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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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18. March 2009 @ 12:52 |
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and Mountain Dew is probably one of, if not my favourite soft drink, especially the Cherry version.
Mountain Dew is pretty good. I have a can of it right now :D
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No BSODs or black screens, and on top of that, to my absolute amazement, the reduced bandwidth of the P45 bus seems utterly ineffectual, I can't tell the difference!
Only because of the processor bottleneck I'd think. 2 HD4870 512MBs get like 10-15% lower FPS in 8x Slots. I tried it on my 780G board with the Phenom in at stock. It uses 8x Crossfire. Compared to my 790FX board at stock it is a bit slower. Some games are affected by it worse than others. Crysis doesn't respond well and gets about 20% lower FPS. Other games, like FEAR 2 and Left 4 Dead, don't even bat an eye at it. But I suppose your results can vary.
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Lol you get stressed out seeing slippy PC builds? Or you get stressed if your PC's not the best at the event?
It's more about the quality of the builds. All the guys in my area have never even given a thought to cable management, airflow, or component selection. That E6600 with the SLI 8800s is the only other nice looking build. It stresses me out to see all the awesome PCs in such disarray XD
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The bottom only PSU is unfortunate, as it has space for a bottom 120mm fan, but any reasonably sized PSU like a Zalman will block that slot off so it can't be used. The same problem occurs with the HAF - here's proof:
The HAF looks f***ing awesome. I like the entire case layout. That can't be yours as it's using an Evga board :P But the cable management is awesome in that case. I've always liked Cooler Master's drive bays. They are sweet. It looks like it has all the cable routing holes pre-cut. I had to do that myself on the Armor XD
BTW did you guys see that XFX is making ATi cards now? A couple other previously exclusive companies are doing new cards too. Wtf is up with that?
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. March 2009 @ 12:52
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. March 2009 @ 14:22 |
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Haha, a 3.65Ghz Q9550 being a processor bottleneck. To be honest, I think you're right, but outside Crysis (which we know whores the CPU) the fps is relatively high, especially when details are lowered.
The pictures I've just posted are my system, no EVGA board in there, it's a Maximus II Formula, but agreed, the cable management isn't quite to the standard of the EVGA system.
XFX cards have been out for a month or two, was tracking that since I first heard the rumours last year. Very pleased, XFX are a good company. I think with the rise of ATI in the graphics department other manufacturers are moving over. Palit and Gainward have already done so, XFX have followed suit. nVidia's only patriots worth keeping these days are EVGA and BFG.
Interesting note, moving from the NZXT to the HAF has dropped my GPU idle temperatures by a full 20 degrees if I have the main fans at full speed. :O - They aren't especially noisy either, the worst one (the front) is probably 27dB tops.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. March 2009 @ 15:00
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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19. March 2009 @ 14:51 |
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Oh holy shit, that's YOUR HAF!!!
Haha see I told you you should get it. Finally listened. Are you gonna paint over the logo? haha
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. March 2009 @ 14:54 |
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Not for the moment, I'll make a hash of it and it'll look worse. I'll leave it alone for the moment... I really like the case, it even sounds nice.... :P
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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19. March 2009 @ 22:39 |
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Yes, lovely case Sam. And if it "sounds nice" nothing more needs to be said - we all know that you have the most sensitive ears at After Dawn, haha.
And I see that Boozer just woke up out of his drunken stupor and realized that you weren't talking theoretically but that you were posting pictures from your own room! Hahahaha.
What!?!! Lowered the gpu idle temp BY 20 DEGREES!! Holy shit - now I'm seriously jealous. Do you think I'll be able to get that kind of airflow with the modded fans I had diagrammed on my - cough - SPEDO?
Changing the subject - Man!! JEFF JEFF JEFF!! (Another mountain dew junkie!) You're the testing expert!!!
You're actually saying that you have two different AMD boards, the 780 and the 790, and they are quite comparable, except for the 8x versus 16x for crossfire? And you were running the same phenom II chip in both?
If your answers are Yes Yes Yes, then I cannot help but be quite impressed. A real-world empirical test showing significant fps impact! That friggin settles that - good job Estuansis! For the future, we'll just have to defer to you and your testing laboratory in regard to any other questions of that nature. LOL
But seriously, I find that fascinating that you were able to pick up a quite noticeable drop in performance - we were expecting to see something - but as you pointed out, Sam's chip is just too damn slow! Hahahaha.
