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Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 07:01 |
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Surely most of those are spam?
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6. August 2007 @ 07:05 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Surely most of those are spam?
I just saw I have 1670 messages actually, the other numers I mentioned were unread ones :S . *help... me...*
But ahm, not much spam no, a lot of subscriptions and also just saved personal messages.
And communications with whatever, stores, other things.
Even though I have certain typical spam-things like, rolex replicas, get laid tonight, your new 2007 car, your free tickets, free trip to Oprah (LMAO).
I've put most into "unwanted", but sometimes they get less, and sometimes they get more.
Now they seem to be less again, just like 1-2-3 a week :P .
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 07:12 |
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Archived I must have tens of thousands of messages, but inbox, only a couple.
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6. August 2007 @ 07:14 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Archived I must have tens of thousands of messages, but inbox, only a couple.
Hey, how do you mean archived?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 08:14 |
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Google Mail allows you to archive (store) up to 2GB of emails for reference if you ever want to look at them later. You only need keep in your inbox what you'll look at soon, and since the mail search is a googlesearch, it's quick and easy to find what you're looking for.
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MaccerM
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6. August 2007 @ 09:38 |
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Me and my Mistakes!
I recently bought one of these GeCube X1950XT cards and I just thought I'd share my experience to hopefully help some peeps make a more informed decision.
My previous rig was a venerable old 478 P4 3.2 with 2gb of DDR400 and a XFX 7800GS. It would play FEAR quite sweet in 1024x768 maxed and 3DMark06 gave me 3308 with the cpu @ 3.44 and the GPU at 490 vs 440 stock. Not bad for barebones that were 3 years old, but BF2 framerates at 1280x1024 were around 25 on big maps and the stutters meant I was getting creamed every time 10 plus people were on my screen. CM Dirt was even worse, 13-18 fps @ 800x600 on medium.
Anyway I saw the X1950XT and thought this is the upgrade to make it last just a little longer....
Got the card and my first subsequent purchase was a new PSU. Gecube recommend 450w+ but even a mid range 500w is not enough, you need a decent 700w+
New PSU installed and 3DMark06 is up to 4022, great! 20% increase in the bag, it was worth it! No.
Real game performance was pretty much the same, FEAR would run 1280x1024 but BF2 was the same and infact Dirt was slightly worse!
Having bought the card second hand I had no real way to return it without it costing me so I embarked on my most ludicrous upgrade path ever (as you can see from my sig).
Now with a Core2 my 3DMark is up to 5700, BF2 runs maxed at 60-90fps and I get the 30 odd fps I needed in Dirt - However playing both these games is a 'side panel off' affair as I too have overheating problems with this card even after the tape mod. The engineers at GeCube definitely had thumbs up bums when putting this cooler on!
The Moral of my Story:
If you want the fastest AGP card, this is it. However if you actually want it to run like the fastest you'll need a top end Athlon 64 or a Core2 (the latter is pretty pointless - buying a new motherboard with AGP!? just get a PCIE card!)
If you buy this you will also need to be prepared to buy and fit an aftermarket cooler (think I'll go for the Thermaltake HR-03 and an extra pack of ramsinks for the VRMs and the bridge chip) You'll also have to spend on case airflow and probably a new PSU.
It is a great card but a great deal of effort to get it going and if you have an old P4 or a lower end Athlon I'd suggest a Nvidia 7950, much less painful!
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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Senior Member
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6. August 2007 @ 10:05 |
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to bad I've got a socket 478 mobo, so no C2D for me... :(
Well, is it the processor then? I dont think my usage goes to 100% when I play BF2 though..
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 11:21 |
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You obviously had a bad power supply, you can run an X1950XT on a 350W unit if it's good enough.
A 500W PSU can run a Quad core and an 8800GTX, a 600W PSU can run an overclocked quad core and two 8800GTXs in SLI. You just have to get one that's made properly, and actually puts out how many watts it says it does.
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Senior Member
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6. August 2007 @ 12:02 |
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Ran 3dmark06 again and got 3871... Is that underperforming for my system?
SM2 Score: 1631
HDR/SM3 Score 1881
CPU Score: 927
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 12:04 |
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Well, with that graphics card I would expect about 5000, but then my CPU score is 2500, so I suppose that's not too bad.
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Senior Member
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6. August 2007 @ 15:29 |
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jesus man, you have a kickass rig! how much did it cost?
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6. August 2007 @ 21:27 |
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I have that Zalman, one of the newest, that must be good enough at 500watts.
And it also must be the most "high-end" up-to-date part I have.
Except for the GPU having pretty high specs for an AGP.
The rest was also pretty high end, but not today, so I guess all parts just don't match.
I also think the XFX I saw will match the rest of the system better.
Cause the Motherboard and the CPU are like, hey I know you, you're from my era.
And they might also be like that to the GPU, but still call him a newbie because he's from 2006.
"You better work newbie, us veterans don't want to do all the work!"
And the PSU: "I'll handle it!" *PUMP*
And the MOBO and the CPU: "SHUT UP N00B!"
