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Help with improving video quality on MyDVD (adjusting bit rate?)
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spauld
Newbie
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9. January 2004 @ 08:38 |
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I noticed that my finished Movie Maker projects look great when I play them back in Microsoft Media Player, but when I move them over to the Sonic MyDVD program to actually burn them to a DVD+R, there is a noticable drop in the video quality when I play the finished disc. Reading the MyDVD help tutorial suggests that I can adjust the bit rate to improve video quality, but I can find no way to do that within the program. Anyone out there have any suggestions?? Much appreciated!!!
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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9. January 2004 @ 09:32 |
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Hiya spauld,
my experiences with MyDVD stopped at version 3.
But, from what I can ascertain, MyDVD takes the MPEG 2 file, demultiplexes it, transcodes the video, transcodes the audio, the re-combines the results into VOBs.
Every transcoding step has a detrimental effect on quality.
If your MPEG 2 files are already DVD Quality, I would suggest you try TMPGEnc DVD Author, as it mucks about with the files A LOT LESS.
Good rules-of-thumb:
The SOURCE should be the HIGHEST QUALITY you can get.
Only Transcode IF YOU HAVE TO.
Use the best quality specialist tools you can.
If you want suggestions as to good quality tools, let us know what sort of files you are using, then we can recommend some good ones.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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9. January 2004 @ 11:57 |
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Thanks! I appreciate the advice. I'm really just flying by the seat of my newbie pants here, but I guess I'm using AVI files as I saved my Movie Maker project to the DV-AVI setting (which movie makers suggested I do to get the highest quality). The files show up as Quicktime AVI files. Not sure what version of MyDVD came with my Dell, I'll check that out as well and let you know. I'll go in and read the info on the TMPGEnc product to see how all of that would work. Does it totally replace the MyDVD program or just take care of the encoding process between Movie Maker and MyDVD?? Thanks again!
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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9. January 2004 @ 13:22 |
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Hiya spauld,
I understand now - AVI files.
MyDVD is even worse with AVI files.
If Quality is important, you should be following this (or similar) route:
AVI -> TMPGEnc -> DVD-Compliant MPEG2.
you can do all the bit-rate adjusting in TMPGEnc to ensure Best Possible Quality commensurate with file size.
DVD-Compliant MPEG2 -> TMPGEnc DVD Author -> DVD Folder.
DVD Folder -> Burning Program -> DVD Disk.
This is obviously simplified, read the guides for TMPGEnc and TMPGEnc DVD Author.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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9. January 2004 @ 13:55 |
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O.K., I think I get what you're saying: I open my "finished" Project (AVI files) in the TMPGEnc. program, convert it all to DVD compliant MPEG 2 files, do any bit rate adjustment at that point, author the material, save it back to my hard disc, open it in the DVD burning program and burn the disc. Is this basically it in a nut shell? I guess the bottom line is that I need the TMPGEnc. software as a step between the editing program and the burning software eh?
Thanks again for all the guidance.
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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9. January 2004 @ 14:23 |
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Yep,Quote:
Is this basically it in a nut shell?
that is just about right.
It WON'T be quick, OK.
remember to read some Guides.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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ol645074
Newbie
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10. January 2004 @ 04:59 |
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save your files as a dvd file instead of AVI, saves lots of hassle and quality
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drchips
Senior Member
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10. January 2004 @ 05:23 |
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ol645074,
if I might point you to the following quote by spauldQuote:
but I guess I'm using AVI files as I saved my Movie Maker project to the DV-AVI setting (which movie makers suggested I do to get the highest quality).
which was good advice from MovieMaker.
Save your SOURCE in the HIGHEST QUALITY POSSIBLE, once detail is lost it can never be recovered.
Saving as a DVD file instead will LOSE quality, as you are reliant upon the encoding/compression tool built in to MovieMaker (that tool is not going to be as good or quality concious as TMPGEnc, THE PROGRAM as far as quality geeks are concerned).
OK, it save time your way, but at the expense of quality.
spauld,
let us know how you got on, Ok.
have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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12. January 2004 @ 05:24 |
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...this all sounds good. Just two more questions and I think I'll be off and running: 1) Do I need to buy BOTH TMPGEnc. programs (TMPG DVD Authoring 1.5 AND TMPG 2.5 ??) or should I just get the 2.5 version?
2) Where is the best place to buy this program?
Thanks again!! and I'll let you know how things turn out.
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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12. January 2004 @ 06:34 |
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Hiya spauld,
TMPGEnc 2.5 is the encoder, it will allow you to create DVD-Compliant MPEG2 files from most, if not all, types of file (AVI etc), quite often you only need to install codecs to support different types.
It is a very powerful program that allows you to make all sorts of changes and tweaks to get the best possible quality.
I rate it as the best around.
