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Intel vs. AMD
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 13:19 |
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Guys, at least keep it to the PC front lol. We don't wanna get shut down again :)
As for the Enermax Galaxy, very good PSU. But, as said earlier, it's pretty noisy and has been known to have problems in the past.
If you want silence, get the Enermax Noisetaker or the Whisper II. Very good PSUs(from 420W - 600W):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194001
If you want high power on a single card system get the Liberty(also in 500W & 400W):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194004
If you want the higher power equivalent to the Liberty get the Infiniti(also in 650W):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194021
If you want a high power PSU for dual video get the Galaxy(also in 850W):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194019
Enermax PSUs ARE NOT without their faults but I've seen them all receive high ratings from review sites and have had excellent personal experience.
I'm not being a fanboy any more than I'm trying to promote a top-end product.
IMO the PC Power & Cooling is the very best 1KW PSU and the Hiper 580W is definitely the very best high power PSU for those on a budget.
I've also had an excellent experience with the 430W Thermaltake TR2. It's perfect for a classic GeForce 6800 256MB Vanilla
or X800GTO build. Very high quality. Shut down for me at 450W.
@sammorris, I have had friends with better luck with the Liberty 500W. Shutdown at 535W.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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3. April 2007 @ 13:27 |
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Sorry! Off Topic. Sent a PM instead.
Sorry,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 13:38
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 13:56 |
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According to SPCR:
Enermax Noisetaker
21dB@ 0-150W
24dB@ 200W
32dB@ 250W
35dB@ 300W
44dB@ 400W+
Corsair HX
22dB@ 0-300W
29dB@ 400W
43dB@ 500W+
For silence i'd still go with the Corsair!
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 14:15 |
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Hmm, point taken.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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PacMan777
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3. April 2007 @ 14:58 |
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Estuansis
I realize I was OT, but I got there with my sweet little AMD. Like a Jag, it has character. LOL
Theonejrs
I only asked because I didn't understand the Lucas reference in connection to wiring.
Wiring, that get's us back to PSUs which is still a bit OT for this thread, but we gotta have them. ;) What's with AMD? Have they released anything new, did they sneak something in while I wasn't looking. ;)
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4 product reviews
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3. April 2007 @ 15:31 |
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They've been very slowly making the move to 65nm, just as Intel are beginning to move to 45nm. Funny how the Core 2 Duos have the same TDP as the 65nm X2s, especially when the C2Ds are older, and faster!
I'm hoping K8L will kick some ass, because whether or not that sees AMD on top, it sees a technological advance, which is going to be countered by Intel. Whichever CPU comes out top from that one, I will probably get. Despite the issues I've had, overclocking a CPU by 66% has made a fantastic PC come cheap, but I want those latter two words removed. I'll go with a higher spec CPU to start with, and then let's see what happens!
Last point on the PSU noise front, most of us accept a bit of noise when our PCs draw a lot of power, such as gaming, so I compared all the recent units SPCR has tested and found some interesting results.
If you care about noise at all, the Enermax Galaxy and Tagan Easycon should be avoided. This surprises me since Tagan have a reputation for building quiet units. However, the PSU ramps up to a comparatively ear-shattering 45dB (many delta fans are tested to be this loud) at a mere 300W, and reaches 40dB at only 200W, a pretty low load for a 700W unit. The Enermax is acceptable at 300W, but above and beyond that level, it reaches 50dB. Both the Tagan and Enermax idle at 29dB, the same noise level Corsair units produce at 400W.
Doing a bit of number crunching with the decibels, I came up with this for quietness, because I had very little better to do! :P
1st. Corsair HX (Either model) 23.4
2nd. BeQuiet! Darkpower 430W 29.1
3rd. Zalman ZM-600W 30.2
4th. Antec Earthwatts 430W 31.0
5th. Enermax Noisetaker 31.2
6th. Antec Truepower Trio 550W 33.1
7th. Ultra X-Pro 620W 33.7
8th. Lian Li HPC 600W 34.0
9th. Enermax Galaxy 1000W 35.7
10th Tagan Easycon XL-700W 40.4
(the numbers are a mean of the noise output at various loads up to and including 400W)
it's worth noting that the Lian Li is the quietest at full load (36dB) but the Lian Li, Enermax and Tagan are the only units to exceed 70ºC at full load. That's quite hot. Not sure I'd want a PSU running at those temperatures on a regular basis. By contrast, the Corsairs don't even break 60ºC at max, although they do eventually ramp up to 43dB at 500W, but if you used that much, you'd probably have a higher rated PSU anyway.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 16:01
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Senior Member
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3. April 2007 @ 15:57 |
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thats the whole reason i went with my setup. it was a cheap way to get a c2d setup. i paid more than i needed to on my ram beacuse i intend to use that again when i upgrade to a 1066/1333 cpu in the future.
i think that i would be hard pushed (not be able) to get an amd setup that would come close in performance for the price i paid for this.
