could upgrade more down the line so I stuck with socket 775 for the Intels and socket AM2 for the AMDs. They should be the best choice right now for "Future Proofing"
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. November 2006 @ 00:43
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tgsbfadc
Newbie
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4. November 2006 @ 00:51 |
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I have a Sony SDM 81 LCD monitor, which is fine, and an Good wireless keyboard and mouse.
I've also got a Plextor DVD writer which I will re-use, and a DVD rom drive.
Basically I'm looking at a case, psu, board, CPU, memory and graphics card.
£200 for CPU
£100 case
£200 memory
£250 Graphics
£150 motherboard
£100 PSU
Obviously these prices are subject to what I get each part for, so there may be more money for one thing if something ends up cheaper, or visa versa
But thats where I see the £1K budget being spent.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. November 2006 @ 01:02 |
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If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. November 2006 @ 01:04
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. November 2006 @ 01:07 |
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If you're looking at spending £200 on the CPU alone, get a Core 2 Duo E6600, they're powerful things. No socket really has enough lifetime any more to make a worthwhile upgrade later on it seems, but with an E6600 it should be a fair while before you need to upgrade, and if you go for quality parts, you can overclock them like nuts.
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112706 E6600 £210
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113951 Asus P5W DH Deluxe £146.75 (one of the best Core 2 overclocking boards ever!)
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/115844 2GB XMS2 Low latency £215.66
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/X1900_Series.html - on this page, ICEQ3 X1900GT 256MB priced at £150.39
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/117543 NEC DVD RW Drive £21.90
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/98199 LG DVD-ROM £10.72
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/62047 Floppy disk drive £3.82 - never know when you need one!
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/109552 Hiper 580W Type-M PSU £52.82
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/98938 Audigy SE £15.06
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Zalman_CPU_Coolers.html - on this page CNPS9500AT - £35.24
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Thermal_Materials.html - on this page Arctic Silver V - £7.05
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Samsung_SATA.html - Samsung Spinpoint 250GB on this page at £52.86
Case is pretty much up to you, but I'd recommend buying something above the "extra value" range, chances are they won't look so good in a year's time!
My suggestion is this http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119136 the NZXT Apollo at £49.99 but it's up to you.
Total cost of that lot is £905 without case or delivery, you can have the NZXT Apollo and the total build cost be about £975.
My preferred case, The NZXT Lexa is here http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductIn...roductID=345209 for a total (with delivery) of about £95. A lot, but If you want looks to match your system's performance, I recommend it!
I've tried to make sure that the components in that PC, while powerful, won't annoy you with noise like many powerPCs do, the Hiper PSUs are known to be quite quiet, Zalman CPU coolers aren't too loud, the HIS versions of ATI graphics cards are practically silent, and the case fans of the Lexa pretty much are silent. (inaudble when on their own from >5cm). Samsung Hard disks are also the quietest in their class.
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He_Man
Senior Member
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4. November 2006 @ 02:51 |
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do you people think going to all this effort to get all the parts and build a pc and then it doesnt work is worth all the bother for just saving a few quid? when i say a few quid i mean like £200 but you still get your pc ports and all that in the right place etc etc
plus dont u get it replaced if it goes faulty from a reputable manufacture such as hp
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. May 2007 @ 19:04
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. November 2006 @ 03:22 |
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Yes, yes I do. A Dell/HP system typically costs at least 40% more than it costs to build it yourself, for high end systems like this more like 60%. Alienware systems sometimes 200%. Would you waste an extra thousand quid just to save an hour's work?
PCs are designed to be relatively idiot-proof to build. Unless you just pounce in without reading up at all, you usually come off alright. If you are paranoid about building your own system, you can use http://www.aria.co.uk 's building service, which costs something like a flat £70 on top of your build, which for a system of that cost is pretty OK. Trouble is, all your components then have to come from Aria, and not all those do. Seriously though, if you've got a little time to spare, it's much more rewarding and cost-effective to build your own, then you can customise it the way you want it!
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tgsbfadc
Newbie
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4. November 2006 @ 03:29 |
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Thanks Creaky for the suggestion.