And the RAM: "Hey, shut up, we're trying to work here!"
And the CPU: "Who are you talking to n00b, I'll Hyper Thread your ass!"
And the MOBO: "HEY HEY, leave my chipset out of it!"
And the HDDs/ODDs: * :\ * ...
And the GPU: "I'm outta here..."
Result: GPU won't like to work here.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2007 @ 21:28
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6. August 2007 @ 21:39 |
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But ahm MaccerM, I guess a 7950 GT would pull off Battlefield at least right?
It's even got doubled numbers mostly:
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=382&card2=511
And games like DiRT, I would guess decent frames.
I mean, ok-looking settings at Medium (1024x768), and getting hm... 20-30-40 fps?
Usually it's good if it doesn't drop below 30 fps, because then it still looks and feel like it's smooth.
I would always be glad if it stayed around 30 in Battlefield (2 and 2142).
You know, something else about framerates:
When you get framerates from 40-50-60 plus, all animations look like they're moving too fast.
Just like those old black&white movies without the original sound.
Because they don't have a consistent speed or something.
But I mean, lower framerates, say again more like 30-ish, gives a more dramatic movie-like effect which I've always found cooler than higher framerates.
And this time I have to say I mean modern movie-like effect.
I know getting lower means the performance is lower, which isn't good for gameplay's sake.
And you're also more bothered by it and stuff.
But they should have put the FR-cap at like 30-40, your system would still decide if it would drop under that 30-40.
I know it's capped at 100, but they could've done lower, like they did with C&C3 also at 30.
And I know it's a whole other type of game, but to get the effect, it's kool.
You don't even see it that well in C&C3, so why bother you know :P .
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2007 @ 21:42
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6. August 2007 @ 22:28 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2007 @ 22:29
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MaccerM
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7. August 2007 @ 02:02 |
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Waymon, I think for what it is your system is performing well, but I would say from my experince that you are definitely CPU limited. My p4 3.2 never used to max in BF2 either but it's the whole picture you need to be looking at, your old DDR and your m/board too. Your 3Dmark CPU score is still better than mine was tho, I think I got about 830 o/clocked at 3.44ghz, but with my C2D it's now ~1800 and that's stock.
My point from my first post is that this card is too powerful for the vast majority of old AGP rigs out there - overkill. You're never gonna tax it with an old P4. I found that my old 7800gs was probably about the right level for my p4 rig as there was no real game performance ramp with the X1950XT. And with the hassle of just trying to get this thing to go, and get it stable (PSU & overheating) a high-end Nvidia AGP offering is probably the best bet for most users, more appropriate level of power, and power usage!
Sam, fyi my old psu was a Thermaltake TR2500, which I would call a mid-range PSU (Budget PSU, from top manufacturer at mid price range in the market). I don't think more than 30A+ 12v on a 450W psu is really going to be mid price range? (unless you think Enermax's are cheap!?)
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. August 2007 @ 02:40 |
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DInc: Are you on drugs? That's the most ridiculous post I've seen in a while!
A 7950GT would pull off DiRT on PCI express, as for AGP, who knows!
DiRT does seem to be a very demanding game. I doubt i'd be able to run it max at anything above 1680x1050, if that
I've never had that problem with high framerates, unless you have a very strange desync issue, all the frame rate should affect is stuff being smoother.
At 30fps, I find playing FPS a struggle, it's too jittery for me. The limit is around 50fps. Above that you're not likely to see any different.
Bear in mind we're after the AVERAGE frame rate.
Picture a game with a simple bland graphics section, then later on a richly detailed section.
If you aim for 60fps in the bland section (well above 30-40), supposing you only get 15 in the detailed sectin, and have to turn the graphics down then?
It's all about finding the setting that works for everything
The 8800 can be cooled, just look at the Thermalright HR-03 Plus, I use the standard version of the HR-03 for my X1900XT, no problems. Not even with 500rpm case fans. However, in the case of that thing, it'll be crap because
PELTIER COOLERS ARE RUBBISH.
Why do you think they only exist in mini-fridges, and not in the real things? They're really inefficient, so in handling 100W of heat from a graphics card, youre ending up with even more heat coming out of the card because of the inefficiency of the cooler.
MaccerM: What's the point you're making? I'm a little confused.
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MaccerM
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7. August 2007 @ 03:19 |
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Hi Sam, to clarify...
You said: 'You obviously had a bad power supply.' I thought I'd let you know what it was and in my opinion the TT TR2500 was a fair, mid range PSU that was capable of running a 7 series Nvidia card in a loaded system (2 hdd, 2 opticals etc etc).
'you can run an X1950XT on a 350W unit' - can you? I have not seen a 350W unit that puts out the ampage you need (at least 40A 12v unless you're not gonna use and HDDs etc!).
I guess my point /the reason for my posts is that I wanted to tell people about what I experienced - My frustration at having a sensible ThermalTake 500W that wasn't good enough when the manufacturers recommend you have a 450W, (which could be a Q-tec for all they know!), instead of stating a minimum of 30A on the 12v instead like they should.
