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NTSC (23.976fps) to PAL (25fps)... Is it worth it?
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Senior Member

5 product reviews
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8. March 2008 @ 22:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I recently made a post on my "mkv2vob, tsMuxeR & other applications to create PS3 HD video files" thread in the PS3 section that contained the following...

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Just wanted to make a post about a recent achievement that may help somebody...

As this thread clearly shows I have been converting Matroska (mkv) files to be compatible with the PS3. I decided recently that I would like to make a regular DVD version of these movies too.

This presented me a big hurdle! Since I live in Australia, the video standard is PAL here. So, as all Blu-ray sourced Matroska encodes are at 23.976 progressive. I needed to speed up the video slightly to keep it progressive and keep it all running smooth. This is also the method the professional production studios use when producing PAL DVD discs. You will notice that the PAL versions of the same movie are usually a few minutes shorter in length (about 5 minutes for a 2 hour movie). Some video encoding applications convert NTSC to PAL by simply inserting duplicate frames. While this works it makes the video not run as smooth as it should be. I could manage to do the video part correctly quite easy but the audio had me stumped for quite some time. I needed to speed up the audio while keeping all the dynamics intact at the same time. I tried quite a few applications and methods but after many failed attempts I finally found an answer...

I used AVIsynth with the following script:

loadplugin("D:\AVI synth plugins\NicAudio.dll")
Video=DirectShowSource("D:\Video.mkv")
Audio=NicDTSSource("D:\DTS Audio.dts")
audiodub(video,audio)
AssumeFPS(25,sync_audio=true)
SSRC(48000,false)
AddBorders(0,132,0,132)
LanczosResize(720,576)

I then used MeGUI to convert my 1hr55min (23.976fps) DTS track to a 1hr50min (25fps) Dolby AC3 track.

This method can also work for PAL-->NTSC conversion. Just change the number in AssumeFPS from 25 to 23.976 and resize to 720 x 480 instead of 720 x 576.

Note: The mkv video file loaded in the AVIsynth script is a repacked Matroska file with only a video stream.

I hope this can help somebody if they get stuck doing something similar. :-D
Mods, please excuse me carrying over that post to here but I would just like to brainstorm some ideas...

I would like to know what the more experienced people think about this. In Australia we are fortunate enough to have multi system DVD players and TV's. Although our native format is PAL, all DVD players and TV's are sold with NTSC/PAL multi system.

The reason I wanted to convert my 1080p (23.976fps) files to PAL (25fps) was to conserve more resolution, as you know PAL DVD's are 720 x 576 as opposed to NTSC DVD's being 720 x 480. I would like to hear some different ideas and experiences on the following...

What would be the pros/cons of keeping it at 23.976fps (NTSC) with less resolution than PAL?

What would be the pros/cons of converting it to PAL with a higher resolution, but having to speed up the video and audio slightly?

Note: I am using CCE for the video part of my encoding. The original video was 1920 x 816 (2.35:1) @ 23.976fps.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. March 2008 @ 04:27

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frogno1
Newbie
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9. March 2008 @ 03:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I think convert to NTSC is better.

frogno1
Senior Member

5 product reviews
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9. March 2008 @ 03:26 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by frogno1:
I think convert to NTSC is better.
Would you care to back that up with some practical experience or some reasoning behind that post?

I don't mean any offence at all but I am looking for advanced opinions. At least people that completely understand what I have posted.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. March 2008 @ 04:14

Senior Member

5 product reviews
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12. March 2008 @ 20:09 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Update: I ended up doing both and the PAL version looked better to me. With a higher vertical resolution, it's easy to understand why.

If anyone else has experienced differently, please feel free to post your thoughts. :-D

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346
Senior Member
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13. March 2008 @ 00:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I think you're right re: converting HD 1080 to PAL, particularly
since you're in PAL land.

I'm in the USA, but I've got a DVD player updated with firmware from
the UK, so I now have divx/xvid and Pal conversion within the player
to NTSC output, which works *very* well.

Regarding converting from the 23.976 > 25, how did you do it?
Did the software add frames, or did you speed it up and feed it in at 25fps?

PS Regarding your Pal/Ntsc TV, Very, very unusual here, it wold be an
expensive spcialty item. One good thing, with the advent of HD,
it makes the whole subject somewhat moot.. Thanks goodness.
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Senior Member

5 product reviews
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13. March 2008 @ 01:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by davexnet:
I think you're right re: converting HD 1080 to PAL, particularly
since you're in PAL land.

I'm in the USA, but I've got a DVD player updated with firmware from
the UK, so I now have divx/xvid and Pal conversion within the player
to NTSC output, which works *very* well.

Regarding converting from the 23.976 > 25, how did you do it?
Did the software add frames, or did you speed it up and feed it in at 25fps?

PS Regarding your Pal/Ntsc TV, Very, very unusual here, it wold be an
expensive spcialty item. One good thing, with the advent of HD,
it makes the whole subject somewhat moot.. Thanks goodness.
I sped up the video and audio so the frame rate was smooth. Here are some excerpts quoted from the first post I made on this thread...

Originally posted by Ryu77:
So, as all Blu-ray sourced Matroska encodes are at 23.976 progressive. I needed to speed up the video slightly to keep it progressive and keep it all running smooth. This is also the method the professional production studios use when producing PAL DVD discs. You will notice that the PAL versions of the same movie are usually a few minutes shorter in length (about 5 minutes for a 2 hour movie). Some video encoding applications convert NTSC to PAL by simply inserting duplicate frames. While this works it makes the video not run as smooth as it should be.
Originally posted by Ryu77:
I used AVIsynth with the following script:

loadplugin("D:\AVI synth plugins\NicAudio.dll")
Video=DirectShowSource("D:\Video.mkv")
Audio=NicDTSSource("D:\DTS Audio.dts")
audiodub(video,audio)
AssumeFPS(25,sync_audio=true)
SSRC(48000,false)
AddBorders(0,132,0,132)
LanczosResize(720,576)
In regards to the PAL/NTSC multi system TV's, DVD players etc., that is pretty much the norm here. Almost all modern TV's and DVD players sold here are equipped with this technology.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346
afterdawn.com > forums > digital video > convert dvd to another format > ntsc (23.976fps) to pal (25fps)... is it worth it?
 

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