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SONY LCD VS. SONT WEGA SXRD
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diabolos
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14. February 2006 @ 14:52 |
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if a shwo broadcasts in 720p and i have the 1080 tv, it would have to scale it to upconvert or downconvert?
Yes. It will "Upconvert" from 720p (1280x720 progressive) to 1080p (1920x1080 progressive).
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That means stretching the image right?
No it means scaling the image, there is a differnce. Streching is more like a digital zoom.
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and wouldnt that look bad when it is stretched?
This leads me to my next topic...
Scaling is the most important function preformed by an HDTV. If the chips that do the scaling are crappy then the tv will look like crap un-less it is recieving a signal that matches its native resolution.
The best scaler in the world:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/technology.html
Quote:
So since both hdmi and component cablkes are capable of the same 1080, would the only advantage of hdmi be less wires?
HDMI is superiour to Component Video because it is an all digital connection. When analog connections are used with digital equipment some quality is lost because the source must convert a digital signal to analog for transmition. Then the TV must change that analog signal back into digital data. After all of that it must also scale the image if it doesn't fit the native res requirements.
All that proccessing is bad. With HDMI and DVI the video doesn't have to undergo any conversions (except maybe scaling).
About Scaling:
http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_scalers
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. February 2006 @ 17:28
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mikej3131
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15. February 2006 @ 12:02 |
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I see, interesting diabolos.
So what about the sxrd scaling? do you know if the scaling on that tv is any good?
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diabolos
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15. February 2006 @ 15:11 |
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Its excellent at Scaling! It scales everything to 1080p (1920x1080 progressive). At the $5,000 price mark the scaling and video proccessing chips are decent across the board (at least for rear-projection tvs). For plasma screens expect to pay close to $10,000 for excellent scaling above 50".
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@ steimy
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i plan on getting all my components upgraded. The Tivo and TV to HDMI connections, all the rest to S-Video/Analog audio cables
Awsome! Let me know if you need any more assistance!
Acoustic Research (interconnect page):
http://www.araccessories.com/Cultures/en-US/Recoton+AR/Product+Ca...
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. February 2006 @ 17:18
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mikej3131
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16. February 2006 @ 05:57 |
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Actually you've been excellent assistance, thanks.
So i take it that sxrd at the $3000 mark is a good deal considering youre thoughts on how decent scaling usually comes with the $5000 mark
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diabolos
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16. February 2006 @ 11:42 |
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Yes, indeed! I was referring to the MSRP for the 60" which is $4,999
Ced
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diabolos
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17. February 2006 @ 13:00 |
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Upconversion DVD players 101...
Now that I have explained Scaling & HDMI I hope it is easier to see why upconversion DVD players are better than regular DVD players. But they have limits.
Upconversion DVD players take standard DVD signals (480i) and first makes them progressive (480p) then scales the image to fit the screens "Native Resolution".
Using the HDMI or DVI port on the player is always the best choice.
But they have limits...
Of course, the Upconversion DVD player is only as good as the chips that do the scaling! If a TV has better scalling than the unconversion DVD player there won't be a gain in quality from owning one. Unconversion DVD players are for people that want cheap HD fixed pixel displays (LCD, DLP, Plasma, LCoS, SED, OLED) but want there DVD collection to look great.
An upconversion DVD player DOES NOT ADD RESOLUTION! It simply scales the picture and offers an all digital connection for transmittion.
Upconversion DVD players:
(Me)
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/283440
(Upconversion in general)
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hd-upconverter.htm
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. February 2006 @ 17:35
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got_boost
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17. February 2006 @ 20:48 |
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alright, i work at best buy and have been full time in home theatre for over 4 years, the sxrd has an amazing picture and it scans to it's native resolution...it doesn't do true 1080p....if anyone doubts me, call sony urself, i'm friends with a sony rep!!!!!
modders are pussy's, that don't know how to really play....and most of all they suck
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diabolos
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18. February 2006 @ 04:35 |
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Calm down, I work at best buy too... That has already been said about the SXRD. And yes it can display true 1080p, meaning that it can display 1920x1080 pixels progessively, but it can't except a true 1080p signal over HDMI. Although, it is rumored that the SXRD can except 1080p via its firewire/iLink inputs. If you could confirm that for me got_boost it would be greatly appreciated, thankz.
Other non LCoS based sets that boost a 1920x1080 resolution like Mitsubishi's, Samsung's, and HP's DLP based sets use "Wobulation" to create the effect of 1080p (the chips only have 960x1,080 pixels). Most agree that Wobulation can fully distinguish a 1080i video frame but falls short of 1080p.
Wobulation:
(WikiPedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation
Diagram (S&V)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article...
Bring on SED!
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. February 2006 @ 05:51
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jpc1958
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18. February 2006 @ 05:15 |
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Let me throw a monkey wrench into the discussion here...