I think that I'll go with the Hiper HPU-4S730 OmniGrid II Quad SLi 730W Modular ATX2.2 PSU.
I can get that for right on budget, it wil o 730w as standrd and has an upper limit of 780 w if pushed.
I also like the modular design, so I can leave things out if I don't need them.
I jsut realised that I forgot to allow for any hard drives, so I will need some budget for that.
As for buying a system from someone like HP, no thanks, thats not an option, I want something to allow me to keep parts when I change system and will perform better than the batch produced products companies such as HP roll out.
I have enough technical experience to work with all the parts, its just knowing which parts to buy and why that is what is required.
It looks as though the Intel 6600 CPU is the one to go for at my budget, but It would be useful to get some feedback on how it performs at stock and when overclocked.
Sammorris, thanks for your list and feedback.
As said, I will be using my DVD burner and rom from my present machine, I added those myself so there not that old and work perfectly well.
If you have any experience with getting these systems overclocked it would be great, as it sounds like that sort of system is perfect, but I wouldn't know where to start if trying to overclock to any degree, so would need some help from you guys if you don't mind.
I'd be okay using some of the onboard tools that come with the machines, but have heard that to really overclock them you need to do it manually.
I would like to hear if there are any issues known with that board if anyone is using it, as you can't beat hands on experience, and no one I know has that sort of PC, mainly laptops and ex-office machines etc etc....
Also if anyone has an alternative motherboard to look at and reasons to use it, that would be fantastic, as it would be nice to have alternatives to choose from just in case there are any issues.
I appreciate all the input you guys are giving me considering I'm new here, and don't have much to offer back at present.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. November 2006 @ 03:38 |
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XMS2 RAM, a P5WDH, a high output PSU like that hiper, a zalman cooler and some arctic silver and you can't fail to pull an extreme overclock. Systems wit those components are typically reaching 3.4-3.6Ghz...
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tgsbfadc
Newbie
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4. November 2006 @ 04:06 |
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Quote:
XMS2 RAM, a P5WDH, a high output PSU like that hiper, a zalman cooler and some arctic silver and you can't fail to pull an extreme overclock. Systems wit those components are typically reaching 3.4-3.6Ghz...
How would I go about it?
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Senior Member
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4. November 2006 @ 04:56 |
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ask in the overclocking thread for more on that.
you could save £50ish and get the abit ab9 mobo which at stock is the fastest mobo out, but it doesn't have some of the features on the p5w.
the samsung 250gb spinpoints are about £50 each so they wont break the bank.
also the jeantech phong2 case has some great cooling and sound reducing propperties but has a look you will love or hate, thats only £50 aswell, but like sam said you have to live with it not us.
edit
other news.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4812
g80s not as power hungry as first reported.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. November 2006 @ 05:45
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. November 2006 @ 09:14 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
Zalman CPU coolers aren't too loud,
I don't know about your 7700, but the 9500LED is LOUD compared to the Arctic Freezer Pro I replaced it with. It cools better in both my system and my mates P-4 (my old one) as well!
I've been doing some experimenting on the case air flow and discovered that if I use 2 80mm 27 CFM fans blowing in, 1 in the side window and 1 in the front of the case, along with the Thermaltake Thunderblade 120mm that's blowing 78 CFM out the back it all works very well. The remaining 24 CFM draws air in the right side vents in the cover and insures good airflow over the back side of the MB, so the whole thing cools dramaticly better. Even though I'm OC'd to 3.81 on a 3.2 Pressler, it idles in the low 30s and hits a max of 54 stressed! If you are wondering, I bought a 4 pack of Thermaltake 27 CFM 80mm fans for $15 and have been fooling around with them to see what shakes out. With a total of 54 CFM going in and 78 CFM blowing out, the negative pressure insures good airflow around the MB. Even if the CPU reaches 54C, the MB temp has never exceeded 35C in any of my testing since I added the front fan. Later today I'm going to add a front fan to the Prescott and see what that does. Even with the addition of the front fan on my D-940, it's still much quieter than the Prescott/9500 combo without the extra fan! The cases are identical except for color, so everything else is equal!
