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should I go for RW dvd discs
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. December 2006 @ 04:20 |
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I'd also love to have a list of "100 different quality parameters", Joe.
As for this bit.
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Even if there had been, that disc developed errors over night as the dye composition begins its long slide to illegibility.
I will explain...
DVD Disks are made from different dyes which hold the data on the disk. It is visible on a disk, if it is not written to the outer egdes, a kind of colour change. Anyway, some manuacturers of disks use poorer qulaity dyes, which, deteriate very quickly make the disk unreadable to the laser, hence the word "illegibility". The disk becomes illegible to the laser; just as someones hadwriting would if you, say, spilt water on the paper. (Poor simily, but whatever.) As the dye deteriates, it causes errors on the disk, where the data is no longer readable. These come in the form PI/O errors.
That may not be a very technical explanation but it'll do. I'm sure, if he wants to, Joe will go into it further...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. December 2006 @ 04:46
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Member
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16. December 2006 @ 04:32 |
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Thanks Ripper for that. I got the bit about illegibility it was the "that disc developed errors over night" part that went over my head.
Also the point has been made that disc and burner compatibility is important, but what about the burning tool used - I use Imgburn.
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. December 2006 @ 04:37 |
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Quote:
but what about the burning tool used - I use Imgburn.
There are no real pros to burning an ISO of the files onto a DVD unles you're burning a Dual Layer disk, cos IMGBurn handles the Layer Break much better than Nero. However, there's no problem with burning with IMGBurn... You can use this guide.
Opinion differs between members though :-)
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Member
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16. December 2006 @ 04:48 |
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Thanks once again Ripper - I am grateful to you...
Opinion differs between members? On aD - surly not...
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. December 2006 @ 04:53 |
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Quote:
Opinion differs between members? On aD - surly not...
Lol, yes opinions differ form person to person. Everyone has their own tried and tested methods which they think is best and like to stick to. Some people use IMGBurn more than Nero and vice versa.
"Whatever works for you" - That's what I go by. However, I love to try out new software/methods when I get the chance too! :-)
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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18. December 2006 @ 04:30 |
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The statement about the long slide to illegibility refers to the fact that all dyes decompose over time. If it were possible to record a disc with no PIE errors whatsoever, that disc would develop those types of errors in a day or two as the organic dye begins to deteriorate. Some dyes deteriorate at a faster rate than others. Phthalocyanine CD-R dyes, for example, have proved to be the most stable; some DVD dyes fail within a year or two. Improperly recorded discs with unstable dyes can fail within a few months.
The only way to test longevity is perform environmental tests according to two different formulae: the Arhennius formula using one stress factor or the more accurate Eyring formula using two stress factors--usually temperature and humidity. Properly recorded discs are brought to at least 3 test levels, then taken to a point where they are bound to fail. Extrapolations from the data points will predict how long the discs will last under normal conditions. The problem is the the full test takes nearly 11 months to complete.
As for test parameters, here are a few:
electric--
I14H, R14H, I14/I14H, I3/I14, Asymmetry, I14H DV, I14H LV
digital errors--
PIE, PIF, PI sum 8, POF
physical measurements--
IDIA, STA, IDDA, ODDA, ODIA, RRO, LLO, LMA, DDA, DIA, TRP
jitter--
DD jitter, DC jitter, tilt jitter, bottom jitter
servo and tracking parameters--
DPD Amp, DPD asymmetry, FE, RN, Radial 1, Radial 2, TPP, TCS, SVY, SLT
format specific parameters (DVD-R/RW; DVD+RW)--
PPb, PPa, PPb DV, PPr, WOCNRb, WOSNRb, WOCNRa, WOSNa, NWO, WOBeat, LPPb, PWP, AR, BLERb, BLERa, Rb
physical checks--
dye comets, coating uniformity, balance, sputter mask marks, oil spots, edge cleaning, edge seal
The list goes on and on, but these are the most important checks.
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Member
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18. December 2006 @ 04:36 |
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Quote:
Lol, yes opinions differ form person to person. Everyone has their own tried and tested methods which they think is best and like to stick to. Some people use IMGBurn more than Nero and vice versa. Whatever works for you" - That's what I go by. However, I love to try out new software/methods when I get the chance too! :-)
There's actually not any mystery to this. It's mostly determined by how well the burning engine (not the software interface) interacts with the drives. Prassi and some of the independent engines tend to work better than Nero's own engine, for example. When a drive works well on multiple engines, it's indeed an issue of preference.