The product: Samsung's new 46-incher, the LNR460D, is the first LCD flat-screen HDTV to incorporate LED (light-emitting diode) backlight technology, which according to the company, offers better color reproduction and a longer lifespan than current LCD units. Thse TVs have a projected lifespan of 20k hours, not the typical 3K or 4K hours of lamp life. They are also better at the deeper reds in the color spectrum... I saw one at the CES show in Veagas this past january... EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE. All this from a Sony TV fan too! I have seen the Sony SXRD next to the Smamsung. The Samsung is better at standaed definition TV. My personal opinion - The Sony has a poorer SDTV picture. (IMHO)
Joe
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jpc1958
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18. February 2006 @ 05:26 |
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Hey diablos, the reason TVs can't accept 1080p inputs directly is because the industry has not workrd out all the copy flag protection, etc for that rate over HDMI. It's just that simple. Pure greed...
One they agree on / work out copy protection for that rate over HDMI, then toy'll see that as a valid input to HDTV gear. Currently the only TVs capable of this is the Mitsubishi line that records to a hard drive and can display 1080p.
Joe
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diabolos
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18. February 2006 @ 08:37 |
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How do you explan HPs MD6580n? It supports 1080p through HDMI. And I don't believe copy flags are the reason most sets don't except 1080p signals. I think the implementation is just expensive. HP has to be losing money.
HP:
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?prod...
HDMI.org on HDMI doing 1080p@60fps
Quote:
Does HDMI support 1080p/60Hz?
Yes, every version of the HDMI standard supports 1080p/60Hz. However, as discussed below, this is not a requirement, and manufacturers may choose to only implement 1080i, for example. For some types of devices (e.g. DVD players), this has not historically resulted in a reduction in quality as there has been relatively little true 1080p/60Hz content available, and 1080i can deliver all of the visual information available from the source.
HDMI Faq:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp#hdmi_specification#hdmi_...
Do you know if the other sets including the SXRD can recieve 1080p signals via Firewire?
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Samsung's new 46-incher, the LNR460D, is the first LCD flat-screen HDTV to incorporate LED (light-emitting diode) backlight technology
Intresting... Sony's Qualia 005 makes a similar claim. Since Samsung produces Sony's LCD panels I will bet that the technologies are very similar.
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. February 2006 @ 05:55
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jpc1958
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19. February 2006 @ 07:33 |
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Ced,
I stand corrected. In 2005 Intel, developed a new copy protection scheme, HDCD (HDCP is a content protection technology available for use in connection with HDMI that was developed by Intel Corporation (with input from Silicon Image). HDCP is not licensed by HDMI Licensing, LLC, but by Digital Content Protection, LLC (a subsidiary of Intel).
This is what allows HDMI 1080p. That's why you are just now seeing 1080p sources come into the marketplace. It costs a manufacturer US $15K per year to license the technology, and a per-unit fee of 1/2 us cent to 15 cents per unit produced to sell the product.
So now, the protection is in there and the money gets to change hands so big corporations get their cut...
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp
Joe
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diabolos
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19. February 2006 @ 08:38 |
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Cool. I already knew about HDCP, I try to mention it as much as possible. HDCP as been around for a while now which is the main reason the broadcast flag idea was voted down by the DC Circuit of the US Court of Appeals last year. The whole idea was rediculess if you ask me. HDCP is much simpler and doesn't cause as much of a head ache for consumers.
But I realy want to know if 1080p@24 fps and @60 fps can be transmitted via firewire. Also, I would like to confirm that the SXRD can receive 1080p via firewire/i.Link.
As far as HDCP it was worked into HDMI 1.1 which did cause some playback problems with older HDMI 1.0 equipment. DVI-D also supports HDCP. When you mentioned broadcast flags I though you where crazy...lol!
HDCP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
Thankz for the conformation,
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. February 2006 @ 08:40
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mikej3131
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20. February 2006 @ 08:05 |
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Hey guys,
Not to to smart with all the technical stuff you guys are talking about here. But if i read between the lines correctly, the sxrd i originally posted about on my first post is getting downgraded by you now? And these other tv's mentioned are a better bet if im looking for one?
Correct me if im wrong?
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diabolos
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20. February 2006 @ 11:11 |
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No, the SXRD is still Kick ASS! Its short comings as far as not having a 1080p input is shared with just about every set out there except the HPs and a couple of the Mitsubishis.
It has two HDCP compatible HDMI ports.
What made you think the we where bashing the SXRD?
Ced
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mikej3131
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20. February 2006 @ 12:40 |
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i didnt read that much into it because i know i wouldnt have understood it haha. But anyway, here is what i got out of those posts. Sxrd does not do true 1080p and the other sets mentoned did. Was i wrong also.
Also can you explain in non technical terms what this hdcp with hdmi is?
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diabolos
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20. February 2006 @ 14:47 |
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Quote:
Sxrd does not do true 1080p and the other sets mentoned did.
The SXRD does do 1080p as far as displaying 1920x1080 pixels progressivly. It does not however except 1080p signals via its HDMI ports. Most 1080p displays don't except 1080p signals via HDMI. I believe the SXRD does except 1080p via i.Link/Firewire though.
HDCP in non technical terms...uhhmm?
Have you ever heard of Digital Rights Managment (DRM)? HDCP is essencially DRM for TVs. All Copy Protected digital content at HD resolutions must pass through HDCP controlled ports.
