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Nvidia vs ATI
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JSRife
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19. June 2004 @ 11:33 |
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The way everyone makes it sound is. Their are maybe 4-5 different Video cards that are worthy and the rest suck and won't run a game worth a crap(Newer game). That is crap, any card that won't run newer games is a Video card they took off the shelves a long time ago, unless you got a really old computer and just wanna fool yourself, then you can special order something crappy off the net. I go into best buy alot, and I bet every single Video card they carry at this present time, is a good video card. Sure you can always spend more and get much better. You can buy a Dodge Neon or you can buy a Lexus, but both are going to do the same basic thing, get you to where you are going, just like a Video card from now, both are going to run the game just fine. It doesn't say on the back of the box (The game) you will need at least an ATI 9600PRO or Nvidia 5700 to play this game. It will say you need at least 64mb Video card recommended or 32mb Min. That's it.
Jason Rife
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19. June 2004 @ 12:10 |
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Keep in mind that the manufacturers are very generous with their minimum requirements. Do you always believe manufacturer's claims with any product?
Sure you can run the any given game with the minimum requirements but you're going to have to compromise image quality and speed ina huge way to do so.
What I and Praetor are talking about and what you are talking about are two very different things.
We are discussing cards with enough horsepower to run ther newer games at a decent framerate with respecable visual quality.
What you are talking about is simply getting games to run.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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JSRife
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19. June 2004 @ 15:48 |
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The thing I don't like about it is. I mean a top performer video card is costing you some bucks. An ATI 9800Pro 128mb is costing around $249.00 maybe you can get it cheaper, thats the price I saw at Circuit City a few days ago. Priced a Nvidia 5950 Ultra, can't remember the memory 256? but anyway that bad boy is costing around $400 I believe. Don't know what the ATI 9800Pro 256mb is going for?? they are always sold out on the shelves at Best Buy. I just think some of these cards are a little pricey for just playing video games. I don't see how People blow that much loot on a Video card, I mean they are hella nice don't get me wrong, that ATI 9800 Pro is sweet, just looking at it, im like wow, you can tell that's a good card. It's impressive. I guess I'm just to cheap to pick one up, if I was phat money I would buy one. Now that PNY Gforce 6800 Ultra, now that is looking like a great card, would be kicking the ATI Pro's @ss all day. I'm picking up a cheapo video card, I just need a good enough card to run Diablo 2. Right now with intergrated Video it plays pretty decent. With a cheapo video card I should be looking pretty good. Had my mind on an ATI 9200 128mb, and call it a day.
Jason Rife
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Praetor
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19. June 2004 @ 17:07 |
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I have heard that the SE versions of ATi are shit, sapphire are the shitest of all makes (that use ATI chips)
Yes and no. The SE versions of ATi cards fill the sub-budget role superbly (the R9200 and G5200 are just budget boards). The SE offers, argueably, more performance per buck than its budget-based big brothers. Naturally, people who are interested in budget and subbudget cards are not out to play UT2004/FarCry (or if so, not at high framerates, or even that withstanding, dont complain when it lags out).
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I just think some of these cards are a little pricey for just playing video games
EXACTLY. It's for richass people who just wanna brag and show off to the rest of the world that they are all leet. Course there are those who buy it because of other reasons and dont go around getting into pissing contests -- not enough unfortunately.
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ok then you want proof. I got given a an ATI Rage 128 Pro 16MB from someone and a an Nvidia MX440 32MB and the ATI rocks the NVIADIA one is slow and jogs alot on JK2 did the same thing but used the ATI one and there was a little jogging but it was surtainly better than NVIDIA card. you wanted proof so you got it
Fiesty now. So you are essentially saying every single ATI card is better than every single nVidia card based on a comparison of a top-end four generation old card with a bottom end three generation old budget card. There's class for ya. How about this 'proof': the nVidia 6800 beats the ATI Mach32 ... does that now mean nVidia is the best ever? Hardly. I'm not here to start a war or a pissing contest -- merely to state that one cant fairly and objectively say ATI or nVidia completely and utterly better than the other.
