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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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22. April 2009 @ 12:07 |
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What size feet do you have?
The SG-01 is nowhere near the size of a shoebox, and IIRC the SG-02 is bigger still.
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. April 2009 @ 12:10 |
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SG02 is the same sixe as SG01
edit size 11 feet
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. April 2009 @ 12:10
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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22. April 2009 @ 12:11 |
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Actually it's the same but 7mm wider :P
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. April 2009 @ 12:13 |
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oh my 7mm, its HUGE!!!
:P :P: P
HAHA
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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23. April 2009 @ 22:58 |
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Shaff, you're back!! Well, while you were gone, down under Rubix Cube got started as the nehalem guinea pig, with the same chip 920, and almost the same board DFI H6 (I'll be getting the H8) as me.
Hey Rubbix, what's your clock on the 920 - NEVER MIND - YOU'RE AT 4.0 WOW!!!
Way to go rubbix, you're my hero. That will be my goal as well - the magic 4.0. (My paycheck has hope - the office administrator called and she said - "there's no escrow instructions in this package of forms" so at least that's progress after two weeks, lol.) I sure hope it fully stabilizes for you. With Sam's help, like the FSB guidance on increasing NB voltage, we should be able to get there.
Hey, does your DFI have all those bios profiles you can save - I'm sure it does. It seems like one would want to save a non-overclocked bios for non-gaming applications, and then switch to the max stable overclock before loading a particularly cpu-intensive game (like gta4.) And there could be some other profiles in between - I think one can save 5 bios profiles as I recall. Or does the DFI board already have auto demand stepping like the gigabyte boards? - for some reason I don't think so.
A shuttle pc? I've got some reading to do, never heard of it. Sounds a little easier to take to the Frag Socs than the water rig.
Originally posted by shaff:
oh my 7mm, its HUGE!!!
Why do the words: "banned again" come to mind? ---- Muhahahahaha!! -------- JUST KIDDING!!
Rich
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24. April 2009 @ 00:30 |
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Yeah it has profiles, but I'm not using them. I keep it oc'd 24/7. It's stable now, but I'm still deliberating whether to turn HT back on or not. I've seen a lot of forums on the web with people hitting high 70's temps during load testing, so there can't be anything wrong with those kind of figures IMHO.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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24. April 2009 @ 03:26 |
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WOW! Nice job on 4GHz. Very excellently balanced and pieced out rig. I'm impressed :)
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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24. April 2009 @ 06:22 |
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Why thankyou :) although my sig is lying until early next week - my gtx275s are in the mail. So i'm still using my old 8800gtx for now lol.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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24. April 2009 @ 12:46 |
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LOL, I updated my sig rather prematurely as well. Though in a few hours, i'll have my Ram :D
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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24. April 2009 @ 19:05 |
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Kevin, your latest sig is nice - the Omega photo-shopped well!
Rubix, are you talking about hyperthreading?
If that's what you're talking about, before you turn it on, why don't you bench something, like superpi or whatever, then turn it on, and if your overclock is not affected, see if you get better performance figures with it on.
From what I have read, most say just leave it on, but you must have had a good reason for turning it off.
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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24. April 2009 @ 19:23 |
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Performance gain with HT enabled depends on the application being tested.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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24. April 2009 @ 19:30 |
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Is it a good idea to start the overclock with HT turned off?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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24. April 2009 @ 19:31 |
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No idea, I haven't really researched what effect this has. I'd probably run with HT off anyway, it seems to be beneficial to turn it off for games.
