|
|
|
Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
|
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
13. September 2007 @ 20:06 |
Link to this message
|
Well I guess I was speaking theoretically - you know, engine turbines. Haha - probably not a computer fan ever made in history like that - but jet engine turbine fans, now that's another story.
I'm glad you liked the mnemonic. I'll never be able to forget your rule, now, counter, like counting!
Thanks for the new link. So Sony has developed this miracle spindle that is absolutely noiseless - outstanding!
I guess most people would rather bring in from the bottom front, if the case allowed it. I think I'm going to be just about ready for the Gecube, pretty soon. I moved the burner to the other computer, testing it now, and since you are okay with the kama, I'll probably order it tonight. Then I'll cut out the restrictive round holes, buy a grill from kardson's link (for bling), the sunbeam "hose" is on the way, and then I'll wander over to Mo's "house" and see what loose fans he wants to "give" me to make up for the telescoping plastic part he binned - and besides, what is he going to do with them, anyway, they're just collecting dust. My science project is doing well. :=)
See you, Sam
|
|
Advertisement
|
 |
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 03:14 |
Link to this message
|
|
It's not a noiseless spindle, far from it really, but it's quieter than most fans. You just have to beware that any fluid bearing fan should not be placed directly on a heat source. You can do it, but after a year or so, the fan starts to make more noise. Not something the average PC user cares about, but in the silencing world, fans get replaced regularly.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 10:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
sammorris
Interesting, Sam - keep the fluid bearing fans away from heat sources. So that type of fan doesn't make a great heat sink fan - you can expect to start getting some noise after a year. My heat-free application up front is perfect then!
Waymon and Kardson
On another front, we haven't heard from Travis and Raymond for a while.
Is the BF2 Matchup still on?
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 11:23 |
Link to this message
|
|
Indeed, a silentPC enthusiast would use sleeve bearing case fans (usually nexus or papst) and use slow ball bearing fans or Fluid dynamic fans (Adda for the former, Scythe and Noctua for the latter). Note that 'silent' power supplies use sleeve bearing fans, such as my Thermaltake Toughpower with its 140mm Yate Loon. Power supplies that actually are quiet use ball bearing fans (such as the Corsair HX series - a 120mm Adda), don't believe marketing spiel! That magic 8dB fan that boots out airflow just doesn't exist I'm afraid.
Typical examples:
SilenX case fan advertised as 40CFM and 11dB. Actual performance was 35CFM and 26dB.
Noctua case fan advertised as 30CFM and 8dB. Actual performance was 30CFM and 20dB.
Thermaltake case fan advertised as 75CFM and 21dB. Actual performance was 70CFM and 38dB. (Thermaltake are worst for it)
|
|
kardson
Junior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 12:10 |
Link to this message
|
|
Can we set up the BF2 showdown for next weekend?
Im pretty drugged up right now, had all 4 wisdom teeth ripped out of my mouth today.
The whole procedure seems so dan barbaric...
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 12:12 |
Link to this message
|
|
Ouch, glad you made it through alive! I had two teeth removed so I know what it's like. It's not so much the removal that's horrible, it's what all that anaesthetic does to your gums afterwards, or at least that's what I found.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 12:58 |
Link to this message
|
sammorris
You're a good guy to know, Sam, when I get tired of all the noise! I ordered the Kama Bay yesterday.
Hey, here's a thought. I'm going to put in the black Kama Bay (not the newegg white one) and I'm going to pull the fan out, using the case basically as just a baffle across the 3-bay opening.
That's right. No fan at all, for a test!
Then, with the cpu HSF ducted to an opened-up side hole, and more powerful exhaust fans at the back, and a new one at position 3, the rectangular inlet, the PSU fan, and the blitztorm going at full blast, I'm going to see what type of draw I get through the front of the fan-less Kama Bay.
...............................
In order for those 4 exhaust fans to move air, the air has to come into the case from somewhere, and there are only two holes in, the side hole ducted to the cpu HSF, and the front 3-bay hole.
