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Nvidia vs ATI
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Praetor
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8. July 2004 @ 09:24 |
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What Eva!
Dont bring that gangsta crap here or you're gonna dissapear real fast -- either contribute or lurk.
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Both cards are bassically the same experience they both are within there generation, any game the x800 can play beautifully so can the 6800 and vise versa. If I was a Video card geeker, I would have to go with the X800 just for the simple fact it might be a few bucks cheaper and it looks alot cooler inside your case with the clear side to drool over. To me the quality built overall has to go to the Nvidia, the Nvidia looks like it might user little higher grade componets and the cards look as though it may cost a little more money to make, is probably why the price is a little higher over the X800.
w00t! Very well said ... i would imagine the 6800 costs more becuase it's built on a smaller process (unless ATi has finally caught up).
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JSRife
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9. July 2004 @ 10:42 |
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So true Praetor,
I can see the ATI X800 selling more than the Nvidia 6800, it makes sense ATI would be selling more, they have great marketing over Nvidia it seems like, I could be wrong but I always hear People talking about ATI over Nvidia. When ATI always comes out with a new Video card with the big badass dragon on the front of the box or some other badass type of thing with the word PRO on the front of it, People getting a little nutty over it really quickly. Then you see Nvidia with some Cyber chick on the front of the box or a mermaid your like screw this, lol.....I'm not saying I think ATI is better, maybe their marketing is a little better, on the other hand Nvidia is probably spending more time and putting great quality into their cards, not saying ATI aren't quality, I think Praetor is right when he says they produce more cards.
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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11. July 2004 @ 09:54 |
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What is the difference between the ATI X300 and X800? I saw an X800se. Does that mean SE as in stripped version? Will there be a Pro version later? Is there a Pro version now?
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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11. July 2004 @ 10:47 |
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X300
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx300/specs.html
Dammit why does ATI keep doing that crap (64bit memory interfaces).... that stuff is archaic and the fact that AI is a major player means that they have the ability to influence the market.... I can understand the 9x00 series having an SE variant but come on .... the X-series should be devoid of this 64bit stuff! Geez 64bit was circa, what, TNT2??? So aside from this (IMO, crippling modification), the X300 is just the same thing but with less pipelines (and using DDR memory).
But also looking at the X600, it really does seem like the 9800XT/Pro could give that card a potential lesson or two:
9800 Series
256bit memory Interface
AGP8x
Support for Smartshader 2.1
Support for HyperZ III+
8 pipelines
4 shaders
X600
128bit memory interface
x16 PCI-X (theoreitcally AGP16X)
Support for Smartshader 2.0
Support for HyperZ III
4 pipelines
2 shaders
Now unless I'm missing something, its been quite some time since the top dog of a last-generation series beat the snot out of a midrange-dog of the current series (hell im stretching my mind and the best I can some up with is GF2Ultra and GF3Base)
Now unless I've misread something horribly wrong.... this is a really bad thing for the game development industry (reminiscient of the GF4MX but not that bad). Game developers keep pushing games, designing them to be stunning on top-dog cards but "more than good enough" on medium-range cards ..... and with the advent of a completely new series of cards.... to have (a) that 64bit stuff still hanging around (on midrange cards at that) and (b) for top last-gen cards to beat midrange current cards ..... that's gonna leave a bunch of people dissapointed I would imagine (especially since, i would expect, the X600 to be more expensive than the 9800 series cards).... .someone please correct me... i hope im wrong
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The_OGS
Senior Member
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12. July 2004 @ 13:35 |
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GF2Ultra and GF3Base
Yes I know what you mean, the new MX model would be lucky to equal the previous deluxe model (but, at a fraction of the price).
Is the castrated ATI board inexpensive?
I have heard something about pipelines that are there but just disabled, until they can get the cheapo chip on fab.
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Praetor
Moderator
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12. July 2004 @ 22:40 |
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Is the castrated ATI board inexpensive?
Probably so. If the X800 sells in the $400 range I would expect the X600 to be in the $200-$250 range -- MORE than I would ever consider paying for that kind of crippled board.
