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Image Creating and Burning
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 04:26 |
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At present I have 2 removable drives, my writer is LG, and my DVD rom is samsung, and normally if I want to copy a disc I place the CD in the rom drive and copy on the fly, but as the dvd rom is getting a bit old I have noticed that when I copy using on-the-fly the audio can be hard to have some ticks during playback, but when I use the other method of burning by placing the source disc in the writer drive, create the image, then place a CD-R in the writer and burn the image the audio has no problems during playback, would these errors be because I may have an issue with the rom drive, and that burning an image would be the better option.
By the way, I use the slowest speed my writer gives which is 16 speed, and I use good quality brand CD-R such as Verbatim, I wonder if it's possible to tell my writer to use 8 speed, but I don't get that option as 16 speed is the slowest that comes up on the drop down menu.
I was thinking of removing the DVD rom drive, and just use the one drive for reading and writing, but I have been told that I could easily have 2 internal writers on my system, but I am confused as to how would I let Nero know which one is the source for reading and which one is the source for writing being that they may be the same brand of writer.
I would actually prefer to remove the older rom drive completely, but I don't have a spare bezel cover to block the space where the rom drive took up.
Thoughts please on all of this.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2010 @ 04:29
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2010 @ 09:38 |
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That is not how it is normally done. DVDs and CDs are usually protected against that. You can rip to lossless then burn to a disk. Your software determines the lowest speed not your burner. Nero errs on too fast than too slow so I hate it. I prefer to have the ability to try burning slower because often that works better. I suspect at least one is actually not a ROM drive but a burner.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 09:59 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
That is not how it is normally done. DVDs and CDs are usually protected against that. You can rip to lossless then burn to a disk. Your software determines the lowest speed not your burner. Nero errs on too fast than too slow so I hate it. I prefer to have the ability to try burning slower because often that works better. I suspect at least one is actually not a ROM drive but a burner.
I disagree slightly when you say that is not normally how it's done, creating an image then burning that image is still copying it digitally, the only difference is the burner isn't reading the data directly from the source CD, which surely burning the image is a safer way of copying a disc.
What I do agree with you about is when you say about Nero being too fast, unfortunately when I am copying using Nero I see 4 speed options prior to clicking on the Burn button, and the slowest speed out of that 4 is x16, do you know of a way of changing that or adding a x8 speed option to that drop down prior to burning?
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Mez
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7. September 2010 @ 10:33 |
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I bet more than 95% of all burned audio disks for personal use were not created imaging the CD. That is 'normal' enough for me. You can say what you want but there is at least one forum devoted to just ripping and burning video DVDs and a fair amount of this forum is devoted to ripping and burning of audio CDs. Why do you think everyone does that? Do you really think you are the one of the only smart persons in the world and just ran into a bit of bad luck because your method doesn't work?
I bet you have more options till you put in your blank. It is then that Nero computes what your burn speeds will be.
Use better software. Imgburn is what I use to create and burn images. It is shareware. There are several other great shareware burning apps all far better than the paid for apps. Imgburn will allow you to burn at 1x if you with to. Burning too slow will also ruin a disk. That is much harder to do with audio disks because the tracks are much thicker.
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7. September 2010 @ 10:42 |
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IMO, burning on-the-fly is just inviting errors..There are buffers involved..
I always rip/copy to HDD first then burn later..As stated by our friend Mez, there are other burning apps(some better than Ner0)IMO..
Burrrn, BurnAware free, CDBurnerXP, just to name a few..And of course the mighty mighty giant ImgBurn..
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 11:05 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
IMO, burning on-the-fly is just inviting errors..There are buffers involved..
I always rip/copy to HDD first then burn later..As stated by our friend Mez, there are other burning apps(some better than Ner0)IMO..
Burrrn, BurnAware free, CDBurnerXP, just to name a few..And of course the mighty mighty giant ImgBurn..
I have burrrn, but all that does is burn as it's title suggests, it certainly doesn't support ripping audio CD's.
Mez,
Whether it's creating an image of a disc or ripping a disc to burn later, it all amounts to the same thing, and as k00ka has just said he prefers to rip or copy to the hard drive first which is what I was saying earlier.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2010 @ 11:15 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
And of course the mighty mighty giant ImgBurn..
Now you you wouldn't be making fun...