To put it another way, if I can feel lots of air exiting the back and lower back side of the case, I can reasonably assume that air is coming in through the Kama Bay, right?
It has always fascinated me that you can take two horses, and have them pull opposite each other, like when you draw and quarter a peasant (you would know more about this than I would, Sam.) :=) The fascinating part is that you don't really gain any extra pulling force than if you let one horse have the day off, and tie the other end of the rope to a tree. (In other words, instead of four horses quartering the dude, you only need two horses and two trees.) The fact that the peasant isn't moving (until something comes off - pardon my crude imagery) means that the forces are balanced. He is getting a one-horse force, balanced by another one-horse force. If you tie one end of the rope to a tree, it's the same thing. A one-horse force balanced by a one-horse force - the tree isn't going anywhere so the forces are balanced.
Back to my case. Exhaust air is blasting out the back of the case under the power of FOUR 70mm fans. To balance all that negative pressure inside the case, intake air is rushing in through the empty Kama Bay casing.
Everything makes sense so far, right?
So, now, let me add an intake fan to that equation. Here's my question: What if I already have so much air coming in that I don't need the fan? Is it possible, then, that the intake fan would just sit there and flutter, basically just trying to keep up with all the air that is trying to blow past it anyway. It's like pushing someone on a merry go round - if they fly past so fast that you try to push but can't really keep up, yes your arm and body goes in the same direction as they are going, but you didn't add anything to their enjoyment, other than the spectacle of watching you trip head over heels. =)
To put it another way, suppose I were to leave in the 800rpm 120mm scythe that comes with the Kama Bay. In its slow revolutions, is it conceivable that it could actually impede the progress of the air that wants to rush into the case, and create a blockage? If so, better to just remove it and see what's going on, right Sam?
To summarize, I think I should start out and begin by trying to see if I am getting good air movement with the empty Kama Bay. I have no flow-meters so it is going to be very subjective. I do have the ability to track two case temperatures through speedfan, so I could load up the system with 3dmark 6, letting it cycle 9 times, (oh, that won't work I can't run 3d mark and speed fan at the same time) - well I could use the 3d renderer of ATT non full-screen size like this:
...
And doing it that way, I can watch the case fan temps. Then I could put the fan back in the Kama Bay, and see what happens to my case fan temps. Then I could put a 1600 rpm fan in the Kama Bay, and see if that gives me even more flow out the back - in other words not only keeps up with the air that is already coming in the front, but gives it a big boost!
What do you think of all of this, Sam? Anybody else?
Regards,
Rich
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:02 |
Link to this message
|
|
Kardson
I have to echo Sam's sentiment, Travis. Four teeth. It's a wonder you're still with us! (My drawn and quarter analogy is probably what you feel like you've just been through.)
Raymond (waymon) are you up for the BF2 matchup in a week or two when Travis rejoins the living?
Hope the swelling comes down fast, Travis, and that it will all just be a fond distant memory very soon.
rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:08 |
Link to this message
|
Now thinking about it, it seems obvious why your case was warm. Not because it didn't have enough fans, but because there was nowhere for the air to come in. The kama bay should make a big difference.
Did you say four 70mm fans? All in that back vent? Then surely you can fit a 140mm fan, which would be a much better idea.
You're on the right lines with the 800rpm Scythe fan causing impedance, but I don't think there'll be 30CFM through those holes if it weren't there. Scythe aren't silly, if there was no need for it, they wouldn't put it there.
Why can't you run speedfan and 3dmark at the same time? I run speedfan all the time and have no problems caused by having it running.
I sometimes even alt-tab out of games, adjust my CPU fan speed, then go back into the game!
As for the 1600rpm scythe at the front, if the 800's not enough, the 1200 may do. A 1600rpm fan is managable in a PC, but when it's facing you directly, it'll same that much more obtrusive.