Next time Tiger has a sale on the Arctic Freezer 4 Pro, the Zalman in the Prescott is history!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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He_Man
Senior Member
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4. November 2006 @ 10:57 |
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right i see now.how do you guys memorise all the models and that?
do you like implant it in your long term memory by staring at it for a few hours?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. May 2007 @ 19:03
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. November 2006 @ 11:36 |
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He_Man,
Quote:
how do you guys memorise all the models and that?
It's really fairly easy as good stuff is easy to remember because folks here talk about good stuff all the time and have no problem telling you when something sucks. When I responded to tgsbfadc's post I kept it light and general, plus he's a newbie! The links I provided are good high quality parts that the results of others have proven to be excellent for the given job. I didn't want to overwhelm him with a whole bunch of links! I think it's much better if he just looks around and asks questions of all of us and then makes a decision as to what he wants to do.
If he came back and said he was considering an ECS MB, I wouldn't hesitate to advise him against one. My own personal experience with ECS has been generally bad and I've found the quality to be poor. If he said that he was thinking about an Asus A8N-SLI, I would give him the thumbs up! I've never owned one, but enough folks here have, and the results they report here and on other Forums tells me that it is a better than average MB. There's a lot more junk out there than there is good high quality parts so it's pretty easy to remember which is which!
I like the Arctic Freezer Pro CPU coolers. Why? Because they have proven themselves to be superior to the Zalman 9500LED in both of the Intel systems we have here. That might differ with someone elses findings. I've found that there are too many variables in components and case design to say that a certain cooling product is best. What works exceptionally well for me, may dissappoint someone else because of differences in those variables. I used the 9500 in my Prescott and had it OC'd from 3.0 to 3.94 and used it in an air conditioned room. It worked fine. My buddy that I sold it to doesn't have AC, and in that environment the 9500 works poorly and he is running stock 3.0! It's the same case and fans as mine, it's just the Freezer 4 works better in the Prescott at higher temps. Both are excellent coolers but the Arctics seem to work better for the both of us. They are also a heck of a lot quieter!
I run my Intel 3.2 D-940 at 3.81 and it is idling right now t 35C in a 25C room. Like I said, it works well for me!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. November 2006 @ 11:43
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. November 2006 @ 11:44 |
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Most of the good overclocks I've seen have been with the Asus P5WDH and the Gigabyte DS3 series, and of the two, I'd prefer the Asus based on its features. It's expensive, but good overclocking components are...
To be honest, Russ, the 7000 doesn't seem very quiet at all at 12V, it's not loud, but when my GPU fan is on loud and my PSU is cool, it's by far the loudest fan.
How quiet is your thunderblade Russ? I added one temporarily (with horrible colour changing lights I'm going to cut off) and it was very loud, but when i ran it up outside my case, it was silent, so I think it must vibrate a lot...
Hehe I can add to your support of A8N-SLi series boards Russ! grrr, I wanted a Freezer but couldn't get one!
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. November 2006 @ 12:35 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
How quiet is your thunderblade Russ?
It's extremely quiet! I was very skeptical of the reported 21db because of the high 78CFM, but was happy when my worries proved unfounded. I really think I'm on to something here with the fans as the difference in temps is like night and day. I think I've struck a good balance between forced air in combined with forced air out. Making the input roughly 2/3 of the output makes a huge difference and allows better air flow within the case because the Thunderblade is still pulling 78CFM. It's been on all day and the idle temp is 35C with a room temp of 25C. If I load it down with a burn-in at 100% CPU usage it just barely hits 54C. When I first turn on the computer the MB temp is always a couple of degrees above the ambient room temp! It "NEVER" gets higher than 35C unless the room temp gets above 27C (warm), even when the CPU gets to 54C. It's interesting that as soon as the load is removed from the CPU the temp drops like a brick. The MB takes a little longer to cool but it too gets down to 30-32C.
You are right about the 2 motherboards for the Conroe. I've seen pretty much the same results for both motherboards, 3.4 to 3.6 on air. I would go with the GigaByte strictly because of the ceramic capacitors. There's not a whole lot to choose from either way but the GigaByte is a whole lot cheaper. The capacitors wouldn't matter very much here because it's very dry, but in a damper environment it would eventually make a big difference. It's interesting that ceramic caps are nothing new and were used quite a bit in the 30s and 40s but eventually gave way to waxed paper/foil. Seems they had it right way back when! LOL!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Member
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4. November 2006 @ 21:23 |
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Originally posted by He_Man:
right i see now.how do you guys memorise all the models and that?
do you like implant it in your long term memory by staring at it for a few hours?
