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Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
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kardson
Junior Member
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11. December 2007 @ 19:11 |
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the forum post that will not die.......
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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11. December 2007 @ 19:47 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The 200mm fan on top of the 900 is quite slow, and while it pushes quite a fair bit of air without that much noise, don't think it counts as 'extreme cooling'.
Funny you should mention the Zalman PSUs, believe it or not Corsair ones not only run cooler, but also quieter. Zalman seem to be getting beaten in pretty much every area they make products in. Scythe, Nexus and Sharkoon make better case fans, Corsair make better power supplies, Thermalright and Tuniq make better heatsinks, and so on...
As for the dust, my room doesn't see that much activity, yet the PCs get covered in dust easily. Funny, since the shelves in this house don't attract anywhere near as much dust as back home in Essex.
The PSU will cool itself fine, don't worry about the naysayers, having a PSU upside down works perfectly well enough.
Well, to be honest, I like my current Zalman PSU.
The only worry I have is that the air might move slow through the PSU.
But I guess that's a combination of heatpipes and a slower fan to reduce noise.
But what I think of the Antec is, that you could create a nice steady and consistent airflow with the cooling-features it has, also at the right spots.
Many fans at a low speed, even added up, would seem to me it would be less noise than like a couple of less fans at higher speeds.
I would add a Arctic Cooling fan with their patented construction on the side panel.
I love mine, no noise and vibration almost at all, just the moving (also meaning sound) of wind.
And if the stock fans make too much noise, even at the lowest setting, there are always good aftermarket ones.
There might not be many 200mm's, but I guess since you said so it doesn't make too much noise.
I would like it to just turn at a lower speed as some extra cooling on top anyways.
And considering it's size, it might or would indeed push out a lot of air.
I've looked at many other cases, but couldn't find almost any that got even close to the construction, features, just the look and setup-up or interface, you know how to work with it and all.
Maybe just 1, which I don't remember anymore...
Most are just like, really simple, small fans and also the standard 2 or 3, a lot of closed fronts, etc. etc.
And they're also expensive a lot, especially considering the lack of features compared to the 900.
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11. December 2007 @ 20:32 |
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Quote:
Many fans at a low speed, even added up, would seem to me it would be less noise than like a couple of less fans at higher speeds
That's right, and surprisingly few people realise that. "Mmm, lots of fans it must be noisy" - no, lots of fans means slow fans, and therefore quiet!
The arctic cooling fans whilst quiet don't push very much air at the same speed, so work out about average in the scheme of things. They do have a smooth noise character though, useful in a "low noise, but not silent" environment.
There are no aftermarket 200mm fans, but I don't really see the top fan on the 900 as a problem, you just have to undervolt it so it spins slowly. Really slowly though, one wonders whether it's worth having it move at all. The front grilles with visible fans offers a marginal airflow improvement over most cases for the front fans, but the side-effect of this means they are much louder than normal fans. To keep mine silent I have to run them on low at around 5V, running at around 500rpm. That obviously results in tiny amount of airflow.
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MaccerM
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12. December 2007 @ 17:42 |
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Well if anyone wants to buy my X1950XT AGP with the HR-03 it'll be on Ebay next week! (hopefully) Have ordered a Evga 8800GT SSC and an Asus P5N32-E SLi. Getting uber fed up with the instability of my system at anything above 2ghz on the cpu so I thought I'd bite the bullet as the 8800gt is clearly the best bang for buck card that's been out for ages and I should be able to get the 25-50% overclock on the cpu I'm after with that m/b. Gonna put a cheapy E2160 in my old board and give it to my dad as he's still running a XP2400+!! Only thing is I hope they are able to get the card in and deliver before xmas. (I'm sure all these current stock shortages are just so they can get the gts' out of the way!)
For anyone getting a 8800GT, I noticed this post on the Evga forum;
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=149429&mpage=1&key=
it seems the current drivers (they seem to agree on the Nvidia drivers) are not ramping up the fan speed when the card heats up so rivatuner from day one is a good idea!