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GF2Ultra and GF3Base
And that's by a VERY large stretch
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I have heard something about pipelines that are there but just disabled, until they can get the cheapo chip on fab.
Not since the 9500
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JSRife
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13. July 2004 @ 04:26 |
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Seems to me every time someone says the X800 is better than the Nvidia 6800, people either say nothing or agree. When someone says the Nvidia 6800 is better than the X800 that's when People are quick to defend the ATI...Just seems like ATI is more popular. Seems like the Nvidia 6800 is the better card though, if it's going to be around longer and doing everything the X800 can do right now, and will be doing things the X800 won't be able to do in the future. But again, the 6800 doesn't have the cool box the video card comes in like the ATI series does...I think ATI is alot of hype, not saying they don't make great cards, but People believe if ATI's names on the box then it has to be good. Not always, I bet both companys make crappy cards...But damn to own the cardboard box the ATI comes in, Now that's excitement....LOL
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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13. July 2004 @ 04:56 |
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Seems to me every time someone says the X800 is better than the Nvidia 6800, people either say nothing or agree. When someone says the Nvidia 6800 is better than the X800 that's when People are quick to defend the ATI...Just seems like ATI is more popular
Heehee could just be that nVidia fans have more self restraint or are more open-minded and tolerant heeehee -- and I mean that. I remember a couple years back when we would/could have said the same thing about ATI fans hee
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But again, the 6800 doesn't have the cool box the video card comes in like the ATI series does...
Then again nVidia doesnt make video cards......... that in itself makes the comparison difficult.
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I think ATI is alot of hype, not saying they don't make great cards, but People believe if ATI's names on the box then it has to be good. Not always, I bet both companys make crappy cards...But damn to own the cardboard box the ATI comes in, Now that's excitement....LOL
You seem to have a wierd facscination with boxes........a better box doesnt mean a beter video card (hell.... of the various vid cards ive bought, most dont come in boxes)
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JSRife
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13. July 2004 @ 06:08 |
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Nvidia doesn't make video cards? since when? Is it Gforce then?
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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13. July 2004 @ 06:16 |
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Praetor...Just kidding about the boxes. I was just trying to prove a point..People sometimes buy something because it has a cool looking box or package it comes in, hell the product may even look cool. I'm just saying ATI is hyped up a bit ya know. Nvidia is just a str8 performer, no hype just quality product. I'm not saying ATI isn't quality it surely is, but if the 9800 series cards are beating out the X600, I would say they may be slipping up a little. Just hate when People talk crap about Nvidia..Get tired of always hearing ATI this ATI that....I mean come on.
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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13. July 2004 @ 06:37 |
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Nvidia doesn't make video cards? since when? Is it Gforce then?
The GeForce is a video chip.
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I'm just saying ATI is hyped up a bit ya know. Nvidia is just a str8 performer, no hype just quality product. I'm
No more hyped up than nVidia cards are.
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Just hate when People talk crap about Nvidia..Get tired of always hearing ATI this ATI that....I mean come on.
Yeah I hate that too but the same thing can be said for nVidia.
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otester
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13. July 2004 @ 07:22 |
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i get £270 for xmas, im going to buy a Hightech/Connect 3D/Hercules X800XT. im not going to pay the extra £60 for a 6800!
oli
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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17. July 2004 @ 15:23 |
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Kenshi Manabe, senior vice president of Sony Computer Entertainment Semiconductor division, said the Playstation 3 will need memory with incredibly high speed and tens-of-gigahertz bandwidth. "I'm not sure that even what we have seen for DDR-II on the present (industry) memory roadmaps will be high enough performance for us."
Okay back to this topic. The ol Computer Vs Game machine. Sounds like PS3 is gonna be spanking some Computer @sses
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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17. July 2004 @ 15:32 |
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While Playstaion 3 processor's design is still under wraps, the companies say Cell's capabilities will allow it to deliver one trillion calculations per second (teraflop) or more of floating-point calculations. It will have the ability to do north of 1 trillion mathematical calculations per second, roughly 100 times more than a single Pentium 4 chip running at 2.5GHz. IBM entered the dual-processor core market with the Power4, the first server processor to use a multiple-core design. Power4 pairs two 64-bit PowerPC cores on the same processor, linked by a high-speed communications pathway.