Anyway, if the deal ever closes, and I jump from 2005 technology to become the nehalem guinea pig for us here, like Shaff suggested about 6 months ago, I am wondering if I am going to be able to get the 920 to 4 ghz on that DFI board, assuming I can muddle through the bios without setting everything on fire. And from what I have read, no sense spending $350 more on a 940 when I can get a 920 for $229 at Microcenter - some of the forum guys say it is EXACTLY the same damn chip - one just needs to overclock the crap out of it - and they say it overclocks very well.
(Sounds like the nehalem version of the good old overclocker Q6600. Speaking of that - Boozer told everybody to get that chip when you guys were still thinking core 2 duo - then he told everybody to get the HAF. Why do we always follow Boozer's advice - about a year late? Hahahaha.)
Back on the 940 versus 920, I did read, on the other hand, where the Biostar claims it has the overclocking record on the 940 at 4.8 ghz. Since it starts out a little faster, one WOULD assume you could get it to a faster overclock - otherwise, really, why pay all that extra dough? And it is still quite pricey - $350 is a serious amount more change from a 920 to a 940. Of course, the results from your testing laboratory, Jeff, are now in, and the Q9550 is the bottleneck for 775!
So maybe the 940 is worth it. Does anybody think it would be worth it to spring for the 940? Sam you swapped out the Q6600 to get your Q9550 which you have fairly close to 4ghz, and you DID get performance improvement. What's your feeling on that subject? Did it turn out to be a better overclocker than the Q6600 - it has more cache too doesn't it?
Another question, they were testing some really high performance Dominators on that H8 DFI board over at Hardward Canucks. For a guy like me who wants to stay around the $200 price tag which is still a fortune compared to 775, what speed Dominators make sense - and is that 3 x 2gb for the 1366 instead of 2 x 2? (....although the Hardware Canuck's review couldn't tell any difference from 6 gigs to 4 gigs.)
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 01:34 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Not for the moment, I'll make a hash of it and it'll look worse. I'll leave it alone for the moment... I really like the case, it even sounds nice.... :P
Yah...I dont believe i'll need a case for quite a while indeed!!! I'm really loving the HAF 932!
Man...I really want a new card! This 8600GT is pretty outdated when you think about it! My onboard video is ati 3300Chipset. Not sure if that would be any better! Though I think it definitely has bluray playback. Where the 8600 does not(I believe). Hmmm, think I just answered that question, LOL. But that will be outdated before too long, probably already is! But I also want a WD raptor! And I only have 250$ to spend! Is it possible to buy a card better than the 3300, and a raptor while maintaining that price?
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2009 @ 01:34
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 07:33 |
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Well, the i7 940 is 10% faster than the 920 in clock speed. The Q9550 and Q9650 are less than 10% apart and used to be substantially different in price (£250 vs £400). The Q9650 has now plummeted to £273 however, not far off what I paid for the Q9550 E0 off ebay, but the extreme remains expensive.
The 920/940 for i7 are much the same, better clock speed but same chip, and again, the 940 is just under double the cost of the 920 (£476 vs £246).
If i7 overclocks are FSB limited by board though, the overclocking on the 940 will obviously be better by 10%. Consider that if the Gigabyte Extreme can get the i7 920 reliably to 4Ghz, with enough voltage, the same board should reliably get the 940 to 4.4Ghz. If the Biostar is better at overclocking than the Gigabyte, it would make sense that it could potentially reach such a sped, but I dread to think what core voltage was being used. That is serious water-cooling-only territory. My mate Jon has an i7 940 and the Gigabyte Extreme, and getting that to 4Ghz pushes 70C load on his tower cooler (He uses a Noctua)
Ultimately though, $350 is a hell of a lot of money to blow on a mior overclocking increase. Unless this real-estate deal sees you richer than ever, you may as well be realistic and save that money for other potential goodies later down the line.
It would surprise me to find no performance gain from triple channel to dual channel memory with an i7, as their best area is video encodes, which are what respond best to memory bandwidth. In games though, you're looking at the same as with 775. I can't tell difference between 700 and 950mhz memory.
The HD3300 is not better than the 8600GT trust me, integrated video is still pretty abysmal at games.
It is perfectly doable to get a raptor and a better graphics card all-in for $250, if after rebates.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102822
This deal is $235 after the rebates, $270 before them.
The HD4830 is slightly better than the 9800GT, which means it beats the 8800GT, 8800GS, 8800GSO, 9600GT, 9500GT, 8600GTS, 8600GT...