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24. April 2009 @ 21:54 |
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HT off generally gives better stability at lower voltages, and for me about 10c less temps at load. Start overclocking with it ON, get it stable, watch the temps carefully, and if you think they are too high, turn it off and drop your voltage a little bit - it will still run stable but much cooler. I turned it off because I thought 80c on a load test was too hot - turns out its not, but I don't really want my chip getting that hot anyway. Plus I don't do video encoding/graphics etc, and sammorris said in a previous post that HT can negatively affect some games. If you are getting the DFI H8, and a core i7 920 you will hit 4.0ghz with ease. If it's a d0 stepping you should even be able to hit a bit higher with the same voltage I'm using. I have 1.375v CPU, 1.24v VTT and they are the only one's I've changed. Plus of course bclk 200mhz, QPI multi 36x, ram multi 8x, uncore multi 16x (2x ram or 2x +1, my board set it automatically when I changed the ram)
Just make sure you have damn good cooling. TRUE120 with push/pull, noctua nhu12p, or a coolermaster v10. Or of course water.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. April 2009 @ 21:56
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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25. April 2009 @ 00:20 |
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Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Kevin, your latest sig is nice - the Omega photo-shopped well!
Thanks buddy :) Now I just gotta figure out why 4 modules dont wanna run @1066! Perhaps for my rig, size is the trade off, ehh? I must admit, it does run quite well at 800 spec. Or should I say 848 ;)(212Fsb, 16.5Multi)
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25. April 2009 @ 01:20 |
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what voltage have you got it on? and command rate? 1T or 2T?
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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25. April 2009 @ 02:15 |
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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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25. April 2009 @ 02:46 |
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Thanks for the info, Rubbix. That's great material - those recommendations went straight into my new build notes.
Maybe you and Sam can help get Kevin's memory running to spec.
Also, thanks for the other info - I didn't know there was a d0 stepping to watch out for on the 920. (As I recall, on the Q6600 the latest best stepping was the G0, versus the earlier B7 I think it was. But the G0 ran 10 degrees cooler - so it was well worth it on ebay auctions to bid for that chip particularly.)
I wonder if that's why microcenter has a bunch of 920s at only $229, whereas on newegg they're $50 more than that - perhaps microcenter has a bunch of the older stepping. If so, would you suggest that the newer d0 stepping would be worth the extra $50? I have read that newegg won't guarantee the stepping, but I could read through the reviews and see which chip people are being shipped.
Yes, I understand that good cooling is ultra critical. Of the cooling solutions you suggest, I am planning on using the TRUE, push-pull if there is room. The fabulous hardware cannucks DFI review showed a great east/west orientation with push-pull, which I believe doesn't block any memory modules.
But as you can see on the left of the photo, that requires a slight mobo offset from the top of the case to accomodate hsf mobo overhang. The spedo is still in its box so I don't know if there is a sufficient mobo/case gap for that configuration.
If not, north/south works, leaving memory slots 2/4/6, which is all I need for 6 gigs ram, but I believe I read that there is room for only one fan in that configuration.
I'm planning to buy a freezone TRUE already lapped for an extra $19, and hopefully there won't be any heatpipe holes - they say it comes with no warranty. Eventually I might lap the 920 itself - I think estuansis lapped his older chips - I don't know about his new phenom. I know I'd void the 3 year warranty - but it's easier to do that on a $229 investment than on a $1000 investment. The chip would have to prove that it was rock solid of course before I would try that.
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 02:46
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25. April 2009 @ 04:02 |
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Looks like you will have absolutely plenty of room. See here. Heaps of space between the top of the case and where the motherboard ends.
Yea, the d0 stepping started manufacturing in early march as far as I know, so in the US I'm pretty sure they should be basically everywhere now. Over in aus, I personally got a c0 stepping because we are behind the times :( The S-spec code on the box of a d0 stepping should be SLBEJ, whereas a c0 stepping will be SLBCH.
I looked at the newegg reviews, and yesterday it seems someone posted and they got a d0, so I like your chances.
Edit: but then again, I read the review directly under that, and a guy bought two - one was c0 and the other d0. Hmm :S
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 04:03
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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25. April 2009 @ 16:07 |
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As I run a multiplier-locked intel system I can't help I'm afraid. I don't have the option to run my RAM any higher than 920mhz without cutting my CPU to 3.5Ghz, and we all know that's not going to happen :P
Rich: The latter Q6600s ran cooler as they cut the TDP with them. The old B3 was 105W, the new G0 was 95W. As far as I'm aware, no such change has been made to the i7 with D0, a shame as it uses more power than even the B3 Q6600. An i7 920 actually uses as much power as two Q9300s.