Kinda a kick in the balls isn't it...HA HA
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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17. July 2004 @ 19:20 |
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And where did you copy-paste that from? :)
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JSRife
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17. July 2004 @ 19:24 |
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Checked it out on a Playstation 3 web-site.
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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17. July 2004 @ 19:30 |
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And which one might that be? It would have been a bit more straightforward to paste the link (im not a console guy ... wouldnt know)
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Vular
Member
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17. July 2004 @ 20:03 |
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I seen news of an Ati Radeon X800 GT. My thoughts are that it has been released already as X800Pro cards that have the laser cut and are able to have the extra 4 piplines unlocked. Reason I think so is that the core and memory clock speeds are supposed to be the same as the Pro but with 16 pipes. Maybe the bios of this card could come in handy for people who tried the hardmod and had no success.
This Aint No Ice Cream Social!
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Praetor
Moderator
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17. July 2004 @ 20:59 |
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Vular: very kewl... is there any potential of doing something like a mod from X600->X800?
JSrife:
1. Short of liquid nitrogen cooling, a 10Ghz chip based on any conventional ideas known now, for a console is... silly.
2. Granted technology expands blah blah blah and in 2006 or so when the PS3 is supposed to hit shelves they might have a way of tapping 10Ghz dont think so myself but anything outside of 18months is absolutely uncertain.
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Sounds like PS3 is gonna be spanking some Computer @sses
You seem to miss a major point everytime! Do you *honestly* think computer chips arent going to be advancing? It would be a silly ... no... a stupid comparison to comparee a machine 2-3 years into the future against something we've got now. It's not like PC engineers are gonna take a "2-3 year break so console engineers can 'catch up'" .. when you read and copy-paste you need to take a look at the big picture as well as take it all in with a grain of salt
3. You
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otester
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18. July 2004 @ 02:01 |
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Whats better, an: FX 5950 Ultra or ATI Radeon 9800XT . Both using 256 DDR memory.
oli
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JSRife
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18. July 2004 @ 04:50 |
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Praetor the PS3 isn't a machine that is the future 2-3 years from now. The PS3 was sold in Japan just recently, but the system had problems so they pulled it from the shelves. The PS3 will be arriving sometime in 2005 in the USA, which isn't to far off. I very much doubt within the next year or so the PC is going to advance itself to be 100 times faster than a 2.5ghz Pentium Processor, I know Computers advanced quickly, but not that quickly, not within that time frame, 2-3 years from now yeah I can see it happening. And what I posted earlier the copy and paste thingy, it said they doubt DDR2 will be good enough for PS3, DDR2 will be around in the computer world in 2005-06 pretty sure of that. What they are saying is they are taking it to the next level with the PS3.
Sony Computer Entertainment International filed a patent with the US patent office detailing the Cell Architecture to be used in the next generation playstation (Playstation 3). This patent has detailed the specifications of what was entitled the "preferred embodiment" which throughout the patent had heavy references to the PlayStation 3.
The specs out lined in the "preferred embodiment"- read PS3 - called for 1 trillion floating point calculations per second.
Outlined herein are the specifications for the "preferred embodiment" as detailed in the Cell Patent. Remember that these specifications have yet to be confirmed by Sony nor are they likely to be final. However the specs of the PS3 will un-doubtly be very close, if not more advanced, than the following.
Playstation 3 System Specifications:
PE (Processing Element) Features and General Specifications
8 Identical Attached Processing Unit (APU): ??? bits, Single Instruction, Multiple Data (SIMD)
Clock Frequency: 4GHz
Integer Unit: 4 X Integer Units: 32 billion operations per second (32 GFLOPS).
