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Intel vs. AMD
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Senior Member
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2. April 2007 @ 14:09 |
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I was gonna post in the cooling thread, but this seemed specific to AMD product.
Can anyone explain, or help me troubleshoot my temperature problem?
In the exact same rig (Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe, Zalman 9500, EVGA 7600GT)
I was using an Opteron 175 (OC'd stable for a year @ 2.6 but put BIOS all back to default for the swap) at mid 40C to low 50C.
I drop in an Opteron 185, machine recognizes it, and my temperatures went up 15-20°C with the side panel open still! These are confirmed by BIOS, Asus probe, and core temp program.
I confirmed it was the chip by taking it out, putting the old one back in and retesting. Killed a PSU in the process but I am back up and still running hot. Any suggestions are appreciated.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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2. April 2007 @ 14:26 |
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[quote=BigDK]The Hiper twist rings can be a bit fiddly, and if your not careful they could get cross threaded, but I've never had any issues with either the build quality and how they mate and lock, or how they perform electrically or lastly how easily they come off if taking things apart.
If I was going to buy a cheap PSU I'd get one of the lower priced Antec or Thermaltakes before I'd get a Hiper and it doesn't have that much to do with those designer connectors. For what a person gets, the Hiper is overpriced on the US market. That's just my opinion. I won't be running out to buy one either. If a Hiper was the last PSU on the shelf at the local store, it would stay. I'd wait till I could get an order on a unit I preferred.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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2. April 2007 @ 14:43 |
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Of course if you want the best,you get one of these!!
http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T1KWSR
2. DON'T BE MISLED BY EXAGGERATED WATTAGE CLAIMS
To properly compare power supplies, wattage claims must state the maximum ambient temperature for continuous, full-load operation. Unfortunately for the consumer, this information is usually withheld, opening the door for manufacturers to exaggerate their wattage claims. They do so by assuming an unrealistic ambient temp of only 25°C (77°F), even though the actual internal power supply temp is at least 40°C (104°F). Since the proper full-load rating is 15°C higher for home use and 25°C higher for industrial use, these power supplies produce 33%-50% less power than their advertised ratings.
5. AN SLI CERTIFIED POWER SUPPLY WILL ALWAYS POWER HIGH-END GRAPHICS CARDS?
We went through three power supplies before we found one that consistently worked with these high-end graphics cards and an FX-60. We initially started with a Silverstone 600W SLI certified power supply, but running some games resulted in the system powering down under full load. We next moved onto a higher rated Thermaltake PurePower SLI certified 680W unit. But while most games ran most of the time, the system would still occasionally shut down. Finally, we ended up using PC Power and Cooling's massive TurboCool 850 SSI. This just goes to show that if you really want to build something that pushes the bleeding edge, make sure you have the right power supply.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1925905,00.asp
6. SHOULD AN ATX POWER SUPPLY BE COOLED WITH A 120MM FAN?
Most low-noise ATX power supplies today utilize a top-mounted 120mm fan rather than a rear-mounted 80mm fan. The 120?s favorable reputation is based on the fact that under low to medium load conditions, the 120mm fan provides sufficient cooling at low RPM and low RPM fans are generally very quiet.
However, problems occur with this design when the load exceeds 50%-60%. Because the 120mm fan consumes about 1.5? of vertical space inside the PSU, heat sinks, capacitors, and other components are about 30% smaller in height compared to a PSU with a rear-mounted fan. The smaller parts can handle less current, so the maximum power available with the 120mm design is limited. And, because the heat sinks have less surface area, more air flow is needed with this design to keep the thermal situation under control. With 80%-100% load, the 120?s fan speed can double and the noise level can jump by up to 20dB.
In conclusion, for systems that require more than 50% of the power supply?s capacity, a well-engineered PSU with a rear-mounted 80mm fan will provide superior performance and reliability (due to larger components) at a noise level comparable to a PSU equipped with a 120mm fan.
7. ARE TWO POWER SUPPLY FANS BETTER THAN ONE?
No. A power supply with two fans doesn?t exhaust any more air from the case than a power supply with one. That's because due to space limitations, only one fan can be used for exhaust, while the other is limited to spot cooling. Possible explanations for a 2-fan PSU include: thermal engineering problems; an attempt to exaggerate the wattage rating by spot cooling the transformer; or an attempt by the marketing department to create a new gimmick.