I usually beam my thoughts to the mothership as I am from uranius. Which keeps my active memory free. On apon needing memory unlogging I log on to the download logging whicj refils my active memory with recent uploaded thought or data.lol
This a parody and is not approved by any canadate running for office. Please take this in joking manner it was intented for.
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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Member
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4. November 2006 @ 21:29 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Most of the good overclocks I've seen have been with the Asus P5WDH and the Gigabyte DS3 series, and of the two, I'd prefer the Asus based on its features. It's expensive, but good overclocking components are...
To be honest, Russ, the 7000 doesn't seem very quiet at all at 12V, it's not loud, but when my GPU fan is on loud and my PSU is cool, it's by far the loudest fan.
How quiet is your thunderblade Russ? I added one temporarily (with horrible colour changing lights I'm going to cut off) and it was very loud, but when i ran it up outside my case, it was silent, so I think it must vibrate a lot...
Hehe I can add to your support of A8N-SLi series boards Russ! grrr, I wanted a Freezer but couldn't get one!
Sam, you think the new boards are expensive, try to buy one of the premium 478 mobos of yesteryear. My abit ic7g which I bought for 130 us, can be found for(new)245.00 us! rediculious! ebay is not much better
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. November 2006 @ 22:53 |
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Baltekmi,
Quote:
I usually beam my thoughts to the mothership as I am from uranius.
Look straight up above the quote on the left side of your post!! Gotcha!LMAO!!! and don't forget to duck!!!
Beam me up Scotty!!!LOL!!!
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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5. November 2006 @ 10:03 |
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For those here interested in same facts on the Intel Quad cores, heres a very good link to some tests made with the latest releases.
I'm not trying to justify quad cores to anyone BTW, merely passing on what seems to be a very good set of test results, which show just how far Intel have pushed performance.
They are lined up against Core 2 and AMD CPUs for a comparison.
As an avid video editor, having the extra power would help me, but not everyone I know.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7129&page=1
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. November 2006 @ 10:05 |
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No doubt they have their uses, but for a lot of people I doubt they can justify the extra expense. I'd love to see how good the performance of 4x4 will be though!
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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5. November 2006 @ 10:46 |
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Hopefully someone can post a link to the results as soon as they are available, it will be interesting to see how they compare.
I can't find anything other than details on the AMD's new CPU architecture, which isn't exactly riveting reading.
As for prices, then eventually everything comes down in price, so patience will be rewarded for those that don't have endless pockets, at least the products are arriving, so we'll all end with with them in the end.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. November 2006 @ 10:48
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Senior Member
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5. November 2006 @ 13:59 |
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Originally posted by BigDK:
...we'll all end with with them in the end.
we all live in hope :)
the things that stand out the most for me are, how well the pent d does when you factor in that it is old tech(and its price) and that amds are more competative with games.
it comes down to what you use your pc for most. me im screwed as i am either playing on fear/bf 2142/quake4/n.f.s.c. or encoding a dvd.
i have to say that i too cant wait to see what amd have up thier sleave with the 4x4. i think then we will all be in a better place to plan our upgrade path/next component purchase.
oh yea, thanks for the link that a good read.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. November 2006 @ 14:00
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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5. November 2006 @ 23:20 |
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As for where AMD is heading, this is very interesting.
As the article says, it's unlikely to totally replace individual devices, but having the CPU/GPU processing combined on one device will certainly give a major boost in some areas of performance, and will hopefully go some way to halting the upward trend of PSU wattage requirements.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7094
I'm also waiting to see how the AMD/ATI merger affects the NVIDIA/AMD relationship, and if at last that brings official support for SLi from Intel platforms.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. November 2006 @ 02:32 |
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I have a feeling that's going to give us better, cheaper, more powerful integrated graphics, but that any high end system is going to still require cards, at least for the next few years.
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