If you can use a 140mm fan for the back, how about this fan?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/i...oducts_id=20771
Cheaper than most fans, sleeve bearing and produces significant airflow for insignificant noise.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:13 |
Link to this message
|
|
Kardson
By the way, Travis, in all your pain, you probably didn't notice that congratulations are in order to you and to myself - we lost the "newbie" designation and moved forward into Junior Member status! =P
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:15 |
Link to this message
|
|
Congratulations!
Now get to Addict status....
Lol
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:17 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thank you, Sam!
Addict indeed! I better get my butt out there and sell some houses! Lol
Rich
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:31 |
Link to this message
|
sammorris
Ah hah, so that's the psu fan you were talking about - I like the name, Yate Loon!
Sam, the 4 70mm fans are in four different locations on the back. 1. One of them is built into the PSU. 2. Another one is in a small back case fan location (a slow 1200 rpm fan is there right now that I am going to replace with something that moves more air). 3. Another one, per Travis, is going over the rectangular hole at the lower back of my side case cover, and 4. the final one is the blitztorm blower - sorry not really a 70mm fan - it's a blower. So that's four fans in four different locations - no room for the Yate Loon I'm afraid.
You said the manufacturer wouldn't put a fan in the Kama Bay if there weren't a need for it. But, Sam, that's the reason for my post. The manufacturer had no way of knowing that Travis would redesign my cooling, and have me put that additional exhaust fan at position 3 - the rectangular hole.
...
So, in my opinion, we have to face the real possibility that a fan could become an obstacle instead of improving the flow.
The other thing - I of course can run speedfan, and ATT, with 3dmark6, but in the background, since 3dmark6 runs full screen. That was my only point. Yes, I could Alt Tab out of the 3dmark6 (would it let me bounce out and back in that way?) but I was thinking more of not having to do that.
...
As opposed to this picture, since I only want case temps, I could make the renderer large to load down the cpu and gpu, and leave a piece of the screen with those two temps.
Watcha think?
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 13:51 |
Link to this message
|
Ah right. They should all be 80mm fans, not 70 I would expect. The PSU fan certainly has an 80mm fan, I can see from the picture.
I'm sure you appreciate if I thought they were 70mm fans (that slot at the back is far more than 70mm wide), then you could fit four in there, two across, two down. That would have been a 140mm x 140mm square, so the D14SM-12 would have fit, but never mind.
I'm only assuming the back fan's an 80mm job too, which would explain why it pushes no air at 1200rpm. Even a 120mm fan is quiet at that speed!
I see what you're saying about not being able to check temperatures during.
To solve that problem I bought one of these:
http://www.pertelian.com/joomla/index.ph...id=43&Itemid=48
Reads you speedfan's CPU temperature, shows you CPU and memory usage, or it can show you whether you have any emails (as long as your email is P.O.P.), how much network traffic is flowing, what song your listening to (itunes or WMP), whether there are any new updates to a forum, and goodness knows what else.
My case has a temperature probe system on it anyway, but it no longer works. (No matter, analogue probes aren't usually that good anyway).
|
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:01 |
Link to this message
|
wow, havent been here for a while. Anyways, sure the BF2 match is still uo, I'm dine to do it for whenever, just make it on a sunday/ after 1pm on saturday est time, and I'll be available.
Btw, what server should we join? I live in connectucut, so I dont really want to join a server with a ping over 100 (I have cable)
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:04 |
Link to this message
|
|
So think about poor old me whose internet connection is 350ms between 3pm and 1am. Work my back off for 3 weeks trying to get BT to repair the phone line so I can actually get the internet, and when it finally arrives, the 8Megabit connection is lmited to 600-800kbps down (50KB/s download speeds) and a massive ping in the PM hours.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:33 |
Link to this message
|
sammorris, waymon and kardson,
Well, mate, we never told you to live in England! :=)
Raymond (waymon) you're back! How's things in Connecticut? Travis (kardson) is still up for the BF2 matchup, but not just yet, having lost 4 teeth recently. !!!!!!!!! I think Travis is also on the East Coast - I'm not sure why I think that, but .........