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 14:22 |
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Thanks for your reply sam :) You just inspired me! Now im gonna look even deeper LOL
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2009 @ 14:24
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 15:40 |
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Hmmm...What would you do? Newegg has a deal for the regular raptors(74gb)! Buy two save 40$(159.99)shipped! Or buy ONE of the Veloci's at what I hear are UP TO 35% quicker for a little more. I say a little more because I dont count Mail in rebates. I dont trust them, from all the negative reviews ive heard about them. 179.99!(159.99 After 20$ MIR)
Would appreciate a quick response. A deal like this wont last long. But I know were all busy at times :)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 15:42 |
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Velociraptors are much quicker, much cooler, much quieter and have twice as much storage. Your call.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 15:43 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Velociraptors are much quicker, much cooler, much quieter and have twice as much storage. Your call.
Ahhh...but what about RAID 0? Have you ever toyed with a raid config?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 15:47 |
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Yes, and I found it utterly benefitless. The situation is worse for Raptors, as RAID 0 harms access time, which is the only advantage the older Raptors have over 7200rpm drives (The Caviar Black and Samsung F1 drives are faster in MB/s, but take longer to access files. RAID only improves MB/s). The one occasion when RAID works is with SSDs, as they're completely useless without it.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 16:00 |
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Thank you sir. I believe you just sold me! However, Im gonna have to put off the GPU :( Which is fine and good. Perhaps in a few weeks, the 4870 will be down enough to consider. The one im looking at is 179.99 I wouldnt mind seeing it drop to 149.99 before I bite the bullet LOL. Though im sure its worth the 180$ :D <----Drooling
I might even consider a 1gb version. Not sure. Like to read up on it a bit more. GPU's are still way out of my league LOL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102810
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 16:03 |
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 16:08 |
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Not bad, Not bad :) What are your thoughts on HIS compared to Sapphire? They seem to be identical spec, simply different manufacturers.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 16:09 |
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Both are respectable manufacturers.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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20. March 2009 @ 16:17 |
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Well...The HIS card should be down even more in 2 - 3 weeks then. Of course now that ive said that, something will probably happen to prevent that LOL. I have this way of hexxing things 0.o Thanks for your assistance buddy :) I really wanna buy it now, but figuring it'll come down in a few weeks, plus being close to broke now...I just cant do it :(
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. March 2009 @ 22:54 |
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Wow, Sam, I see you and omega are duking it out, lol. You're giving him a bunch of help. I just read through your reply to me, and I have to read it again even more closely, but I am running out of time today. Another better post tomorrow about the 920/940 controversy, and dual verus triple channel. See you guys then.
Edit: It's "tomorrow."
Here I am, and I forgot everybody takes off for the weekends. The real estate deal is still alive. (Just met a contractor at the house to resolve a minor termite report issue - a soft spot in one of the upstairs bathrooms - some wood rot in the sub-floor - $280 - might end up coming out of my commissions though - there goes the 940 for sure if that happens, lol.)
So the 940 vs 920 call is a hard choice - but 4.4 ghz somehow sounds a lot faster than 4.0. But you're probably right, for $229 versus about $589 or whatever it is, I'm not sure the 10% overclock improvement is worth it - no question about it, that 920 is value-priced at Microcenter.
I see, changing the subject, that you're not too gung-ho on Raid 0 - here I had thought the two heads were a big plus for speed - but you say it increases mb/s, but slows down access time. Hmmmmm.
Is it a bad idea then for gaming? I was going to have two Seagate 640 gig 7200 rpm sata drives on a raid 0, but should I just have them as drives D and E instead?
And what do I want on the faster outside edge of the drives, the operating system, or the game itself? I'm thinking not of XP - because I'm going to just ghost my xp over to the bigger drive, so I don't have to re-install all my games - but for the partitions for vista and windows 7.
Let me rephrase my question in a better way: If you advise me, as I thought maybe I read in your comments to Omega (by the way, good luck Omega at getting the coin together for a 4870, - I kind of know dude what "broke" feels like, lol.) that Raid is not worth it, then besides my boot.ini small drive C, I will have the big 640 gig drive D, and the big 640 gig drive E. Should I put the 25 gig vista and windows 7 partitions at the faster front of drive E, or at the slower inside, leaving the outside for the games?
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. March 2009 @ 01:01
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dawgzdoc
Newbie
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24. March 2009 @ 14:55 |
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Hey whats goin on... so I have a HP pavilion zx5190 notebook, radeon 9600 32 bit, 3.2 ghz, 1 gb ram, and tons of disk space...Im wondering if I can and how I would figure out which graphics changes I can make(upgrade). Also can I add a gig of pyshical to this notebook?more? any help is appreciated, sorry if I'm in the wrong place...a point in the right direction helps too.