I do not recommend anything I haven't used and thought it was better than the rest of the pack for something. With something a straight forward as burning a disk I really don't have the desire to play with 6 or more just like I don't seek out and find new floppy disk formatters. If one works great, that is enough for me. I burn far more DVD videos than audio CDs. The video community considers imgburn to be superior. It is easy to burn a coaster making DVDs. I probably make two coasters a month on average over the last 9-10 yrs. I have never burned a CD coaster. I figure DVD videos are the real test. If it burns better in a demanding situation it likely burns the best in every situation.
For those just tuning in, k00ka may feel I am a broken record only recommending imgburn for many years. If I used cue files I would check out Burrrn but I don't.
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7. September 2010 @ 11:26 |
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Not makin fun of you at all my friend!..I really do mean the mighty Imgburn..FWIW, I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD coaster using Imgburn..My only choice for DVD flick backups..And I also burn way more DVD videos than Audio CDs..
It's just that I'm partial to using the simple burrrn for Audio CDs is all..
Whatever works..
OP wrote,
Quote:
I have burrrn, but all that does is burn as it's title suggests, it certainly doesn't support ripping audio CD's.
I did'nt suggest burrrn did anything but burn..As I stated above, I rip/copy to HDD first..I use EAC or dBpoweramp for ripping Audio CD's..
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2010 @ 11:32
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 11:32 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
Not makin fun of you at all my friend!..I really do mean the mighty Imgburn..FWIW, I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD coaster using Imgburn..My only choice for DVD flick backups..And I also burn way more DVD videos than Audio CDs..
It's just that I'm partial to using the simple burrrn for Audio CDs is all..
Whatever works..
So am I right in that when you say you use Burrrn for audio CD's what exactly do you mean? I ask because all burrrn does is burn files to discs as it certainly doesn't rip any.
Finally, I never know why people call those ruined discs coasters, I say this because CD's have a hole in the centre, and you certainly would not want to place a cup of coffee or tea on that, now would you, lol.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 11:37 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
Not makin fun of you at all my friend!..I really do mean the mighty Imgburn..FWIW, I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD coaster using Imgburn..My only choice for DVD flick backups..And I also burn way more DVD videos than Audio CDs..
It's just that I'm partial to using the simple burrrn for Audio CDs is all..
Whatever works..
OP wrote,
Quote:
I rip/copy to HDD first..I use EAC or dBpoweramp for ripping Audio CD's..
Which is similar to creating an image which all leads to the same thing, so like I say there are more people now doing it this way rather than using the error on-the-fly method.
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7. September 2010 @ 11:39 |
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I've yet to have a cup of coffee or tea fall through a disc coaster's hole..
Feel free to call it whatever you prefer..How about freesbie?
As for Audio CD's, I mean I prefer burning an Audio CD with burrrn..That does not imply that I never use anything else..B/C I have many tools at my disposal, and I'll use whatever works best for me..
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2010 @ 11:51 |
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I am disappointed k00ka did not make the case about superior rippers being very superior reading the CD. Imaging software like Nero is not careful enough for an exact copy. It is less careful reading than burning. Optical reads are not all that reliable. There is a complete industry created to reliably read a CD for picky listeners. A primitive but effective way is to read a sector many times comparing each read to the others. If they are all the same that read is good. Otherwise, it reads the sector even more until it is confident it has a correct read or will note the track is suspect. Another method is Accurip. You can Google that. EAC and dbPowerAmp both use secure scan and Accurip. I would never use any ripper except for those 2.
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7. September 2010 @ 12:08 |
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Quote:
I am disappointed k00ka did not make the case about superior rippers being very superior reading the CD
I thought by mentioning my preferred ripping tools(EAC and or dBpoweramp, was clear enough..But guess I was wrong(silly me)..Of course they're "superior"..By far!!
Cheers!
http://www.accuraterip.com/
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2010 @ 12:10
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labtec99
Junior Member
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7. September 2010 @ 12:29 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
I've yet to have a cup of coffee or tea fall through a disc coaster's hole..
Feel free to call it whatever you prefer..How about freesbie?
As for Audio CD's, I mean I prefer burning an Audio CD with burrrn..That does not imply that I never use anything else..B/C I have many tools at my disposal, and I'll use whatever works best for me..
If some coffee or tea drips down the cup it will eventually fall into the hole, which isn't the purpose of a coaster is it, I wasn't saying the cup itself could fall into the hole, lol
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2010 @ 14:34 |
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Originally posted by k00ka:
Quote:
I am disappointed k00ka did not make the case about superior rippers being very superior reading the CD
I thought by mentioning my preferred ripping tools(EAC and or dBpoweramp, was clear enough..But guess I was wrong(silly me)..Of course they're "superior"..By far!!