TMPGenc DVD Author 1.5 is the authoring program, it will ONLY accept DVD-Video and DVD-Compliant files as input.
It all depends if you need both.
If all you have is DVD-Compliant files of the correct size and quality, then you only need the authoring.
If you have ANY other kind of file you want to put onto DVD at the BEST POSSIBLE QUALITY, then you need TMPGEnc 2.5 as well.
They are both available as download trial (30 day trial).
The official supplier is at:
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/index.html
you can download the trials and buy from them as well.
Try them out first (they are powerful and can be complicated at times, but QUALITY COSTS, in time, money and effort).
There are a number of tips/tricks to getting it right, they can be learned for free, but you need the right tools for the job.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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12. January 2004 @ 09:54 |
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Dr chips,
O.K., guess I'm ready to go! Unfortunately I am unable to download the free trial, so I will end up just buying the TMPGEnc Plus boxed version I'm sure (only on-line here at my work computer!). I sent an email to Pegasys to see if they'd honor a refund if I'm not satisfied, but that's a long shot with software.
Again, Much thanks for the info. You've been a great help! I look forward to tinkering with the new program and I'll let you know what Pegasys tells me on the refund option and how it all works out.
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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12. January 2004 @ 10:08 |
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Hiya spauld,
you can't download at work? (I can understand them not allowing INSTALLING, but download?)
Do you have access to a CD burner at work?
Try sweet-talking someone in I.T. (IF your workplace HAS an I.T. Dept., that is) to download and burn for you.
A bit dodgy buying something WITHOUT trying it out first, I would be VERY SURPRISED if Pegasys agree to the refund option.
Get the trial versions somehow, nag someone else to download and burn if you have to.
Good Luck...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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20. January 2004 @ 10:12 |
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Well... Here is my latest update.
I just spent the better part of this past weekend working with my trial-download of the TMPGEnc. encoding software. (btw, that was GREAT advice to make sure I tried the free software before buying! Whew! It's fairly complicated with limited help/tutorial explanations. It may be a bit much for a newbie like me. I ended up making a very small 'test video' to work with (to speed up the process of encoding, burning, and finally...reviewing). I started keeping notes on what I did during each step of the process so that I could remember from one test to another.
The program seems to want to split my AVI files into two separate streams; a video stream with a .m2v extension, and an audio .wav file. I assume the m2v stands for MPEG-2 Video. If so, I guess I was successful. However, upon moving that into MyDVD and burning a test video (onto a rewritable DVD+R), the quality looks to be about the same as when I burn the original .AVI files to DVD. Each time I completed an encoding, I'd move it to MyDVD and burn a quick version. Then I'd sit down and compare each version with my 'control video'(which was the same 3 minute video burned directly from my .AVI files).
Am I doing something wrong? (rhetorical question I suppose, as I am sure that somewhere in the convoluted process I am doing SOMETHING wrong! LOL).
PS- during one of my 'tests', I chose a process that "removed noise" from the video. This process would supposedly lengthen the entire conversion process greatly, but was supposed to improve quality substantially. Each time I tried that, the program crashed when it got to the "50% complete" point.
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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20. January 2004 @ 11:16 |
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Hiya spauld,
YES, you are definately doing it wrong!!!!
I suspect you are running the Project Wizard, am I right?
Good move doing little test clips etc, shows you are thinking about the problem....
One IMPORTANT POINT....
MyDVD screws up on quality, better to use TMPGEnc DVD Author (as advised in my previous post).
Waiting to hear.
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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20. January 2004 @ 11:41 |
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drchips,
Yes... I am using the Project Wizard. Should I not be using that? After working through the wizard, the encoding window pops up as the final stage. As you know, you can get to this window first if you minimize the Project Wizard. As you can see.... I'm just trying to figure this out as I go along.
As far as my using the MyDVD program, I guess I thought once I converted my files from AVI to MPEG 2, I could burn the disc as I have been, using MyDVD. I did not know you could burn DVD's from the TMPGEnc. program. Thought that was ONLY for handling the file conversion. I downloaded the test version of TMPGEnc. plus 2.5.... does it have a DVD burning feature?
....I'll go home tonight and work with it some more.
Thanks!!!!
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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20. January 2004 @ 12:13 |
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It is best to run TMPGEnc 2.5 in its expert mode, as the Project Wizard does some odd things when you try to create NTSC DVD-Compliant files (I ASSUME you are choosing NTSC, ARE YOU??).
TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.5 has a burning function, maybe it supports your burner...
The basic sequence is:
AVI -> TMPGEnc 2.5 == DVD-Compliant MPEG-2
MPEG-2 files -> DVD Author == DVD Structure
DVD Structure -> Burning program == DVD
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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20. January 2004 @ 12:51 |
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drchips,
Yes, I am choosing DVD-NTSC. After going through the Project Wizard several times, I actually feel a certain amount of intimacy with it now..LOL I will go home tonight and look to see if I can identify the 'expert' mode you mention, and give it a go. I'm sure there is a box somewhere I did not check, or perhaps I am not choosing the "range" to encode properly (or something along those lines).