Matt J
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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24. March 2009 @ 15:18 |
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I'm afraid the answer is simple:
None, it's a laptop, buy a new one.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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24. March 2009 @ 20:10 |
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Yep - no graphics changes can be made - but you probably can add another memory stick. I just picked up a dell latitude 610 off corporate lease refurbished from microcenter for $275 (orig cost $2100) 1.6ghz centrino, came with 512mb main ram, they sold a 1 gig stick for $10 that popped into the back. I suggest you download the user manual and the service manual and read the section on upgrading the memory to 2 gigs, and then see what kind of a 2gig stick is available.
Good luck!
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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24. March 2009 @ 22:43 |
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You're actually saying that you have two different AMD boards, the 780 and the 790, and they are quite comparable, except for the 8x versus 16x for crossfire? And you were running the same phenom II chip in both?
Yes the Phenom II will work just fine in 780 boards. Though I don't recommend it as a few of them have heat issues due to the power draw. Get a 790FX board for Phenom II and be done with it. I'd recommend a Phenom II X3 at most for continuous use on a 780 board.
The 790FX board is much more, say, heavy duty. More heatsinks and heatpipes and better cable management design.
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Of course, the results from your testing laboratory, Jeff, are now in, and the Q9550 is the bottleneck for 775!
The Q9550 is not a bottleneck for LGA775. It's a bottleneck for 4 GPUs ;P
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Ahhh...but what about RAID 0? Have you ever toyed with a raid config?
I've been using RAID 0 for a few years now and it does work, just not very well. Slightly better MB/s but longer access times. The Raptor drives work well with it, but it kills their access times as well. Sam is right about SSDs. They make RAID 0 worth your time :)
Not that I have any noticeable wait time for anything on my PC. It just takes a second longer to respond when working with big files :)
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. March 2009 @ 23:25
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dawgzdoc
Newbie
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24. March 2009 @ 23:47 |
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Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Yep - no graphics changes can be made - but you probably can add another memory stick. I just picked up a dell latitude 610 off corporate lease refurbished from microcenter for $275 (orig cost $2100) 1.6ghz centrino, came with 512mb main ram, they sold a 1 gig stick for $10 that popped into the back. I suggest you download the user manual and the service manual and read the section on upgrading the memory to 2 gigs, and then see what kind of a 2gig stick is available.
Good luck!
hey thanks alot....do you think the 32 bit radeon is my problem for not being able to really handle new games with high graphics or is it the ram
Matt J
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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25. March 2009 @ 00:03 |
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It's the whole laptop actually. It's extremely outdated and slow as a snail compared to what the newest games need. The Radeon 9600 came out in 2003. And don't even get me started on the Pentium 4. They were really poor even for their time :(
Any one of my PCs absolutely blows that laptop away. And even I have trouble with a few games. Get a new laptop or build a desktop.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. March 2009 @ 00:09
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. March 2009 @ 07:16 |
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Initial benchmark reports, read as you like, but since the cards are already on sale in some countries, it's not as necessary to lie....
HD4890 1GB vs HD4870 1GB
Far Cry 2 DX10
1680x1050: 9.4% benefit
1920x1080 8xAA: 12.1% benefit
Crysis DX10 benchmark all high
1680x1050: 7.5% benefit
1920x1080 8xAA: 9.5% benefit
STALKER Clear Sky
1680x1050: 10.5% benefit
1920x1080 8xAA: 18.3% benefit
FEAR 2
1680x1050: 13.3% benefit
1920x1080 8xAA: 13.5% benefit
Call of Duty World at War
1680x1050: 2.4% benefit (CPU Ceiling reached)
1920x1200 4xAA: 10.6% benefit
GRiD
1680x1050: 4.7% benefit
1920x1200 8xAA: 10.8% benefit
Average gain across 11 of 12 tests: 10.9%.
Comparative performance index
HD4850: 82
GTX260 216: 96
HD4870: 100
HD4890: 111
All in all, it's a bit of a bring-up for the HD4870 and the GTX280, and even then I don't think it's going to match it. The rival of the HD4890 does indeed look to be the upcoming GTX275.
At the moment, initial prices look to be about $250-$270. For that money you may as well save up for an HD4850X2... If you can live with the noise of course!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. March 2009 @ 07:17
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