4 X Floating Point Units: 32 billion floating point operations per second (32 GFLOPS)
Multimedia extended instructions: unKnown
Register Capacity: 128 times 128 bits
TLB: unknown
Instruction Cache: unknown
Data Cache: unknown
Scratch Pad RAM: unknown
Local Memory / Storage or (LS) per APU: 128 kilobytes SRAM
Main Memory: Main Memory: 64-bit XDR-RAM at 6.4GHz.
Memory Bandwidth: (dual-channel = 102.4 GB/s)
DMA: 1 channel per APU
Direct Memory to APU Access: 1,024 bits wide per channel. (8 Channels)
LS to Register: 128bits
Registers to Floating Point or Integer Units: 384 bits per channel
Floating Point or Integer Units to Register: 128 bits per channel
Geometry:
Perspective Transformation: unknown
Lighting: unknown
Fog: unknown
Curved Surface Generation (Bezier): unknown
Image Processing Unit: unknown
Image Processing Performance: unknown
Gate Width: 0.10 micron
VDD Voltage: unknown
Power Consumption: unknown
Metal Layers: unknown
Total Transistors: unknown
Silicon Process Technology: Silicon on Insulator (SOI)
Die Size: unknown
Package: unknown
Graphics Subsystem - Features and General Specifications:
Core: unknown
Clock Frequency: unknown
No. of Pixel Engines: unknown
Embedded DRAM: unknown
Total Memory Bandwidth: unknown
Combined Internal Data Bus Bandwidth: unKnown
Read: unknown
Write: unknown
Texture: unknown
Display Color Depth: unknown
Z Buffering: unknown
Rendering Functions: unknown
Rendering Performance
Pixel Fill Rate: 16 G/Sec
Particle Drawing Rate: unknown
Polygon Drawing Rate: unknown
Sprite Drawing Rate: unknown
Display Output
NTSC/PAL
Digital TV (DTV)
VESA (maximum 1280 x 1024 pixels)
High Defenition TV (HDTV)
Max Resolution: ~2560 x 1920
Silicon Process Technology: unknown
Total Number of Transistors: unknown
Die Size: unknown
Package Type: unknown
Disc Device
CD-ROM and DVD-ROM
CD-ROM unKnown speed
DVD-ROM unKnown speed
Can play DVD movies
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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18. July 2004 @ 05:06 |
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it's not fair to compare a Game machine not even out yet here in the States, it's not even done. Heard Japan had them and it didn't work out, don't know what that is all about, but a buddy of mine told me this, he get the Playstation magizine every month in the mail, he told me they (Sony) were talking about how they were being sold in Japan. If they make a Processor for the PC 100-200 times faster than a Pentium 2.5ghz is now within a year or two that would be very good, and maybe a bit far fetched, well I think anyway. It's not like in 2 years processors for these PC's are gonna be 10,00000 times faster, lol.....I mean look at the processors from lets say 1999-2000 what did the average computer have in it then? Pentium 500Mhz, 800mhz, somewhere in that ball-park, and now they aren't even 10 times faster then that and 4-5 years have gone by. Anyway, a Game system from even 2 years from now shouldn't be 100-200 times faster than a current PC(Processor wise) that is really sad. I honestly hope the PC can match the PS3 performance in the game world. I would much rather Spend $300-$400 for a PS3 over an X800 or Nvidia 6800 video card. Even if the X800 was 3 times better, I would still give the title to the PS3. I don't know for sure, maybe the Sony Stats are just speculation, could be. Or maybe it will end up being true. Always good to expect the possibilitys.
Jason Rife
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Vular
Member
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18. July 2004 @ 06:54 |
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This Aint No Ice Cream Social!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. July 2004 @ 07:13
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Vular
Member
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18. July 2004 @ 16:58 |
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This Aint No Ice Cream Social!
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Praetor
Moderator
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18. July 2004 @ 19:37 |
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Exactly. If I dropped that kind of money on a card, I'd spend every free moment using it. If you don't like one or the other don't buy it, but don't tell me what I should like unless you planning on buying the card for me.
Well most of my time using it... the rest would be for polishing and cleaning LOL
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