Cheers!
http://www.accuraterip.com/
Oh, you are clean my friend. I started writing the thread long before you mentioned the rippers. I would have worded my post a bit differently if I saw the other post. Yes, I also know you know why you are using them. You are at least as knowledgeable as I. You hadn't had your coffee either. I had mine hours ago. I don't want to sound like this is kick k00ka day because it is not. I am definitely more of a Nazi than you in that there are proper ways to do things and I strongly advise to follow the program.
Because you achieve superior results consistently all but a few persons rip the CDs then burn them. It is extra work but you can expect the best results.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 14:41 |
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Not sure if I have a faulty writer or not, but I had another error even when copying an image that had been created successfully by Nero.
I used the same source drive to create and burn the image as an audio CD, however there was a noticeable glitch during one of the tracks during playback, the image was burned at the lowest speed for the writer which is x16.
I have since tried to perform transfer rate speeds using the Nero speed tool, and I get the following errors, even when performing a transfer rate speed test
I/O PROCESS TERMINATED {0B0006}
Also on the receipt it shows the model number as LG GH22NP20RBBB, and when I look this up all I see it related to is foreign sites, would this be because I have been sold an item that has been brought in from a foreign country?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. September 2010 @ 14:42
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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9. September 2010 @ 17:00 |
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You probably have a batch of marginal blanks. The quality of the image, the quality of the blank, the quality of the burn hardware and the quality of the burner software all play a roll in the quality of the final product. Nero is considered to be marginal in reading and writing but far from the worst for making images and burning. 2 of your quality factors are running against you.
Hopefully, it is foreign unless you like in Japan. Japan is the only country to make first quality blanks is Japan and 2 other Asian countries are added to Japan for make seconds and the rest are thirds, not fit to be used but make up the bulk of the market. I am sure yous fit into the last category. China only make third class blanks.
I figure maybe with a few more days with Nero speed tools you will lick this problem! Probably if you hum your national anthem while burning that will improve the quality.
Good luck!
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 17:24 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
You probably have a batch of marginal blanks. The quality of the image, the quality of the blank, the quality of the burn hardware and the quality of the burner software all play a roll in the quality of the final product. Nero is considered to be marginal in reading and writing but far from the worst for making images and burning. 2 of your quality factors are running against you.
Hopefully, it is foreign unless you like in Japan. Japan is the only country to make first quality blanks is Japan and 2 other Asian countries are added to Japan for make seconds and the rest are thirds, not fit to be used but make up the bulk of the market. I am sure yous fit into the last category. China only make third class blanks.
I figure maybe with a few more days with Nero speed tools you will lick this problem! Probably if you hum your national anthem while burning that will improve the quality.
Good luck!
The thing is I see no way to reduce the speed of the image being created, and I see no way to reduce the burn speed to less than x16.
You mention quality of blanks, are you referring to the CD-R media? if you are then I use the best in Verbatim, they are renowned to be the best quality for burning discs.
I have been burned for as long as I care to remember, and I use the best media, and have never come across this problem until now, and by the way, the disc that is being used to test the transfer speed isn't a CD-R, it's an official disc, so I wouldn't have thought it was the source disc that is causing the problems.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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9. September 2010 @ 17:51 |
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I concur, all Verbatims are first class. That is all I use. Sony make 1sts and 2nds. There is another company that is at least as good as Verbatim but must be purchased on the internet so I do not. Once or twice a year they are sold very cheap at Best Buy. I buy my years supply then. Fugi make seconds and the rest make thirds. Still, maybe these blanks are near the bottom quality for Verbatim. Still even those are great blanks.
Nero is marginal because it reads a bit sloppy compared with the best readers. It figures out your burn speeds for you. The factors are the burn speed of the media and the burn speed of the drive.
Just for grins, if you are trying to burn audio, down load the 30 month trial for dbPowerAmp. It is stupidly easy to use and is probably the best ripper in the world. Edging out EAC by a hair. Burn to flac files then burn with burrrn. I don't use burrrn but I hear it is a good audio burner. I burn with Media Monkey or a burner I got from dbPowerAmp I use for archive backups. Media Monkey is great and easy to use but I do not completely trust it for perfection although they will be using Accurip in their next version so maybe I should trust it. Burning is much easier than reading.
If that doesn't work I eat my hat if I had one.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 18:08 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
I concur, all Verbatims are first class. That is all I use. Sony make 1sts and 2nds. There is another company that is at least as good as Verbatim but must be purchased on the internet so I do not. Once or twice a year they are sold very cheap at Best Buy. I buy my years supply then. Fugi make seconds and the rest make thirds. Still, maybe these blanks are near the bottom quality for Verbatim. Still even those are great blanks.