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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12. December 2007 @ 17:48 |
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Should have gotten a HD 3870. 8800GT is very good though.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. December 2007 @ 17:49
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MaccerM
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12. December 2007 @ 17:56 |
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Nah, not really. For a start I've had more probs with this ATi card than I've ever had with all my gfx cards. All my Nvids have been fine. (Yep, definitely bias! Once bitten twice shy and all that!) 3870 isn't better than a 8800 anyway, and falls noticeably behind if you use AA/AF (and I do use AA) Crossfire has loads more bugs than SLi, performance is well below 8800gt SLi and I've bought the SSC edition which is runs 700/2000/1600 so it will kick any 3870's ass!!
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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12. December 2007 @ 18:04 |
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It's a little slower, but it gives better image quality, which is the entire point of upgrading GFX card, to make the games look better.
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MaccerM
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12. December 2007 @ 18:14 |
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Hmm, well I'd say that the ability to run AA is enhancing image quality even if the colours aren't as vibrant. And for me, fps is the primary indicator of performance. Highest fps card will last the longest in terms of new releases and future playability and I don't want to have to buy a new one in 8 mths time! (Probably will though!)
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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12. December 2007 @ 18:19 |
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I'll happily take the HR-03 but you can keep the X1950XT thanks!
I think you're stupid not to buy another ATI card just because you've had issues with one ATI don't even officially support!
I see you've been turned to a complete nvidia fanboy as you have the facts all wrong on the 3870. A shame really. Well, enjoy your expensive and outdated 8800GT. The rest of us can enjoy highly defined Anti-aliased better rendered graphics!
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12. December 2007 @ 18:22 |
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I don't thing GeCube is known for making great products so that's why you probably had a bad experience. Now if you had a HIS card it would be different.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 18:42 |
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Indeed. However, it stands to reason that Gecube are the only company to try that experimental card. Why do you think the other manufacturers didn't follow suit?
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MaccerM
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12. December 2007 @ 19:02 |
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I didn't realise I'd cause such offence! Well sure, Gecube did a rubbish job, and I have had good ati cards like the 9800s, I'm certainly not a fanboy, I just pick whatever I think's best. HD3870s are worth getting if you are going to crossfire as they are cheaper (sorry about that nowhere near as good as SLi bit - not technically true!) but card vs card the benchmarks say the 8800gt has it, otherwise they couldn't justify the price premium.
I don't have £300+ just to blow on gfx, and as the G100 and R700 are due soon I don't really see the point on buying two current gen cards now. I think the 8800 is clearly the best option (for me as I don't want to buy DDR3 either or settle for a cut-down X38 to use my DDR2)
Just out of interest Sam, what was the last Nvidia card you owned?
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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12. December 2007 @ 19:23 |
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The bit about crossfire being rubbish compared to SLi was the only truthful thing in your post!
The 8800GT is, without question, faster than the 3870. However, the difference just isn't that big, and considering in most games the frame rate difference is less than 10%, I'd go with the card that's futureproof.
As for the last nvidia card I owned, it was a Geforce 4 MX440 PCI. A long time ago eh? I had no problems in it, and I'm happy to acknowledge it worked fine for me. The fact that I've subsequently owned ATi cards has simply been because they worked out better for me at the time. The Radeon 9200 was part of a pre-packaged PC deal, the X800 pro that replaced it was because there were no 6800GTs to be had, and that the X800Pro had VIVO. The X1900XT was pretty much for the same reason. I would be more than happy to buy an 8800GTX if I had a high budget, but I see no reason to, when an HD3870 would suffice for a much lower cost and has more features, but above all renders a better quality image, and isn't that why you get a more powerful graphics card in the first place? The low frame rate vs high frame rate is neither here nor there, if the frame rate was too low you'd turn the detail down, so I'm quite happy to get a few fewer fps, because it earns me a better quality image! I much prefer decent looking games to having frame rates in the hundreds.
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12. December 2007 @ 19:26 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Quote:
Many fans at a low speed, even added up, would seem to me it would be less noise than like a couple of less fans at higher speeds
That's right, and surprisingly few people realise that. "Mmm, lots of fans it must be noisy" - no, lots of fans means slow fans, and therefore quiet!
The arctic cooling fans whilst quiet don't push very much air at the same speed, so work out about average in the scheme of things. They do have a smooth noise character though, useful in a "low noise, but not silent" environment.
There are no aftermarket 200mm fans, but I don't really see the top fan on the 900 as a problem, you just have to undervolt it so it spins slowly. Really slowly though, one wonders whether it's worth having it move at all. The front grilles with visible fans offers a marginal airflow improvement over most cases for the front fans, but the side-effect of this means they are much louder than normal fans. To keep mine silent I have to run them on low at around 5V, running at around 500rpm. That obviously results in tiny amount of airflow.