This is interesting!!
http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/#8
Here's some of their other psu's
http://www.pcpower.com/home/
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. April 2007 @ 14:55 |
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Hmm, the 580W hipers shut down at 630W... As for Enermax, I'm sure the PSUs are good, but best? I don't know...
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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2. April 2007 @ 15:15 |
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PacMan,
ok already, we understand you do not like the hiper type r. I have and use one and have no complaints. I do prefer modular psu's regardless of the make. I like things neat and tidy, without a bunch of unused cables that you have to tie up or tuck away.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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REAM
Suspended permanently
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2. April 2007 @ 17:15 |
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Originally posted by Deadrum33:
I was gonna post in the cooling thread, but this seemed specific to AMD product.
Can anyone explain, or help me troubleshoot my temperature problem?
In the exact same rig (Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe, Zalman 9500, EVGA 7600GT)
I was using an Opteron 175 (OC'd stable for a year @ 2.6 but put BIOS all back to default for the swap) at mid 40C to low 50C.
I drop in an Opteron 185, machine recognizes it, and my temperatures went up 15-20°C with the side panel open still! These are confirmed by BIOS, Asus probe, and core temp program.
I confirmed it was the chip by taking it out, putting the old one back in and retesting. Killed a PSU in the process but I am back up and still running hot. Any suggestions are appreciated.
when installing the new one with the HS(F) did you use any thermal paste?
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Senior Member
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2. April 2007 @ 18:26 |
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@REAM---thanks for the reply, and yes i used small drop of Arctic Silver 5.
I dont know how there could be such a jump in these chips, especially in the exact same setup as before.
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Senior Member
1 product review
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2. April 2007 @ 20:49 |
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Quote:
I will look around and see if I still have any of the old standard 4x video cards left around. I know I had a Matrox and an Asus at one time that did pretty good with games.
The graphics card aint a problem it is running an AGP version of the 256mb ATi Radeon 9600PRO so im alright there.
I thought it ouwldnt overclock Intel Mainboards never let you as far as ive seen if they do its a much harder way then normal ones.
What about the memory timmings is there anything you can adjust to increase their speed.
it has I just opened and chcked 2x 256mb PC133 50ns Winbond ram.
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docTY
Member
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2. April 2007 @ 21:42 |
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@deadrum33
there is definitely something wrong here with your setup, to simply swap out just the cpu (both opterons in your case) does not warrant a significant jump in temps.
when you put your opty175 back in "for testing", did the temps return back to normal as they previously were? or were the temps significantly higher than before you had swapped out cpus?
did you notice anything peculiar with your other temps? or only the cpu temp went up, everything else remained the same?
i assume everything in terms of voltages were back to "default" too? namely your vcore...
we can go into more detail as i'm very familiar with that mobo (i'm using it right now actually in my AMD rig.) so feel free to PM me~
assuming you properly remounted the Zalman with sufficient/not too much AS-5, the temps could vary by about 3-5C upon initial application before the compound cures, but no way 10-15C :) i went from an x2 4400+ to an opty 185 and my cpu temps went down actually after simple swap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
since the conversation has switched over to powersupplies, i'll withold my "detailed comparisons/comments" for now...with the exception of the Hiper and Corsair units, i've used all the other powersupplies mentioned by everyone here from the Enermax Liberty to the Galaxy and even had the PC Power & Cooling offerings at one point. :) for high end power hungry systems (ie. 8800's in SLI and the soon to be R600), i would highly recommend the Cooler Master 850 Real Power Pro (or it's new big brother the 1000w unit)...i've had problems with one of my Enermax Galaxys and that went back in an RMA for a newer revision, no problems since; the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool kilowatt i sold to recoop some money as $500 for a powersupply is even too excessive for me, but it was a terrific unit as almost ALL PC P&C are :) the Thermaltake Toughpower 750w i used along with an OCZ GamexStream 700w are on the same level for reliability and output to the rails, but not enough for me and 8800gtx SLI. i'm not one for noise levels as i don't really care, as long as it does the job properly and is stable.