Basicly, HDCP makes it so that only devices with HDCP compatible connections can transmit and receive HD quality content. That means that if a device like a HD-DVD player wanted to transmit a signal carring Copy Protected 1080i content to an HDTV via HDMI, both the HD-DVD player and the HDTV would need to have HDCP complient connections.
HDCP goes one step further and down-grades a signal if the display device isn't HDCP complient. Also no analog conections are HDCP complient either. That means that if your watching copy protected HD content via component video then the resolution will be limited to 480p.
HDCP (TheProjectorPros)
http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_hdcp
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2006 @ 19:12
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mikej3131
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21. February 2006 @ 05:08 |
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HMmm i see now. So there is no way to watch copy protected shows 1080p through the hdmi port on the sxrd. The only way is maybe through the firewire port?
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mikej3131
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21. February 2006 @ 05:09 |
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a little off topic here. I just got the gta:vice city iso and have the epsxe emulator.Anybody know how to configure and play this game? When i go to file-load iso ....all it does it bring up a black screen. Crash bandicoot works for me.
Is vice city even compatible with a playstation1 emulator?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2006 @ 08:33
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gerry1
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21. February 2006 @ 13:45 |
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Hi Mikej3131! ...I haven't read every post in this thread so I'm hoping I won't be repeating someone else. My comment is not about the TV but rather the comcast HD box and I mention it because when I first got my HD TV (Sony 42 LCD rear) and the HD comcast box, the comcast instructions were as brief as they were vague. The comcast box will have a menu with a variety of options from which to choose how the picture is brought from the cable box to the TV. To access this cable box menu:
Get everything connected. After the cable box has been connected to the wall for a half hour or so and all the programming info is in place, LEAVE YOUR TV ON but leaving the cable box connected to the power and cable connection TURN THE CABLE BOX OFF. (TV on...cable box off). Push the "SETUP" button in the upper right hand corner of the cable's remote and the various options will appear of the TV screen. I won't bother explaining the options; they'll be obvious. I didn't know if you knew about this so I thought I'd mention it because when I got my box, the instructions were really bad. Happy viewing! ... Gerry
BTW...my cable box is the DCT series (Motorola)...don't know if your's is the same.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2006 @ 13:52
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diabolos
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22. February 2006 @ 04:54 |
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Nice info gerry1. How did you figure out how to get to the Setup menu?
I wish someone would explain the Scientific Atlanta boxes like that.
Ced
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gerry1
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22. February 2006 @ 06:40 |
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I sort of pieced it together. Saw the cable guy do something which brought options through the cable box. I had this tiny picture on a 42' screen. There were troubleshooting directions of the info that came with the box dealing with a small picture but they were really bizzare but between those and watching the cable guy, I somehow pieced it together. I hope they've since made the instructions clearer; it has to be a pretty common problem upon setup.
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mikej3131
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22. February 2006 @ 07:36 |
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Hey gerry,
I have the dct6200 i think. it is the one with the firewire and usb ports. If i do get that 50 inch sxrd sony wega rear tv, what all wouild i have to change in the settings of the cable box? also gerry do you know how to transfer the files off the hard drive on that dct to a pc through the firewire or usb?
Hey diabolos, is it worth using hdmi to hook up my cable to my tv if its not able to use 1080p?
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gerry1
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22. February 2006 @ 08:33 |
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Hi Mike! Your box is of the same series and is listed on the set up instructions I got for mine therefore you would access the box's menu the same way I described. As for what the options will be...hell...how did I know you were going to ask me that LOL! To be honest, I have't done it in so long, I just don't remember. I'll look when I get home from work. As far as transfering the files the truth is that I don't have a clue. My PC is capable of home theater set up but I've never done it. I'll look at the instructions and the info I have about the cable box as well but truth be told, I'm something of a dunce in this area of inquiry LOL!
You asked Diabolos about the HDMI input; I'll mention what I did and why. Your TV is newer than mine; my TV has only one HDMI input and several component. I used the component to connect the cable box because a lot of AVRs and DVD players now have 1080i upconverters most of which, so far at least, only operate off their HDMI or AVI outputs. With only one HDMI input, I left mine clear for this purpose. Both my AVR and DVD player have upconverters. I can connect my AVR's upconverter through component which most don't allow so I used component and connected my DVD player's directly through the only HDMI on my model. I tried the DVD through the AVR but picture wasn't as good as connected directly to the TVs HDMI. (That 1080i upconverter in the DVD player is just awesome by the way; I couldn't believe my eyes when I first got it). I'll check the cable box menu options when I get home....Gerry
BTW I got my sony 42 lcd rear about a year ago and I couldn't be happier with it and the pic is awesome. I have only one regret which is not going one step larger.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. February 2006 @ 08:44
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mikej3131
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22. February 2006 @ 10:45 |
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i see, interesting gerry. So i take it your tv is capable of 1080 then?
Hey diabolos another question for ya to answer. if i get this sxrd and the hdmi can not use the 1080p, does component accept 1080p. You said you think firewire is able to use 1080p. is hooking the cable up through firewire better than component?
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