Like I said before, you cant compare between generations and classes of video cards -- certainly not if you are going to make broad statements like ATI is the best period or nVidia is the best period. Well... of course you can do that, but there's not logic and structure to that line of thinking ... hence my comment earlier about unsubstantiated (or insignificantly so) claims.
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so in theory actual performance spec's between the same model ATI-label vs. Sapphire-label should be insignificant or traced to lower-spec memory.
Indeed there is a very insignificant drop in performance between the Sapphire and stock models. I only mentioned THG's review because of the noteable bias chosen by comparing the 6800 to a Sapphire model card.
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I have used many Sapphire boards, never had prob.
Likewise actually (hehe, me... with an ATI based card -- shhhhhhhhhhh!) ... the only thing I've noticed is that the OCing headroom is noticeably less.
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Don't know what the ATI 9800Pro 256mb is going for??
Dont think they make one(?)
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Had my mind on an ATI 9200 128mb, and call it a day.
Not entirely sure here but wouldnt the 9600SE (which is $10 cheaper, at least here in Canada), be a better choice?
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What I and Praetor are talking about and what you are talking about are two very different things.
We are discussing cards with enough horsepower to run ther newer games at a decent framerate with respecable visual quality.
What you are talking about is simply getting games to run.
Aye indeed.
JSRife
In reference to the Quadro (and ATI's equivalent, i believe its called the FireGL?), those workstation cards have a lot of processing power and usually come with a crapload of memory and memory expansion capabilities and such. This of course comes at quite a cost to gaming however: the drivers and engines for those workstation cards are designed purely for pixel precision (i.e., in a CAD environment, a pixel or two can mean that a window is no longer connected to the wall) etc. Furthermore, DirectX support for them is spotty at best and if one does manage to get it to work for mainstream games, enough of that horsepower is delegated to running the card in DirectX-compatibility mode.
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AxelFoley
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19. June 2004 @ 19:17 |
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ATI pwnz all with the x800...dont get me wrong that nVidia makes ok cards but the realistic picture quality is out of the ATI.
PC:
AMD XP 2500+ (Over Clocked to 3200+)
Gigabyte n400Pro2
ATI 9800 Pro (with Zalman VGA Cooler)
Audigy 2 ZS
1GB Corsair XMS
760 GB Storage
80 Seagate
180 Western Digital
2x 250 Maxtor
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Praetor
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19. June 2004 @ 20:11 |
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1. Dont bring that stupid leet crap here.
2. If you can honestly say that nVidia's cards are that much far behind ATi's then you are either very full of yourself, not very knowledgeable or you only play turn based games. When framerates exceed 70+ fps, you can't tell whether a picture is "better" or not simply because the human mind doesnt have that kind of perceptual sensitivity.
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AxelFoley
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19. June 2004 @ 23:15 |
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yeah...ok this is rediculous
PC:
AMD XP 2500+ (Over Clocked to 3200+)
Gigabyte n400Pro2
ATI 9800 Pro (with Zalman VGA Cooler)
Audigy 2 ZS
1GB Corsair XMS
760 GB Storage
80 Seagate
180 Western Digital
2x 250 Maxtor
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JSRife
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20. June 2004 @ 04:57 |
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I agree with the comment Praetor said about Nvidia and ATI both making great cards. ATI comes out with a great card better than Nvidia, then 2 months later Nvidia makes a card to match it or surpass it and so on, it keeps going back and forth. Kinda like Pentium and AMD, one makes the better faster processor and then the other company tops it and so on. Nvidia now has the 6800 and ATI has something called the XL800, 400 and 300 or something like that. Don't know which card is better between the two, which ever card is the better one, the other company will make one even better soon enough and so on again and again. I will say one thing about ATI over Nvidia, I hear a whole hell of a lot more hype about the ATI cards when they first come out than most Nvidia cards. I think it's the fancy box the ATI card comes in, kinda gets into Peoples heads a little. HA HA... I went to ATI's website and their new generation cards are all out of stock, I believe you can get the NVidia 6800 chip on their website now. Doesn't really matter, just curious which card is better Nvidias latest greatest card or ATI's Best right now?