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3. April 2007 @ 15:58 |
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Likewise. At stock, maybe, but not considering how much you can overclock a Core 2 Duo. I'll probably be keeping my RAM too.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. April 2007 @ 16:11 |
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Here's a few more interesting facts while we wait for AMD to give us something to talk about!!
This is taken from a review of the SilverStone Decathlon SST-DA750 750W PSU:
In the past manufacturers tried to make us believe that more +12V rails are better but now we're seeing more and more high-end units using the single-rail approach. One of the reasons for this is because some components like high-end graphics cards use an enormous amount of power, especially in SLI, Quad SLI or CrossFire setups. If multi-rail power supplies follow the official ATX PSU specifications, each rail may only provide a max of 20A (or 240W). For most hardware that's not really a problem but considering the upcoming R600 will use up to 540W in CrossFire you can see that multi-rail PSUs will get into trouble. 75W per card comes through the PCI Express slot which is on a different rail so an additional 195W per card is needed from the PCI Express power connectors. With two cards you need a voltage rail which can deliver 32.5A and that's not something you'll find on multi-rail PSUs.
Nowadays it's definitely recommended to get a PSU with a single +12V rail if you're building a high-end PC. I'm not saying that multi-rails are bad, but if you need a lot of power a PSU with a single rail may be better.
Single rail PSU solves RD480 Crossfire problems
Xtremesystems, Sampsa, ATI and support guys confirms it
By Fuad Abazovic: Monday 27 February 2006, 21:32
WE have a solution for problems that we have had with A8R-MVP motherboard and two graphic cards. You can check the original post here. We spoke with many people today and they all indicate that it has to be the power problem.
ATI key motherboard designer John Bruno told us that a single rail PSU is better than a multi rail PSU. He reported that ATI had some issues with multi rail PSUs while all of the single rail 500 W + PSUs were running fine. It turns out that both OCZ Power stream 600 W PSU and Akasa 650W PSU are using more than one power rails.
One of the readers an administrator of a motherboard company forum recommended ENERMAX EG651P-VE FM(24P) PSU with 36A and a single12 V rail. Our colleagues at Bit tech managed to test dozen X1900 cards including Crossfire with a single rail 520W OCZ PSU. You can check the article here.
We got a nice link where one of the top overclocker, our good friend Sampsa had the same problem with 600W multi rail PSU and A8R-MVP board and two X1900 cards in Crossfire. He solved its troubles by switching to a single rail 560W PSU. You can check the post here.
This specific problem reminded us on the same problem that we had with two Geforce 7800 GTX 512 cards. Those two cards in SLI were crushing the machine while two 7800 GTX 256 MB cards worked flawlessly. You can check it out here and we have been working for two weeks with Nvidia to solve the problem but failed to make it work. Someone simply could suggest that we should try single rail PSU 500+ W and everything should work. SLI works with two 7800 GTX 512 after all.
Hurray, now we know that Nvidia and ATI should warm people that they need single rail PSU not just any 600 W PSU. That really makes the difference. We are speechless why no one warned the users about this issue.
Despite we have two 600+ W PSU we are back at the spot where we need to get a new PSU for the lab to test those power hungry rigs. Asus A8R-32 MVP Deluxe board powered with RD580 chipset can even work with multi rail OCZ 600 W or Akasa 650W PSU as we guess it is distributing the power better than the previous one. A mystery solved, but beware if you are buying top motherboard SLI or Crossfire and you want to plug two power greedy cards inside. You need a lot of quality single rail power, not just any power.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=29940
Every day, I read either here at [H] or other PC forums about a weak multi-rail PSU causing failure of one (or more) expensive pieces of PC hardware (often graphics cards or even whole motherboards); usually because one rail is overstressed. Because of that sort of nastiness, I determined that *despite* preparations to build an SLI rig (my first such), there was exactly zero chance that I would purchase a multirail PSU for it. However, there are few single-rail SLI-certified PSUs available at *any* price, let alone those that the typical PC do-it-yourselfer can afford. In fact, I walked into the closest MicroCenter (Fairfax, VA: Nutley Street @ Lee Hwy.) hoping I might actually have better luck than online, only to find my luck equally bad: two of the three single-rail SLI-certified PSUs they normally carry they were out of stock on, and the third is the PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool 1kW-SR ($550USD; in a word, *OUCH*). However, given the lack of other alternatives, I will wind up going *maximum overkill* and buying the big 1kW-SR.
The out-of-stock preferences? The Silverstone ST-56ZF and PC P&C's Silencer 750 Quad (my first choice); in fact, the pair *combined* cost less than the 1kW-SR.