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aabbccdd
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2. April 2007 @ 22:11 |
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Thermaltake Toughpower 750w is definitely a good one . its the one i have. the kilowatt PS will be my next one if a when i decide to do a new build hummm maybe Quadcore lol
and Doc my Opteron 185 is running cooler also about 36C and thats OC(ed) to 2.87GHz
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2007 @ 22:13
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docTY
Member
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2. April 2007 @ 22:26 |
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@aabbccdd
good to see ya around :) it's been getting much warmer here in Cali as of late, so my system temps have all been about 3-5C warmer.
idle opty 185 @3.1ghz for me has been around 39C, during the colder evenings, it drops to about 34C-37C (much like yours is normally) :) my chipset is much cooler now than it was before as i re-modded/cleaned everything up not too long ago...adding this Silverstone fan as the front intake in my Antec case has helped quite a bit (it's silent at low setting but sounds like a helicopter taking off on full speed LOL).
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aabbccdd
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2. April 2007 @ 22:54 |
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Doc did you get the Antec nine hunderd , thats i i got very nice case plus it runs soooo much cooler than the Lian Li i had lol
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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2. April 2007 @ 23:30 |
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Quote:
For what a person gets, the Hiper is overpriced on the US market. That's just my opinion.
Thats definately the opinion of someone in the US, Hiper are a British company, so for once us British get a better deal on a product.
Pretty much a reversal of the situation we usually have to put up with.
So when you've got a locally sourced product with the support and service that goes with it, and the reduced pricing it enables, it makes a difference.
Obviouly they can cross you off their mailing list though.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2007 @ 23:30
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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2. April 2007 @ 23:47 |
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Originally posted by Mort81:
PacMan,
ok already, we understand you do not like the hiper type r. I have and use one and have no complaints. I do prefer modular psu's regardless of the make. I like things neat and tidy, without a bunch of unused cables that you have to tie up or tuck away.
I really don't pay Hiper much mind. It's up to the individual what they purchase and use. Since it's a friendly little forum, I just stated my preferences, which don't include Hiper.
Crowy
That was the company promo for the product. I realize they're well rated. That single rail good, multiple rail bad theory leaves me scratching my head though. There's more to it than just accessing all the usable power on a single rail. But if people buy it ... ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 00:35
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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2. April 2007 @ 23:58 |
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Originally posted by BigDK:
Quote:
For what a person gets, the Hiper is overpriced on the US market. That's just my opinion.
Thats definately the opinion of someone in the US, Hiper are a British company, so for once us British get a better deal on a product.
Pretty much a reversal of the situation we usually have to put up with.
So when you've got a locally sourced product with the support and service that goes with it, and the reduced pricing it enables, it makes a difference.
Obviouly they can cross you off their mailing list though.
LOL I didn't mean to make it a matter of national pride. I don't think I'd care for Hiper if I was in Canada, Australia, Japan, or the UK. Your man Sam doesn't appear to be too keen on them either and he's on the home team. You make a good point, it appears to be overpriced on all but your local market. Are you using them for your personal builds?
Just to show I'm not anti-UK, I would love to own several of the British automobiles and as a youngster I wanted a Triumph motorcycle. You're right though, you can let Hiper know they no longer need to keep me on the mailing list. ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 00:07
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 00:55 |
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LOL I wasn't defending British 'not deliberately anyway'.
I'd actually be one of the last to do so.
I was trying to point out that being a British product with the benefits of locality it lent weight to the purchasing on one of them if living here as opposed to abroad.
I can see that for anyone abroad, it would be just another reason not to bother looking at that product.
If I look at my PC, I see Asus, Intel, Corsair, Galaxy, EK, Alphacool, Plextor, FSP, Coolermaster and Laing (Hardly a glowing indication of British computer engineering).
Yes one of my PCs has the Type-R inside it, and its a replacement for the original Type-R that died on me, but as I was able to speak directly to the manufacturer and arrange a swap out, it made the whole decision to buy one of these a good one.
You can tell a lot more about a company when they are required to act on a problem, than you can when its just marketing and shipping, and my experience with Hiper was 100% positive which is rare.
