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Does an Absolutely LOSSLESS decrypter program exist?
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 10:02 |
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Using DVD Shrink now. I notice a slight (~5%) loss of quality - no compression is being applied.
Picture is acceptable, but quality leaves only a substitute, not a replacement quality copy.
Do ANY programs available make exact copies?
iRon
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drchips
Senior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 10:21 |
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A couple of rippers (get film off DVD without quality loss), they also allow unwanted parts to be removed:
DVD Decrypter.
SmartRipper.
IFOEdit (allows removal of unwanted parts & lots more besides)
If, after all that, the film is still too big, it MUST be shrunk to fit on a single DVD.
If you MUST maintain the Original Quality, and the film is too big for a single DVD, then you can split it over 2 DVDs.
Be prepared for a fiddly process and much time if you want to get the Best Possible Quality.
Or, wait for DVD-9 Burners and Media to become available Real Soon Now(tm).
Byeeeee....
Life is just more of the same:
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 10:33 |
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How would I use dvd dicrypter differently than DVD Shrink? (instructions for dummies).
dvd decrypter is lossless and non-compressed DVD Shrink is a loss(y) copy?
thanks.
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Moderator
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1. March 2004 @ 11:16 |
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For Decrypter you just pop in your DVD, tell it where to save the files and let her rip. Decrypter simply removes the encryption which is why there is no quality loss.
Like the good doc said anything over 4,4GB must be compressed.
Here's a good guide for Decrypter:
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/small_dvd_2_dvdr.cfm
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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drchips
Senior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 11:18 |
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Ah!
Instructions for Dummies - that's the problem.
It is an involved and sometimes complicated process.
Basically, a ripper (DVD Decrypter for example) will ONLY rip from DVD to Hard-Drive (they do more, but for the purpose here, take it as written).
If the film is 7 Gig on the original DVD, it will be 7 Gig on your hard drive (minus the CSS/Macrovision etc).
There are quite a few things that can be removed from that 7 Gig, eg:
1 - all audio tracks other than the main audio (sometimes there can be 6 or more other audio tracks)
2 - all subtitles other than the main subtitles (doesn't save much, subtitles take up little space)
3 - start credits (studio ads etc)
4 - end credits (can save a few meg)
5 - multi-angle views (rare, but sometimes seen)
These savings can all add up to over 1 Gig on a 7 Gig rip, so noticably reducing the compression needed.
Often, just removing extraneous material can drop total size low enough that compression is not needed - which means Original Quality.
Every film is different, you will need a strong investigative instinct and lots of time.
If that is the route you want to take, be aware it takes a lot of learning and it will be frustrating at times.
If the time it takes is important, give up now and be happy with Shrink.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. March 2004 @ 11:20
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 11:45 |
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O.K.
If I use DVD Shrink, "reauthor" function so as to NOT compress, I have a ~5% loss. Does DVD Decrypt make exact copies and Shrink doesn't (even without compression employed)?
What does decrypt do differently for movies without causing degredation of quality that shrink misses?
Sorry for my slowness in understanding.
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drchips
Senior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 12:43 |
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Do yourself a favour, and lose your preconceptions, otherwise you just make it more difficult for yourself later (assuming you want to get best possible quality).
DVD copying basically consists of 5 steps:
1 - ripping to hard-drive (copying from original and removing protection)
2 - editing (removal of extraneous material / unwanted stuff)
3 - authoring (putting the result into a DVD structure)
4 - compressing (so it will fit on a DVD-R)
5 - burning (putting it onto disk).
There are programs for each step, each program is a Master at its trade.
There are also programs like Shrink that will perform many of the functions, a Jack-of-all-trades and Master of none.
DVD Decrypter can make exact copies IN SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES.
DVD Decrypter is a MASTER at ripping.
Byeee...
Life is just more of the same:
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gmc
Newbie
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1. March 2004 @ 12:52 |
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meiron:
You must have the eyes of Superman or a very outdated Dvd player or cheap one. I have backed up over 50 movies with Shrink and I can't see any flaws at all of course I am not looking for any either maybe that is the idea.
Your not an engineer by any chance are ya!
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pcshateme
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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1. March 2004 @ 13:23 |
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i notice NO visual quality loss when i only copy the movie with no subs and english only (even on zoom(- but when i copy the ENTIRE DVD everything- it is noticable. It also depends on the length of the movie-a long movie (LOTR-186 min- or animes(full series) wich have about 4 hours per disc) will have a lower bitrate to start and will look even poorer when compressed. But most movies are around an hour and 45 minutes and have a VERY HIGH bitrate- so high that even when they are compressed almost half there size they still look great.
if you are looking for BEST POSSIBLE quality- use shrink to cut extras, audios, subs, and credits with the start / end frame feature. Then turn on DEEP ANALYSIS.
unless the movie itself is under 4.4 GB or you get a DVD-9 Burner (not yet available) you will not be able to make a TRUELY loosless copy- but you can come unnoticably close.
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 13:44 |
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Actually, I'm using a New Sony 999es dvd player - best in the price range ($740 from authorize dealer). My tv is a toshiba 71 inches HDTV (in '99 they came without Progressive scan or DVI imputs).
My trifocals focus well, but at 71 inches all imperfections are Magnified.
The flaws are slight, but noticable, with a loss of depth and color and less vibrant, like viewing through a filter.
No, I'm not an engineer (I don't like trains).
iRon
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gmc
Newbie
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1. March 2004 @ 14:03 |
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Man, with all that high quality tech. stuff you might want to be there while there making the movie with your digital camera then go back home and play it. That might be your only hope, I am surprised that an original don't have flaws with all that high dollar tech. stuff.
I meant engineer as in design engineering.