So recommending to people that I think if they want this card they should aim for a 700W PSU is a good thing, especially when you cannot find detailed specs for all PSUs. Therefore by impliction I think your post was a little misleading, (but not neccisarily wrong). (Hey I notice you have a TT Toughpower 750 - nice PSU!)
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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7. August 2007 @ 03:24 |
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You don' need 40A on the 12V Rail, what you need to bear in mind is that a lot of PSUs are incapable of putting out the amount they say they can. As a consequence, the manufacturers say you should go with a big power supply to be sure. This is where people have been attracted to 1000W powwer supplies, they just aren't necessary. A guy I know runs an Overclocked Core 2 Duo (2.13 to 3.20) and an overclocked 8800GTS on a 350W Hiper unit, simply because they can source as much power as stated on the label.
Going for powerful PSUs is unnecessary, what you're doing there is costing them money. I have a Toughpower 750 because I was under the impression with a big 14cm fan it would be quiet. Not so. my next PSU is going to be a Corsair 620W. Lower wattage, but I'm not bothered, if one of those can run two 8800GTXs in SLI with an overclocked quad core and 5 hard disks, I fail to see why you'd need 700W For an X1950XT AGP.
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MaccerM
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7. August 2007 @ 03:45 |
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Yeah I'm sure that might be possible, just! C2Ds are not very hungry and with the 8800 eating what's left, (what do they use? 150, 180W?) he's probably running that baby at full tilt (and will probably kill it before it's time). But I'm betting that is a premium model 350W, not a Hiper bog standard. This was my point, you won't run this card on 70% of the 450W PSU's out there
So, fair enough then, what should then be recommended is a premium PSU, like an Antec/Enermax 450W+ or a Thermaltake Purepower/Toughpower 600W+ or most importantly something that can put out about 40A minimum on the 12v rail. (My TR2 500 had 29A and that would cut out every time my card went into 3D mode.)
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. August 2007 @ 03:48 |
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Hmm, and what CPU do you use? 29A is cutting it a bit fine.
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MaccerM
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7. August 2007 @ 04:06 |
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That was on a 3.2 Ghz P4, so it didn't cut it - at all, but it wouldn't with my less hungry E6320 either. The ATi 12v spec requirement for this card is 30A, with a 'loaded system'. A loaded system is one 'with one HDD and one optical drive' (Ati support).
Remembering that the ampage quoted on most PSU specs is the peak not sustained a sensible thing to do is take 1/3-1/4 off - or add it on to get you minimum. So 40A minimum is what you will need for a x1950xt.
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. August 2007 @ 04:37 |
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On most PSUs I've seen I'm sure it was listed as sustained. In any case, good Power supplies don't use proportions of the total output for the different voltages. A lot quote up to their maximum rating, just for 12V alone. For example, my PSU is rated for 750W, but can deliver up to 64A on the 12V rail.
An X1900XT (I'd imagine similar power consumption to the X1950XT) uses about 12A at full load, my overclocked E4300 (and overvolted) uses around 15A, factoring in the efficiency of the Motherboard. Add say an extra 4A for two hard disks and a DVDRW drive, maybe an extra 1A for fans, and an extra 1.5A for various cold cathode lights. The rest will likely come from the 5V rail.
That comes to about 34A. That's 30 amps to spare, a full 360W.
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MaccerM
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7. August 2007 @ 04:56 |
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Sure, so we are agreed then. The minimum you want to be looking for on the 12v is 40A. You don't want to be running your PSU full whack, and some people will have less efficient processors than you.
My point about the spec:
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power...W0116/w0116.asp
That is your PSU, and it was the one I was going to get but my local shop didn't have it in so I got a 700W Jeantech instead because I wanted modular cabling. Anyway, the yellow 'combined output' sticker at the top of this page rates 60A combined 12v ampage and Thermaltake give you this figure which I think is sustained. However if you look at the bottom of the page, there are 4 12v rails, each rated at 18A. 4 x 18A is 72, so where did those 12A go? - that is the difference between peak and sustained but not all PSU manufacturers give you that combined figure, they just tell you what each rail maxes at hence why I wouldn't expect a 30A rated PSU to either supply 30A or run a X1950XT.
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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7. August 2007 @ 05:03 |
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30A on multi-rail is not so great, I agree. If you're going to have a low-end power supply, get a single rail one. Where the Toughpower is good is that it doesn't have 4 rails at all, just 1, because all 4 rails are soldered together.
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Senior Member
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7. August 2007 @ 05:15 |
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wait.. So what? are you telling me that the power supply isnt enough to run the x1950xt? Or the cpu?
Refurring to what MacerM said earlier (alot earlier) about a P4, well to tell you the truth, I used to have a ATi radeon 9800XT and it played BF2 on high (everything high) with 1280x960 and got decent frames... That was my first card I had in this computer. (also with only a gig of ram)
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