There are a few issues to remember, however, such as how Nero does not correctly gap data for DL burning, and how some versions did not use the correct UDF mode for DVD-Video burning. Nero has been a pretty bad offender in the area of being fully compatible. Just use good versions of anything you burn with.
Badly burned media, as caused by engines or interfaces, are yet another true cause of errors often blamed on the media itself.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. March 2009 @ 02:36
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Moderator
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18. December 2006 @ 05:32 |
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For my Panasonic DVD recorder i use DVD-RW discs from two companies that i would not ever use again for write-once recordings, Imation & TDK. I don't know what MID codes they are yet as i've had no problems with most of them so far (so haven't had the need to check the MID codes), they're just used for recording TV programs each day and re-used.
edit- out of curiousity i checked the MID codes -
Imation 4x - OPTODISCW004
TDK 4x - TDK601saku
they even play in standalone players well too, but i hasten to add, i will no longer use write-once discs from Imation or TDK, too many problems in my experience
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. December 2006 @ 05:50 |
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Quote:
There's actually not any mystery to this.
Never said there was. I said that "Opinion differs between members", which it does. Whether there is any mystery behind why or what is a different issue.
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There are a few issues to remember, however, such as how Nero does not correctly gap data for DL burning, and how some versions did not use the correct UDF mode for DVD-Video burning. Nero has been a pretty bad offender in the area of being fully compatible. Just use good versions of anything you burn with.
I am aware of that.
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Badly burned media, as caused by engines or interfaces, are yet another true cause of errors often blamed on the media itself.
Agreed. But when someone uses the combination of the two, it is easy to veer off in one direction.
Anyhow, I'm not here to argue/debate anymore. :-)
@Joe: Thanks, some of your info on the measures was interesting to read, however some of it a little confusing, all the same good. :-)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2006 @ 05:51
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Member
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18. December 2006 @ 07:41 |
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Thanks for the info guys - a very interesting thread. I stopped using RW except for testing as I was getting too many play back problems even though I was using (dare I say it) verbatim. I now record temporary stuff to hard drive.
After reading through this thread it seems that its a wonder anything works ever, and the DVD format could use a lot more work and it was brought to market too soon, but it wont get it because of the arrival of Blu-ray and HD - which if I have read other posts correctly - also has major problems.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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18. December 2006 @ 11:01 |
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Blu-ray is to DVD as DVD is to CD-R. The more the technology moves to the "cutting edge," the more chance there is of bleeding. A single hair can cover 250 Blu-ray tracks. Some people think that's amazing. I'd use the word "frightening." And although there is excitement about Blu-ray as an archival medium, I would not store anything on one any more precious than a grocery list because environmental testing wipes these things out before the oven warms up. HD DVD took a far more conservative approach, and that just might pay off for that format. By the time Blu-ray is as compatible as DVDs are now, DVDs will be as compatible and reliable as CD-Rs.
In my next life I want to be a goatherd in Switzerland living off wine, chocolate, and cheese--with no computers in sight and no "progress" to worry about.
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Member
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20. December 2006 @ 07:55 |
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Originally posted by JoeRyan:
Ritek has been manufacturing Maxell CD-Rs and some DVDs for the last four years. When the Maxell package says "Taiwan," that means "Ritek." All Maxell media production will soon be moving to Ritek so that Hitachi/Maxell can concentrate on Blu-ray production.
You're confusing manufacturing with re-branding. Maxell-manufactured media (using MXL or MAXELL media code) is made by Maxell in Japan. Taiwanese Maxell-branded media is just a pretty Maxell logo stamped onto a RITEK disc. But by all counts, that is a Ritek disc, not a Maxell disc.
The same is said of CMC media that is re-branded by Memorex and HP and others. It's still CMC media. It cannot be classified "Memorex media" or "HP media", for example. Those are just brands.
It's easy to mislead people, when discussing media, if you don't choose your words carefully. Of course, the person reading also has to read carefully, and sometimes that doesn't happen either.
Media is a complex topic, on that we can agree.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. March 2009 @ 02:37
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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21. December 2006 @ 07:36 |
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Ritek will be doing all the manufacturing for Maxell CD-R and DVD+/-R media in the near future. You can call it "rebranding" when the stampers are Ritek's and "manufacturing" when the stampers are Maxell's. In both cases, Ritek manufactures the discs. I don't know if Ritek was using Maxell stampers for CD-Rs in earlier times, but they have certainly "rebranded" many discs for Maxell in the past. I will try to make the distinction clearer in future posts. Thanks for the tip.
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