Win XP Pro SP1
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Creative Sound
Allied 400w PS,
HP CD/RW
Sony DRU-530A DVD-RW
19" ViewSonic
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. March 2004 @ 14:06
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drchips
Senior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 14:25 |
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Meiron:
With the type of display system you have, any artifacts that are part of the DVD standard (there are artifacts) will be magnified.
I understand now why you can see a difference when a movie is compressed.
You basically have 5 options:
1 - give up the backup route and only use Originals
2 - backup onto two disks per film (a hassle)
3 - wait for DVD-9 burners and media (or blu-ray etc), basically any LARGE capacity solution
4 - build a high-spec HTPC unit.
5 - Buy a DVD changer unit (300 disk units available from Sony for $400 approx)
If choosing option 4, ATI have just released or are about to release an HDTV card:
http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/ati_hdtv_wonder.shtml
If you had one of those, in an HTPC designed for quietness that is linked via ethernet to a storage server elsewhere on your property, you could play DVDs at FULL quality over the network.
The drawbacks are:
1 - DVDs uncompressed EAT hard-drive storage - each film averages 5.5 Gig, a TeraByte Raid5 would store approx 180 films uncompressed.
2 - Hard-drives do fail (eventually), hence the Raid5
3 - A TeraByte of disk storage IS NOT CHEAP
4 - The systems would have to be built (storage machine is easy)
5 - ethernet wiring
6 - electricity (2 extra machines running)
The benefits are:
1 - full quality backup and playback
2 - Video on Demand (access is almost instantaneous), response time quicker than inserting a DVD into a player
3 - You don't have to leave your chair, use the remote.
4 - Bragging rights!!!
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. March 2004 @ 14:26
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pcshateme
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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1. March 2004 @ 14:32 |
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if anyone has that much money they might as well just by 2 copies of there movies
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gmc
Newbie
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1. March 2004 @ 14:48 |
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Ditto! he! he!
Win XP Pro SP1
Win 2000 Pro SP4
SOYO SY-P41 845PE
P4 2.4B (C1-Stepping) Boxed
Seagate 10.5 Gig 7200 IDE 7.6seek
1024 meg/333 DDR Kingston (CL2.5)
PNY GeForce4 128 DDR
Creative Sound
Allied 400w PS,
HP CD/RW
Sony DRU-530A DVD-RW
19" ViewSonic
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 18:17 |
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With DVD Shrink, if a movie is NOT compressed, should there be any more loss than when using dvd decrypt?
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pbailey
Member
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1. March 2004 @ 19:38 |
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I thought if a movie wasn't being compressed with DVD Shrink there was no quality loss, as it's just ripping the structure as is... but maybe not.
Every dvd movie has compression to begin with, the one that stands out for me is the up in smoke tour, that gets pretty pixelated in places (original).
Why does having a bigger CRT screen (excluding any projectors, lcd, plasma etc) affect the quality of the picture? Wouldn't a bigger tv just mean more pixels, or does it only affect cheaper crts, ie bigger pixels or something? Just always wondered cheers.
Bailey
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meiron
Junior Member
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1. March 2004 @ 19:59 |
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Bigger sets (of the same resolution) have the same pixel count, but magnify the images. Any imperfections are also magnified and therefore more apparent.
My goal is to have a copy of equal quality to the original, even if I need 2 disks for each movie. Still cheaper than having to rebuy the same movie every time my kids (and sometimes my wife) mishandle the movie.
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pcshateme
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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2. March 2004 @ 09:46 |
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i dont have a big screen (my largest is a 36 inch but good enough for me) but my cousin has a 76 inch andwhen i visit- his tv programs appear pixillated like SVCDs- so i think the pixels are bigger.
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meiron
Junior Member
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2. March 2004 @ 10:02 |
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Yes the larger screen has larger pixels compared to the same resolution, smaller screens.
When viewed at the proper minimum distance, no pixelation should be visable. This allows you to be further away from the pictures.
The bigger the picture and the better sound, the more INVOLVING the viewing experience. (Also, the less money left over to rent/buy movies).
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fibertag
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2. March 2004 @ 16:17 |
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Well I have a very simple solution for the wife and kids problem. Any time my wife or kids handle a dvd in an inapropriate way, I run to the closet get my handy floging device and BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THEME!! That solved my problem! :-P
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pbailey
Member
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3. March 2004 @ 13:20 |
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Glad i'm not one of your kids.
Bailey
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pcshateme
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. March 2004 @ 13:30 |
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well i just punch my idiot friends in the face!
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fibertag
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. March 2004 @ 14:45 |
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KUMBI YA My Lord KUMBI YA LOL
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radiofree
Junior Member
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4. March 2004 @ 06:08 |
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pbailey,
I remember ddlooping say one time that DVD Shrink doesn't lose anything if the movie doesn't need to be compressed - color, quality, everything remains intact. The algorithim is pretty good and all but the most professional equipment, as noted above, would be unable to really tell the difference on a slightly compressed movie.
It's like a man once said - there are no problems, only solutions.
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pbailey
Member
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4. March 2004 @ 18:12 |
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LOL @ fibertag ;p
That's pretty funny radiofree, it was ddlooping that told me that too, he's pretty busy, eh? lol.
I agree, but as you stated in the end of your post, The algorithim is pretty good and all but the most professional equipment, as noted above, would be unable to really tell the difference on a slightly compressed movie.
That's a slightly compressed movie, what about not compressed at all. I think you have to draw the line tho, something that high tech would surely be showing up the normal compression on a dvd aswell???
i figured the non-compressed method by DVD Shrink was just like grabbing a file off a cd and copying to your hdd, no need to mess with the data, but i guess DVD Shrink is cutting bits out...
I dunno.
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