I've had far more encounters with manufacturers where they never answer a phone 'if you can find the number', never answer emails, and even through their chosen resellers give crap service.
Sadly both my cars are German, and my bike is Japanese, my experience with British cars is not positive, they aren't generally that well built and are very unreliable compared to foreign cars.
I think the only car industry that we can honestly say we now have the dominance in, is F1, but I don't see too many of those in the showrooms these days.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 00:56
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. April 2007 @ 01:42 |
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Pacman777,
Quote:
That single rail good, multiple rail bad theory leaves me scratching my head though. There's more to it than just accessing all the usable power on a single rail.
Have a closer read:
Quote:
For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.
So then your second rail is also 17 amps but if your graphics card is say, 22 amps, your power supply is gonna shutdown or worse.
If you have a single rail psu rated at 34 amps (17x2 on the dual rail system)and your cpu is drawing 7A that leaves you 27amps spare for the graphics card, more than enough power.
On a side note,I'm an Aussie that drives a Volvo!!!!!!!!
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 02:24
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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3. April 2007 @ 04:00 |
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BigDK
Since I saw a DB5 driven by Sean Connery I've always wanted an Aston Martin. I'd like to have one to put in the garage. If it ran, that would be a plus. Unless I win a lottery, I'm not likely to have one. The same goes for an XKE. That Jaguar is a piece of art. It doesn't have to run to look good. LOL
Crowy
I see you bought the PC Power sales pitch. They're a proven unit, but the single rail architecture is also shared by many of the crap PSUs. The pitch makes double and triple rail units sound like poor design. Many of us can easily challenge that by the success we've enjoyed with multiple rail PSUs. You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to spend the price to get the "superior" single rail technology of a PC Power PSU. I'll just stick with "questionable" double and triple rail models.
By the way, I like the GTO. Too bad one doesn't fit my current budget. ;)
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4 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 05:49 |
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One of my PCs uses the Nine Hundred, and it runs very cool indeed at low setting, but then it should with that many fans.
"not too keen on them" - that's not really what I meant, I like them, but as someone who's after a quiet PSU, I think Corsair have the best offering for me. The thermaltake and Hiper are near equal on that front.
Heh, let's see, Asus, Intel, Corsair, Thermaltake, NEC, Zalman, Seagate, WD, Samsung, ATi/Sapphire, NZXT, Arctic cooling, Hiper, Nexus, Noctua, AC Ryan, Akasa. Only my top case fan is british lol, and even then it's made in China.
On the car front, a lot of 'british' cars are made elsewhere, and a lot of foreign cars are made in britain, so it varies. I'd place Honda quite high up on the reliability front, and a lot of those are made in the UK...
Interesting point about having a volvo crowy, they are (or at least were, I lose track) owned by Ford, just like Aston Martin, Jaguar and Land Rover.
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 08:33 |
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This is what I consider to be the best looking Jag.
There's a guy up the road from me that has one of these stuck behind a glass screen, he looks at it whilst he works out in his private gym.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 08:50 |
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mm, an XJ220?
What you're saying is, there's someone who lives up the road from you who's rich.
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3. April 2007 @ 09:10 |
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Sam,
Quote:
What you're saying is, there's someone who lives up the road from you who's rich.
Shows you how money has changed. I've had 5 Jags over the years starting with a 65 XKE, a 67 XKE, an XJS and a Classic D and most recently another XJS. I also had a Daimler SP-250, which had a Coventry Climax Hemi V8 in it! Electrics were always the problem. In the US George Lucas was always know as the "Prince of Darkness"! LOL!!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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3. April 2007 @ 11:49 |
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Quote:
In the US George Lucas was always know as the "Prince of Darkness"! LOL!!
Whatever that has to do with the cost of cotton in Egypt ...
BigDK
The new Jags are beauties, but I like the looks of the older ones a little more.
This is what I'd like for a modern car when I win the lottery.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 11:51
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REAM
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3. April 2007 @ 12:27 |
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from amd vs intel to jags....what a thread
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 12:28 |
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Heh, it was power supplies for a few pages, and graphics cards before that. Truth is, we haven't had much new to discuss on the Intel vs AMD front.
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