Sorry, Sam, I didn't even know that there was an 80mm class of fans, I thought it was 40, 70, 120, and 140. (Never mind - I know nothing, remember? They might have upgraded me to junior member here, but I'm really newbie all the way, compared to you guys.) Yes I do see what you thought I meant, 4 70s would equal one big 140, makes perfect sense. So what size should I be looking to put on that rectangular slot?
..............................
The exact dimensions are 4.5" wide, by 3.25" high, or 82mm by 114mm. Probably an 80, right?
Or should I just take my drill (which I am going to be doing anyway on the round holes) and run another line of holes to square the whole thing off at 114 x 114, (or 120mm by 120mm for that matter) and then put a 120 there? Maybe that's where I'll mount the 120mm that I'll take out of the Kama Bay.
..............................
That is a nifty little thing you've got sitting up on top of your computer - tells you when the postman's at the front door too? Jeeezzzz!
Rich
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:39 |
Link to this message
|
Hey guys,
Here's just a little bit more about that Kama Bay. Nice review of it here:kama bay
And this is how the little jewel mounts:
...
and this is how the front of your case looks:
...................
Pretty nifty, huh!
rich
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:44 |
Link to this message
|
|
By the way, Sam, I forgot this in the last post, but you said something about temp sensors not working that reminded me:
What do you know (for the future) about motherboards with several pwm fan headers?
(I mean if there were enough pwm fan headers on the mobo, would I need the Mcubed?)
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:45 |
Link to this message
|
It's not really england's fault, at home, although the signal is poor because of an old telephone line, we do get a constant 4.5Mbps (450KB/s download) and a constant ping of 49ms.
At university, the residential connection was 10Mbps synchronous (900KB/s either way, but no torrenting) and the connection at the LAN party was 100Mbps synchronous (8MB/s either way shared between 30) and unlimited. It was awesome!
As a matter of fact, 80mm fans are far more common than 70s. The only thing I can think of that uses 70mm fans is the Xbox and the Xbox 360. I've never owned a 70mm fan. My PCs have had 40mm, 60mm, 80mm, 92mm, 120mm, 140mm and 200mm fans.
The rectangular slot looks like it'd want an 80mm fan to be honest. You could put a 120mm fan there, and just have reduced airflow.
Unfortunately the Pertelian isn't able to tell me if the postman arrives, and as such couldn't wake me up to tell me that the BT engineer arrived at 9:05am on a SUNDAY!
I have actually seen a Kama Bay, a friend of mine had one, don't know whether he still has it or not, I think he does.
As far as I'm aware, Speedfan can control at least three PWM fans, maybe even five. If your motherboard has enough connectors you would only need use speedfan and could forget the MCubed.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. September 2007 @ 14:47
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
Right, so which mobo would that be? (If you happen to know off-hand - not too pressing since I'm a year or two away.)
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 14:57 |
Link to this message
|
|
I don't know, it depends. As far as I know, my board can only support one PWM fan, and one non-PWM fan off its headers.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 16:02 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yeah same with mine. So in a year or two I'll have to look for some multiple pwm support on a mobo - if there is such a thing - or just buy the Mcubed.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. September 2007 @ 16:58
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. September 2007 @ 16:29 |
Link to this message
|
Hey everybody,
Here's the big debate:
I don't know if you remember my side panel, but here it is again.
...................
Here's a closeup of the area where Travis wants me to mount an additional exhaust fan:
....................
Sam is saying, just put the 80mm. Okay, here's how that would look:
...
Or Sam is saying, well, you could put the 120mm, and just have reduced airflow, so here it is:
...
Any opinions from anybody? Looks to me like the 120 would push more air even with the blockage. Would that cause additional noise - the blockage?
Rich
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. September 2007 @ 16:37 |
Link to this message
|
|
You photoshopped that Yate loon 140mm to appear as an 80mm? Despicable! lol
The blockage would cause a bit of a roaring noise, but nothing too much as long as you don't have a fast fan there. If you use the scythe from the kama bay, that's a 20dB fan, you wouldn't notice it at all.
|
|