I also mentioned in the title of this post that I *loathe* multirail PSUs; now I'm about to explain why. The problem with multi-rail PSUs (all of them; no particular model of multi-rail PSU escapes this problem) is that all too often you can't tell what molex or other plug is being fed from what rail of a multi-rail PSU. While modular PSUs obviate this to a degree, even they are vulnerable because of rail cross-wiring (and you also have losses simply due to modular connectors in the first place); worse, the big current-drawing devices (graphics cards, especially in SLI) will wind up almost completely taxing at least one rail in a multi-rail PSU (resulting in uneven PSU load, because one rail is overtaxed, which will almost certainly lead to PSU failure early). However, most newer PSUs are, unfortunately, sporting multiple rails. (Ugh!)
Given the size of the *rest* of my investment in the system (over two thousand of my hard-earned American dollars), I am taking the *better safe than sorry* approach, and making sure that I could use the system reliably for as long as the components are viable. That means a high-current single-rail PSU
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1171827
So for a high end system,single rail is the way to go.
Some good info on power supplies here too.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/t136602.html
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 17:05
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. April 2007 @ 17:52 |
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sam,
there is an excellent rundown of your psu here if your interested:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/369/1
In fact your psu is actually a rebadged PSH750V-C01!
http://www.cwt.com.tw/english/2_product/1_detail.php?ID=867
I remember you posted somewhere either here or one of the other threads that you get wary when a manufacturer rebadges someone elses products with their own.Thought you might be interested.It just shows what it says on the case isn't neccesarily whats in the box.
Another interesting thing is your psu gives the impression it has 4 12v rails when actually it has 1 single 12v rail with four 12v outputs coming from the one rail.
Thats probably a good thing if you decide to go sli or get a more power hungry card in the future.
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 17:57
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Senior Member
1 product review
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3. April 2007 @ 22:30 |
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If I put a Radeon 9600XT 256mb AGP8x into a good PC how much slower would it be then a 256mb 6600GT or Ultra in terms of games alot or just a bit?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2007 @ 02:25 |
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I do get wary when a manufacturer badges someone else's products as their own, but my SPCR trawling showed me several cases where that was the case with PSUs, it seems to happen pretty often. However, I get more wary when a manufacturer trades the same products under two diferent names. I'm happy to accept that my PSU is a Channel Well, (if that was even the first) since they designed some of the Antec PSUs that got such a high rating, and the fact that my other choice, the OCZ GameXstream, is the same as the FSP Sparkle unit.
What really interests me about that article is the curious thing they did with the fan, half of it is covered with a clear plastic sheet. Why would you do that? Covering half a fan up is a sure way of increasing noise and decreasing airflow...
I'm kind of mixed about the virtual rails, it's a good thing because there'll be no problem with allocating lots of power to any one rail, but then again, it's a bit of a sneaky tactic anyway.
With the graphics cards, I found these benches:
UT2004, 1280x1024 4x8: 9600XT: 32.1, 6600GT: 69.5
Half Life 2, 1280x1024 0x0: 9600XT: 37.1 6600GT: 61.1
Doom 3, 1280x1024 0x0: 9600XT: 18.8, 6600GT: 57.4
Chronicles of Riddick EFBB, 1280x1024 0x0: 9600XT: 14.8, 6600GT: 32.3
Pacific Fighers, 1280x1024 0x0: 9600XT: 49.4, 6600GT: 79.5
The Sims 2, 1024x768 Max: 9600XT: 18.6, 6600GT: 56.2 (CPU limited)
It looks like the 6600GT is around double the power of the 9600XT, and up to three times in more demanding games like Doom 3 and, of all things, the Sims 2, where the 6600GT could have scored even higher had the test been run with a faster CPU than an Athlon64 4000+. The result would be academic due to the other hardware, but it proves how much of a stride nVidia made in this generation. The 9600 was definitely better than the FX5600, and yet the 6600 was way beyond the power of the X600, and in some cases even the X700.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2007 @ 02:36
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. April 2007 @ 02:35 |
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sam,
Quote:
half of it is covered with a clear plastic sheet. Why would you do that?
Maybe you could email them and ask the question?
The only thing I can think of is it directs the airflow to critical components??I'm only guessing.
That psu has got some kickarse reviews btw.
I wonder how many other psu's are made by third parties?
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2007 @ 02:39 |
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It has yes, and I know it can be a lot quieter than it is now, because when I ran it in my X2 system (which let's face it should use a similar amount of power or potentially more, with the same graphics card), it remained at its idle noise level even when I had been playing games for hours. I just need to get my heatsink facing the other direction.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. April 2007 @ 02:44 |
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sam'
Quote:
I just need to get my heatsink facing the other direction
What's stopping you doing that?