Well, of Arctic Cooling I only like the one with the special constructions, so the ones that have this rubber suspension thing, which is just great.
While the propellers themselves aren't covered on the sides, which worries me about losing air-pressure/flow, they blow pretty hard at full speed and quiet.
I do not like the conventional construction of their fans, the 120mm's I have had, even 2 or 3 types, were noisy like ODDs.
However, that was at full speed since I could not change that, so they might be quiet(er) at lower speeds.
But I thought the 900 had a switch for 3 settings or something?
I saw the video-review by 3DGameMan on the official Antec-website, and he showed and let hear 3 different settings.
To be honest I only like the lowest setting, which seems to be quite enough to me for airflow with the amount of fans and their sizes.
Plus you have to think of that there will also be extra noise from a PSU, 1-2 HDDs, CPU-fan, GPU-fan and maybe an extra side-fan.
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12. December 2007 @ 19:32 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The bit about crossfire being rubbish compared to SLi was the only truthful thing in your post!
The 8800GT is, without question, faster than the 3870. However, the difference just isn't that big, and considering in most games the frame rate difference is less than 10%, I'd go with the card that's futureproof.
As for the last nvidia card I owned, it was a Geforce 4 MX440 PCI. A long time ago eh? I had no problems in it, and I'm happy to acknowledge it worked fine for me. The fact that I've subsequently owned ATi cards has simply been because they worked out better for me at the time. The Radeon 9200 was part of a pre-packaged PC deal, the X800 pro that replaced it was because there were no 6800GTs to be had, and that the X800Pro had VIVO. The X1900XT was pretty much for the same reason. I would be more than happy to buy an 8800GTX if I had a high budget, but I see no reason to, when an HD3870 would suffice for a much lower cost and has more features, but above all renders a better quality image, and isn't that why you get a more powerful graphics card in the first place? The low frame rate vs high frame rate is neither here nor there, if the frame rate was too low you'd turn the detail down, so I'm quite happy to get a few fewer fps, because it earns me a better quality image! I much prefer decent looking games to having frame rates in the hundreds.
If anything you should get a 8800GT, GTX is a waste of money and has even weaker points VS the GT, it's the new standard man. :)
And I agree, I also want quality of course, I would already be happy if my games would NOT hit under a framerate of 30-40, meaning it will always be at least smooth.
Which is more than playable if it can do that, I can know because I always play games with framerates varying from 10-20 to 30-40, plus stutters/pauses, which I hate.
I also hate those people which say a framerate of 30-40-50-60 isn't good enough and not playable, because that's simply not true.
Personally I like anything between 30-40 to 60-80-100, as long as it doesn't hit a moment under that.
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12. December 2007 @ 19:39 |
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Well just to chime in, the last Nvidia card I owned was a 8800GTX, and it's 3dmark score was about 11,500, while with a HD 3850 I am getting 10,000.
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12. December 2007 @ 19:45 |
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Quote:
It's the new standard man. :)
Nope, the new standard is the HD3870.
As all 8800GT fanboys state, the 8800GT is faster. The fact that it's only 5-10% faster in almost all games is irrelevant, simply the fact that it sits on top means it's god. if you think properly about it, that difference on 30-40fps simply isn't noticeable, and even when it is, I'd still consider it slight. However, I think having games look jagged or blurred regardless of what resolution you run them at is unacceptable, especially for a card that expensive (and by this I mean the fact that the 8800GT will not support DX10.1 and therefore will never be able to run Anti-Aliasing with DX10 titles). I like my smooth quality looking games. In this day and age, buying cards that render a shoddy image just shouldn't be necessary, not for frame rate gains you're never going to see.
As for the fans, the Arctic cooling fans with the rubber suspension are the ones I was talking about before. They are quiet, but because they push so little air due to an inefficient blade design, they work out no better than any other fans.
With the 900, yes it has 3 speed settings, but even at the lowest setting the 120mm fans run at 1200rpm, that's high for a silent PC, when you consider that the Nexus real silent fan runs at only 1000rpm, and most people undervolt them to reduce their noise further. I run my case fans at only 750rpm.