Guess I have not seen a way to author the DVD (DVD Author 1.5 must be a separate program I'd need to install)... I'll do a bit more investigating again tonight.
Thanks for all the advice! Sorry for the confusion, I do appreciate the help! I'm sure I'll get it figured out sooner rather than later.
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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20. January 2004 @ 13:06 |
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Hiya,
the expert mode is what you have left if you cancel the Wizard - you then have complete control over everything.
TMPGEnc DVD Author IS a seperate program, you can get it from the same place as TMPGEnc 2.5:
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/download/tda.html
Once again, a 30-day trial...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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21. January 2004 @ 06:12 |
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O.K., Made several short test-movies using the expert mode rather than the Project Wizard. Yes, MUCH easier and faster to use. Still no luck on burning a video as crisp as the original, so I took your advice and downloaded the DVD authoring 1.5 program. I'll try that tonight and see what happens. Oh, by the way, any recommendations on MPEG Settings? Seems when I try to encode via the 2-pass VBR setting combined with a High Quality (very slow) setting in the "precision search motion", the program crashes when it reaches "50% complete". An application error warning pops up and I have to close the program.
I've got 9 days left on my free 14 day trial period, so I've got my work cut out for me.
Thanks once again!
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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21. January 2004 @ 12:49 |
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Hiya,
The crashing at 50% when in VBR is one of two things:
1 - corrupt source file (AVI)
2 - fault in your system
the 50% point is where it starts encoding the movie for real.
Does it do it on ALL input files, try some other types (MPG, other AVI etc) and see if it crashes there - might be a dodgy download!!!
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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23. January 2004 @ 06:27 |
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DR Chips,
I finally got the DVD Author 1.5 to tinker with. I'm having the same problem another forum user is having. I'd like to ask him HOW he got the GOP structure problem resolved, but I guess he is in another sub-forum...and I know how AfterDawn discourages carrying on discussions in more than one forum. A warning box pops up whenever I try to get the MPEG files dropped into DVD Author. I went in and looked at the GOP structure in TMPGEnc/ MPEG settings/ GOP Structure ....tried just about everything, with the same results.
One more thing I noticed that you may be able to shed some light on. In the preview window of TMPGEnc., the incoming AVI files ALREADY appear degraded in quality, (even before I convert to MPEG). This from files that looked GREAT upon viewing in Windows Media Player just moments earlier. I'm thinking the problems I'm having with my finished "test Burns" might be doomed from the get-go. Any thoughts?
-Spauld
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drchips
Senior Member
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25. January 2004 @ 10:14 |
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Try setting the priority level to 2 for the DirectShow Multimedia File Reader:
In TMPGEnc 2.5:
Option -> Environmental Setting -> VFAPI Plugin
Right click on DirectShow Multimedia File Reader and select Higher Priority.
Repeat until priority is 2.
Then try a sample again to see if the degradation is still there.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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spauld
Newbie
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26. January 2004 @ 05:55 |
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O.K., great. I'll give that a shot. I figured it was some kind of setting problem, or a box that needs to be checked that isn't.
I finally figured out how to do everything from beginning to end (i.e. take my AVI files, convert them to MPEG-2, move into DVD Author and convert to VOB files, then open the VOB file in either Roxio or MyDVD (my only two DVD writing tools) and actually burn a DVD. (WHEW!)...now if I can just get the QUALITY up, I'd be all set, and would go ahead and buy these TMPGEnc. programs!!!
Oh, by the way, should I be creating two separate streams (ES- elementary streams, one for video and one for audio)?? Or is it o.k. to create one Video/Audio MPEG-2 file to convert to VOB???
I'll let you know how it turns out.
-Spauld
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nishikida
Newbie
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28. January 2004 @ 19:27 |
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spauld,
i just read through your whole thread & i went through the exact same sequence of events about 8 months ago. i finally got TMPGEnc to create a valid MPEG2 file but could never achieve the video quality that was close to my original DV tape. i tried all kinds of settings during the encoding process but in the end i gave up and am living w/ the quick authoring process in Sonic myDVD. i wish you better luck!
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drchips
Senior Member
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29. January 2004 @ 03:15 |
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Hiya spauld,
The preview in TMPGEnc 2.5 should show EXACTLY the same quality as Windows Media Player.
Encoding to seperate streams or combined in an MPEG should have little difference (I choose MPEG).
Do you have the following?
an AVI-splitter program?
a broadband connection?
A small sample of your AVI file for me to examine may be handy....
Have Fun...
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