Jason Rife
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Praetor
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20. June 2004 @ 07:31 |
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just curious which card is better Nvidias latest greatest card or ATI's Best right now?
To be honest, it actually damn near a tie depending on what you look at.
'Traditionally' nVidia has gone after brute speed (very much like Intel) while ATi has gone after efficiency and AA/ansio quality. I honestly think ATi still holds the crown for AA/Ansio quality (see http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/85366 for a little rant on that). Of course the quality of AA/Ansio doesnt really matter when you are playing games in exceess of 60fps but its a point nontheless.
As far as "standard high resolutions" go (1280x1024, 1600x1200) and naturally the lower resolutions, ATi and nVidia are evenly matched in a 'tit-for-tat' kinda manner. It does seem however at the even higher resolutions, (1900x1600, 2048x1536 etc), with all the quality settings ramped up, the nVidia card pulls off more framerates than the ATi card (not in all cases but it seems the nVidia one pulls ahead more often). I would attribute this to the sheer bandwidth available to the card but I'm not entirely sure on other aspects of the design (I'm only 2nd year univ, dont know how to do formal hardware analysis yet hehe).
Of course the point that everyone is so quick to forget is that none of this crap matters. Both the ATi and nVidia cards pull ofd well over 80fps -- which is beyond what people are even able to 'sense' let alone 'see'. So what do we have: ATi's strength in AA/Ansio is pointless; nVidia's (supposed) framerate advantage is pointless -- pointless + pointless should (directly) equal pointless but for some reason it often equal pointless pissing contests -- often between people who own neither card hehe. (Isn't it amazinf how every ATi fan says nVidia cards are 'slow' or 'sluggish' just because of their experience with one specific card (and usually a budget card at that) and every nVidia fan will point out ATi's not-so-great drivers (without knowing the first thing about DDK)? LOL
Another thing to note is that one can easily make a benchmark work a certain way if they so choose -- an optimization here or there and a different tweak here or there and the benchmark swings a certain way. Marketing firms everywhere have been doing this for the longest time ever and for reasons that completely boggle me, these 'fans' dont seem to realize that LOL
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AlexR
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21. June 2004 @ 06:31 |
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I heard the NVidia 6800 is going to cost around $499, and the ATI X800 is going to be $400 or under. Guess we will see soon enough. I would think the Nvidia would have the edge, for the simple fact it will be more money. I have seen the 6800, don't really like the way the card looks, it looks like a plasic case with a mermaid on it, looks like a kids sticker or something, and the X800 pretty much looks like a 9800pro chip, the X800 is a little more decked out, but overall looks the same. Save your money kids and buy a cheaper card than these two, pick up any of thse fine choices. ATI 9200pro, Nvidia 5200, ATI 9600, ATI 9700Pro(Awesome card) also Nvidia 5700. Any of those will run current games flawless. I'm sure all of these would run Doom 3. It's all about Doom 3, if you're playin it then your winning, nevermind the fancy video card, it's Doom 3
alex R
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Praetor
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21. June 2004 @ 07:24 |
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ATI 9200pro, Nvidia 5200, ATI 9600, ATI 9700Pro(Awesome card) also Nvidia 5700. Any of those will run current games flawless. I'm sure all of these would run Doom 3
Hell my Ti4600 will run Doom3 (albeit at crappy framerates, and on certain levels, negative framerates hehe). But most certainly not the 5200 or the 9200... those cards simply dont have the juice to run Doom3.
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It's all about Doom 3, if you're playin it then your winning, nevermind the fancy video card, it's Doom 3
Oh hell ya but lets not turn this ATi vs. nVidia brawl into a Doom3 vs HL2 brawl ;-P
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otester
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21. June 2004 @ 07:38 |
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He could turn it into that because thats why this forum is called Nvidia (shit) vs. Ati
oli
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21. June 2004 @ 08:07 |
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He could turn it into that because thats why this forum is called Nvidia (shit) vs. Ati
Let him (or anybody) try and we'll see how Praetor feels about it :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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21. June 2004 @ 08:21 |
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I would think the Nvidia would have the edge, for the simple fact it will be more money.