With regard to the noise from the extra devices, that's only if you get noisy ones. If you want a silent PC, you'll make sure you quieten every one of those sources. Buy a proper quiet Corsair PSU, get silent enclosures and/or anti-vibration mounting for hard drives, use a low speed silent CPU heatsink, get a fanless graphics card or use a Thermalright cooler so you can run it fanless, and if you buy a side fan, make sure it's a silent one. It's perfectly doable, because I've practically done it. All that remains is to get the Corsair power supply. Even with the Thermaltake one in my PC at the moment, the system is utterly inaudible from about 6 feet away. With the Antec case's fans on low, you have to be about 15 feet away before you stop hearing the roar of the air through those uncovered front fan vents.
Originally posted by Abuzar1:
Well just to chime in, the last Nvidia card I owned was a 8800GTX, and it's 3dmark score was about 11,500, while with a HD 3850 I am getting 10,000.
And that's only an HD3850, let alone an HD3870. Cut the bull and buy a 3870, Maccer. Seriously. Why would I offer you false advice?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. December 2007 @ 19:47
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 20:05 |
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Also to chime in the drivers for the ATi cards aren't that good right now. Maybe later on it might even be FASTER than the 8800GT.
Anyway it seems you already bought it and I don't want to rain on your parade. So by all means enjoy, as the 8800GT is still an excellent card. Have fun and don't forget to post your 3Dmark score.
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MaccerM
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12. December 2007 @ 20:23 |
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Well crossfire does well at some things, scales nearly 100% in some games but does really bad in others. When a GT outpaces the single 3870 so easily what is the point of a single 3870 purchase!? At least with the GT you can run Crysis in full details and get over 20fps!
Just look at the DX9 performance here;
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2...=1057&chart=277
most games are 20% faster in this rig, (40% in 2142 in that link!) better and in the couple that the ATi is better in are by 1-2%, and the card shown there is not as fast as the SSC I'm getting and it's shown against the 825mhz ATi!
This review, although a little on Nvidia's side, has some other stuff and some CF tests too;
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/3870-XXX/testsystem.php
Tweaktown has closer results;
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1222/1/...tion/index.html
but the 8800 is still the DX9 winner and best for Crysis. DX10 is a little more swings and roundabouts but the margins are marginally better for the 8800 on games it prefers, and it does better at the lower res 1280x1024 so I think I'll be happy with it.
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz-1.275v & TRUE, Asus P5N-T Deluxe, 4Gb Dominator 1066 (5-5-5-15), Inno3d OC 8800GTs in SLi with TT Duorbs, 580w 5.1 Setup, 2x DVD-RAM, 320&160Gb SATA2 HDDs, 17" 3ms Hyundai TFT, 700w Jeantech PSU.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 20:31 |
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It works better for crysis because the nvidia driver for the 8800Gt automatically detects Crysis.exe and scales down the image quality to improve FPS. Try renaming the file to anything else and you will see better quality and lower frames.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 20:43 |
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Yep, Crysis will look crap with the 8800GT since nvidia edited the drivers to make the game run faster, simply to show off higher benchmark scores. The render quality is terrible though, and it shows.
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12. December 2007 @ 20:44 |
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what would you rather choose: one of the best and fastest card of this time or a card that produces the cleanest, most crisp graphics and is more future-proof? because that's how it looks like between the two cards.
the HD3870 may be slightly slower, but the graphics quality makes up for the speed. there's always a compromise.
ps2: v7 scph-39001 - independence exploit - hdloader 0.8c - maxtor 300gb hdd
(+[__]%) psp slim ta-085v1: 6.60 PRO B10
wii (powered by bootmii/priiloader): 4.1u - d2x v10beta53-alt (base 56) - configurable usb loader v70r51/devolution r188 - wd scorpio black 7200rpm 320gig w/ ams venus ds2 enclosure
got a whole lot more to list . . .
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. December 2007 @ 20:45
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Senior Member
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12. December 2007 @ 21:00 |
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Maybe I should change the name to "Gecube x1950xt and 8800GT Vs 3870 Thread"?
3870 FTW!
I feel like nvidia cut some corners with there new drivers (the Crysis performance vs quality) and therefore might have lost some customers. I think that if nvidia didnt do that, the 8800GT would perform the same as a 3870, if not less.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 21:28 |
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Change it to the video card thread. God knows we need one lol.
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. December 2007 @ 21:48 |
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Haha you changed it!
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