Realistically, the push-pull arrangement of the TRUEs doesn't seem too effectual, as there's interference with the rear case fan.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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25. April 2009 @ 20:16 |
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Oh wow - there is tons of room!!!! Thanks for finding that!
Originally posted by "Hey All - What about that underneath-the-mobo fan?":
Hey, just out of curiousity, from Rubbix' picture, what does anybody think of the spedo exhaust fan behind the motherboard - is it a stroke of genius on behalf of spedo for providing a way to get rid of some heat that most cases ignore - or is it just a marketing gimmick of negligible benefit?
Thanks for the info again - good stuff Rubix and Sam. I took note of those model numbers Rubbix - maybe I'll end up buying the d0 on ebay.
PUSH-PULL, THE REPEATER EFFECT
Yeah I know Sam you're not a major fan of push/pull. You believe it offers limited benefit, and maybe you're right.
I think of it the same way I think of intake fans being balanced by exhaust fans - the exhaust fans could be removed, and you would have flow out the passive exhaust vents - similarly you could turn off the intake fans, and you would have airflow into the case from the pull-through of the exhaust fans. But having both sets of fans is like adding repeaters to an electrical circuit, like a phone circuit, or like the booster the cable guy recently added to my cable line - all my tv channels are a lot sharper now!
A repeater in the form of an extra fan tries to make up for the friction drag on the air after it leaves the first fan. In the case of the TRUE hsf, that is particularly valid, because you expect a lot of turbulence through the aluminum heat sinks in order to get good thermal performance from the hsf. You expect a lot of drag on the air blowing into the TRUE. Sure, you're going to get most of that air coming out the other side of the TRUE, toward the back of the case, but the pressure will be dramatically reduced, I believe, by the drag from the aluminum fins. I have to believe that you can speed up that airflow through the TRUE, and increase the heat removal, by placing the vacuum cleaner of another fan right on the back side of the TRUE and sucking that slowed down hot air out!
Intuitively it makes sense, right?
Furthermore, Sam, your great points about the huge amount of heat produced by the 920, gives me more reason than ever to try to achieve a push-pull solution. I don't know if we can find any comparison tests anywhere, but I would love to see push-pull compared to just push (or just pull) to see if anyone has documented the two-fan benefit on the TRUE. Are you aware of any test like that, Rubbix?
PUSH-PULL, PLUS ANOTHER BACK CASE FAN ONE INCH AWAY?
So, Sam, let me ask: When you say interference from the back case fan, I assume you are questioning the fact that the back case fan will end up being about 1" from the pull fan on a TRUE push-pull fan setup.
So, (assuming we're not talking about physical interference - it looks like that won't be a problem) from an airflow perspective, will it interfere? That's a good question. What if we removed the pull fan from the TRUE? What would happen?
Having already made my case that I think push-pull is better than only one fan on the TRUE, then, unless I am wrong in my basic assumption, if I eliminated the pull fan from the TRUE, I don't see how I could expect the back case fan to do the work of the vacuum cleaner suction of the pull fan sitting right on the TRUE sink. The back case fan is at least 2" from the TRUE, and the power of the suction would not be nearly as great - maybe 50% less than applying the pull fan right to the TRUE sink. Does that make sense?
If that makes sense, and if we believe that the second pull fan is a benefit, particularly considering the huge amount of heat produced by a 920, then, let's leave the pull fan on the TRUE, and mentally, let's remove the back case fan.
But now that leaves the back TRUE fan with the job of not only sucking the sluggish hot air out of the TRUE, but also expelling it out the back of the case. But again, that TRUE fan is about two inches away from the case wall - and at least 20-30% of that air is going to be deflected off the vents and bounce back into the case I would think.