Nero is marginal because it reads a bit sloppy compared with the best readers. It figures out your burn speeds for you. The factors are the burn speed of the media and the burn speed of the drive.
Just for grins, if you are trying to burn audio, down load the 30 month trial for dbPowerAmp. It is stupidly easy to use and is probably the best ripper in the world. Edging out EAC by a hair. Burn to flac files then burn with burrrn. I don't use burrrn but I hear it is a good audio burner. I burn with Media Monkey or a burner I got from dbPowerAmp I use for archive backups. Media Monkey is great and easy to use but I do not completely trust it for perfection although they will be using Accurip in their next version so maybe I should trust it. Burning is much easier than reading.
If that doesn't work I eat my hat if I had one.
I shall try that, however that doesn't answer the question as to why I am unable to perform a successful transfer speed test whereas I could previously with my older burner. Would that not indicate that there is indeed a fault with the writer?
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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9. September 2010 @ 18:25 |
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I would think so. I was too fixed on Nero to see past that. It would be a good guess your new burner is not very good.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 19:13 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
I would think so. I was too fixed on Nero to see past that. It would be a good guess your new burner is not very good.
I have performed the test you mentioned by using dBpoweramp to convert to flac, then use Burrrn to burn an Audio CD, I haven't had time to listen to it in full as it's an hour long compilation, but I will give it a complete listen on Friday, and I will let you know.
Regarding the burner, if it hadn't been for the failed speed tests I may well have just performed ripped burns from CD like mentioned here, but I think I will take the burner back tomorrow and see if they will exchange it for me.
Performing the burn like this takes longer, but if I am guaranteed an error free burn then it's worth it.
Thankfully my copy of dBpoweramp is unlimited, and if it does error free burns then I would use it more often rather than mediamonkey, although I do use MediaMonkey for mp3 files.
Regarding the speeds on my writer, I tried going for the 8 speed on the Burrrn program, but it still copied it at x16, so I think the burners lowest possible speed is x16.
When we think about it, I suppose Nero does the same thing when it's asked to copy a disc, it's just that we don't see it working internally, I mean in relation to converting.
By the way, did you know that when burning flac files using Burrrn that it needs to decode the Flac files first to Wave before it starts to burn, and it's the Wave files that it,s burning, so in essence the music is being converted twice prior to being burned, some may say the more music is converted the more chance of sound quality loss, although I would very much need to see proof on that.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. September 2010 @ 19:19
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Mez
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9. September 2010 @ 20:06 |
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You will not be able to hear any problems. I will guarantee that. You can even burn from HiFi mp3s and not hear any difference. The human ear is not very good. If you want a chuckle read the audio myths in the top sticky of this forum.
You can rip to wave files if you intend to delete them right after. You are correct in that the flacs will be converted but so will the waves. CDs have their own lossless format. By not using an earlier format the later technology did not have to pay royalties. I am sure making their own was much cheaper. Lossless to a different lossless format is always perfect. It is when you convert lossy information to any other format that things start to blur. It really takes many conversions with HiFi lossy but LoFi lossy goes down hill rapidly.
Reading from magnetic media is fast and reliable. It is reading from an optical disk that is a problem. The disks are pressed in such a way it makes them hard to read. You can check the damaged disk sticky for that info. So if you are ripping with dbpoweramp it will either be perfect or it will let you know that it was not. Since you got no errors it is perfect. Because the music was never compressed you should not have any artifacts. I have never seen a complaint about dbpoweramp introducing any artifact on its own. That is not true of all high quality converters. When they are working right there are no artifacts.
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 20:24 |
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Yeah, but it's not so much the ripping but the actual writing to the CD-R that I believe to be the problem as in this case.
The original image that I created a couple of days ago, when I burnt the CD for it I assumed it was error free as I hadn't played it in full, and I then deleted the image, but if I had known there was a sound error glitch I would have burned the same image to a new CD-R media, and if that was error free then it would prove without doubt that the problem is the writer only
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labtec99
Junior Member
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9. September 2010 @ 21:20 |
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Please don't forget though that I only have version 10 of dBPowerAMP, therefore no matter how much I attempt to activate the accurate rip function it just will not activate, so do you think that will be a problem for me?
I wish someone could send me a copy of the up to date version dBpoweramp Music Converter R13.5, as it covers most systems including mine which is windows 98.
http://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper.htm
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