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2007 @ 02:45
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2007 @ 02:51 |
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It doesn't fit, not unless I start cutting the fan surround up, anyway, and I'm just a wee bit nervous of doing that. :P I was going to consider getting the Notua NH-U12F heatsink or Scythe Ninja to use a quiet 120mm fan for my CPU, but then that is a monumental amount of weight, and if my Freezer 7 Pro managed to fall off my CPU, do I trust anything heavier? Of course, there's also no guarantee that they'll fit the right way round either, due to the vast chipset heatsink on the P5N-E. Can't help but wonder if it's worth replacing that with something a little smaller, and leaving the CPU heatsink alone, since the Arctic is very quiet at minimum (PWM) speed, and I don't have any heat issues at that level.
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4. April 2007 @ 03:25 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
What really interests me about that article is the curious thing they did with the fan, half of it is covered with a clear plastic sheet. Why would you do that? Covering half a fan up is a sure way of increasing noise and decreasing airflow...
I have a feeling that something may get a little hot at that point and might eventually melt or at least warp the fan blade. I noticed that it appears to be Lexan Plastic, not the cheap kind. Lexan handles heat very well but is much more expensive than just regular clear plastic. The give away is how clear and distortion free the plastic used is. in fact all the Dentist's lights these days have thier lenses shielded by Lexan as they get very hot. If the Halogen bulb bursts because of a stray drop of water from the mouth or air/water syringe getting past the gap of the lens cover the broken glass will melt the lenscover but it won't melt through and fall on the patient or into the patients mouth. I can't see any other reason to use that type of material other than to shield something from heat. Just a guess, mind you but it makes sense to me!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2007 @ 03:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2007 @ 03:28 |
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That's fair enough I suppose, but it's the first I've seen of it, and I wonder why other PSUs don't seem to use it.
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4. April 2007 @ 03:42 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
That's fair enough I suppose, but it's the first I've seen of it, and I wonder why other PSUs don't seem to use it.
Maybe this one had problems with a hot spot from the begining. Lexan is designed to handle very high temperatures without distortion or yellowing. The Pelton & Crane Company was the first to use Lexan shields maybe 30 years ago or more. Thier light uses a 150 Watt Halogen bulb, so it gets quite hot. In fact the lens coatings are designed to draw heat away from the bulb and radiate that heat through one of the coatings on the back of the glass lens. Did you ever notice the little glass tit on a halogen bulb like in one of those torche lights. That's the heat exhause that draws the heat away from the bulbs filament, and even if it's aimed right at the lens cover, it usually won't melt it. I've seen it yellow and bubble it a bit but it won't melt from the heat. Believe me, if I didn't know about the covers on the dental lights and recognized the material as some form of Lexan, I would be as much in the dark about it as you are.
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
1 product review
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4. April 2007 @ 04:21 |
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Is the X800GTO alot better then the 9600Xt?
And how is it comparing to a 6600?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2007 @ 04:40 |
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Didn't know there was an X800GTO for AGP, but yes the X800GTO is just a litrle bit slower than the 6800GT and easily bests the 6600 and 9600.
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Senior Member
1 product review
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4. April 2007 @ 05:17 |
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Yeah I know its PCI-E (The X800GTO) just cant remember if teh shop had it or a X850 is the X850 better or about the same? its PCI-E
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2007 @ 05:37 |
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An X850XT is significantly better than an X800GTO. The model range of the X800s went (from worst to best)
X800GT
X800GTO / X800 Pro
X800XL
X800XT
X800XT Platinum
And the X850XT beats all of them.
The X850XT is about 60% faster than the X800GTO.
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Senior Member
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4. April 2007 @ 06:55 |
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the 850xt spanks more modern cards like the 7600gt and 1650xt too.
sam as luck my have it, i have just taken a pic of my fan mounting and when i have got it out my phone and hosted it i will post a link to it to show how small the notch needs to be.
i say as luck my have it but im not sure wether its good or not, my pc crashed last night for no apparent reason and then refused to load xp. every time it got to the blue bar it would pause. any way i tried everything it would let me (safe modes) with out any success so i pulled the cmos bat out and left it over night and it is now working. i took the pic as i had it open and did some other small bits while it was open. i gave i quick clean and modded my 60mm fan on the nb, more ghetto engineering, this time i cut off a corner of the fan housing so i could get the fan more central on the heatsink. its not made any change to the idle temps but it must be better than it was as it was only blowwing over about 3 quarters of it before now the fan blades are centeral on the heatsink.
what has me scratching my head is why clearing the bios has made it boot, or if it was conected to my oc why it didnt boot last night when i set it to stock clocks(its back on stock clocks again for now).
psu topic
anyone read the last 2 issues of custompc? last month was an in depth test of many psu's this month editorial was all about companys reactions to bad reviews (legal action/withdrawing all adds) and how some would like the fact as it made then look to improve there products. amongst the later were antec, enermax, seasonic and tagen, not sure who was the former tho.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2007 @ 07:00 |
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Can't say I did, I'd be interested to hear who the former were though!
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