I have to conclude that adding a back case fan in direct contact with the vent will push the air out of the back of the case better than trying to let the back TRUE pull fan perform that job, in addition to cooling the TRUE.
Tell me if you see a major hole in my logic, but it seems to me that one would not want to eliminate any of those fans - it seems to me that one would want the push-pull on the TRUE, AND one would want the repeater effect of the back case fan, even if the two fans are only 1" from each other, lol.
Other than negligible increased noise, and negligible increased power usage, I don't see any negatives, but only positives. Where have I messed up (other than not being born a limie or an aussie? hahaha)
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 20:20
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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25. April 2009 @ 20:23 |
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Adding a fan like that doesn't necessarily help, as it forces the fan speed of the exhaust fan to rise, which harms its longevity, and it also does not create the pressure required for the extra amount of airflow to be effective.
Realistically, your best bet is to have the CPU HSF blowing into as big or as powerful a fan as you can get. With a big top fan like the HAF (and possibly the spedo, I forget), put it bottom to top vs front to back.
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25. April 2009 @ 20:33 |
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IMO positive pressure is the best for cooling, and sam have you tried the push pull config as ALOT of people use it to great effect
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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25. April 2009 @ 21:08 |
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Hmmmm.
Here's another picture with dfi and back to front push pull.
Sam, you're saying that two fans in close proximity will affect each other causing fan revolutions to increase, thereby reducing fan life? I guess I could see that rpms could go up. But when you look at a scythe with 50,000 hours, how much life would you lose - half - I doubt it, but even at that, 25,000 hours if I game 10 hours a week is 250 weeks or 5 years. I can accept that.
Shaff's point is well taken. Hardware Cannucks seems to do a good job on their reviews, and Thermalright added those extra clips for some certain reason. Is push/pull just a marketing gimmick, or have any tests been done to show increased thermal transfer?
Anyway, Sam, yes, the spedo has a ceiling exhaust. You're saying, turn the TRUE around, north/south, (top/bottom) put a large push fan underneath, and blow the air into the ceiling exhaust.
Hmmm. Once the bottom clips are mounted on the motherboard, the TRUE can be mounted either way. I guess maybe some testing would be very interesting to see which way would work better. Blowing the air up would allow both the upper case exhaust as well as the ceiling exhaust to vent that air - but that configuration doesn't allow push pull. Implementing push-pull, you're blowing most of the heat out the lower of the two back case exhausts, with some additional help from the upper and the ceiling fan.
Somewhere on google, somebody has done some push-pull testing.
Edit1: Well, without spending too much time looking, here's one guy claiming 3 degrees further temp drop by adding the second fan on a TRUE cooling a Q6600.
Originally posted by Push Pull Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme on Q6600 B3:
So I have been rocking the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme and my temp dropped by over 20c from the stock cooler I was running. I still want to push further than 3.2ghz on my Q6600 B3 and so I did some research and found a few sites that had the Push Pull method going on... sooo I bought a 2nd Antec 120mm 3speed LED fan and I watched my temps drop another 3c. The speeds are 1200, 1600, and 2000. The temps drop lower and lower based on the fan speeds of course.
Edit2 - Evidence in the other direction:
Some more google research: "I did this test last winter and found that running two fans will make no difference on the temp. I did find that it cool quicker in dual mode to get back to idle temp much faster. It also made no difference when overclocking either." Different author, same page: "I've seen reviews where they proved that a second fan doesn't really make a big difference with the Ultra-120 Extreme."
Edit 3: Hardware Canucks Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT CPU Cooler Review 1/21/09
Originally posted by Hardware Canucks:
The entire delta amongst fan setups of the averaged core temperatures is less than 3°C. Even with this small delta, a pattern of cooling hierarchy is starting to reveal itself. Push/pull seems to be the best performer with push coming a close second and pull being last by a larger percentage.
. . . . . . .
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 22:23
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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25. April 2009 @ 22:14 |
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I Apologize for multiple post! Another thread is helping. :)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. April 2009 @ 22:39
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