Not the best way to pick a card :) Looks don't count for much either, the proof is in performance.
The ATI X800 Pro is selling for around $450 but the X800 Platinum will go for at least $500.
Both the top of the line cards (6800 and the X800) run neck and neck in every test I've read so far.
The only way a 5200 or 9200 will play Doom3 "flawless" would be at 800X600 resolution with all the eye-candy turned off which defeats the purpose of buying the game in the first place. Kind of like buying a top-fuel dragster and then putting down the street at 25mph.
*edited for clarity*
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. June 2004 @ 14:53
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AlexR
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21. June 2004 @ 11:22 |
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I heard a rumor, don't know if it is true. I heard they might re-work the ATI X800 at a later date to make it even better. I guess they are going to sell it as is right now until they sell out of the card, then start building it a little different. Heard they are using parts from the ATI Radeon 9000 Pro to help max out the X800 abilitys. I guess there is a chip inside the ATI 9000 Pro, that is the best piece of hardware in video card history, they over looked it I guess and never used it's perfomace in the 9000Pro card, they slipped up is what I heard. I heard People are now tampering with their ATI 9000pro cards to up beef up it's performace 100%....And they say with this kind of perfomace gain the X800 will be bassically a x800 Super card. Don't know if it is true or not, guess we will have to wait and see.
alex R
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otester
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21. June 2004 @ 11:35 |
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if your right then ATI's a bit gutted because a 9000 Pro is quite cheap!
oli
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Praetor
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21. June 2004 @ 15:08 |
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Let him (or anybody) try and we'll see how Praetor feels about it :)
If (pointlessBickering(thread.posts) || (mindlessFlaming(thread.posts))) {closeThread(Praetor, this.thread); dissapointed(Praetor, very);} else {keepPosting;}
;-P
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The only way a 5200 or 9200 will play Doom3 "flawless" would be at 800X600 resolution with all the eye-candy turned off
Not a chance buddy ... very VERY unfortunately btw but the calibre of these new games is CRIPPLING. My Ti46 will choke and die on certain levels (-8FPS) while on good levels I think Ill score ~10-15 fps ... moving slowly and shooting minimally (which is the case cuz im too damn terrified to shoot .... noise .... attract .. bad guy .... me ... die.... bad). In either case, lets get back onto the nVidia/ATi hardware rant rather than digress to gaming talk (that's what Blasteroids is for anyways hehe)
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21. June 2004 @ 15:42 |
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My Ti46 will choke and die on certain levels (-8FPS) while on good levels I think Ill score ~10-15 fps
Time for a new vid card! I hear the X800's come with a huge sticker you could put on your case ;)
I absolutely agree that these next gen games are crippling indeed. And it's only going to get worse.........or better depending on what you're packing :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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Praetor
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21. June 2004 @ 19:37 |
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Dude.... I dont have a problem with ATi's hardware ... it's just three of the four times I've bought and ATi card ... I didnt get the card I bought ..... i dont like those kinds of odds
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21. June 2004 @ 20:20 |
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I know, just funnin' ya buddy ;)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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otester
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22. June 2004 @ 06:59 |
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Praetor where do you buy your cards from.
oli
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Praetor
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22. June 2004 @ 09:48 |
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Uh .... you probably dont know the guy but his name is Tony .... I dunno what kind of answer you are looking for exactly(?)
:)
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otester
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22. June 2004 @ 10:02 |
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PCWORLD,EBUYER,NOVATECH,DABS,SIMPLY.........
oli
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Praetor
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22. June 2004 @ 11:13 |
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Uh.... "some small-computer-store-that-doesnt-have-branches-anywhere-else-but-this-tiny-ass-town" ... in all honesty I'm considering getting a company license and stuff so I can get stuff at resale prices ... havnt decided on that yet but let's not stray too far off topic
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. June 2004 @ 11:14
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22. June 2004 @ 11:17 |
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Where do puppies come from?
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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