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how bad is this media?
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. December 2006 @ 07:13 |
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3.. Why are the inner halographic numbers different and or lacking on the Windata disc as compared to a genuine Verbatim disc?
They're fake then... I should think. Someone confirm that?
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econmajor
Junior Member
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21. December 2006 @ 07:36 |
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i guess that settles it... they're junk.
well since i can't burn PS2 games or DVD video on these, what are they good for? Will they be reliable enough for just data?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. December 2006 @ 07:45
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. December 2006 @ 07:50 |
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Will they be reliable enough for just data?
Well, depends how long you want to keep your data for. If these really are poor disks, then they'll die in about 6 months, give or take a month.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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21. December 2006 @ 08:20 |
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There are three possibilities as to the source of these discs:
1) Factory seconds rejected by Verbatim for their own use and sold off to UMEdisc for repackaging.
2) UMEdisc production using older or rejected stampers made for Verbatim/MCC--less likely.
3) Counterfeit discs--least likely.
It is not possible to determine how long the data will last on the discs unless there is more information. If it is case #1, Verbatim may have rejected the discs for electrical, cosmetic, or mechanical problems at the tricky outer edge. In that case, recording the discs half to two thirds full will allow them to last as long as regular Verbatim production. It would be prudent in any case not to record anything on them you expect to retrieve in a few years simply because there is no way of determining the quality without expensive equipment.
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dilligaf9
Member
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21. December 2006 @ 09:06 |
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Hi Joe... Do you have any info on this Ume Disc Ltd. I cant find much about them..The center hubs on the Windata discs have an opaque or frosty finish on them, different from the Verbs.IFPI FW79 is stamped
on the center hub of the R- and IFPI FW77 on the DVD+. Any ideas? Are there any good Hong Kong dvd makers? I dont think these are counterfeit , they UmeDisc Ltd just borrowed the MCC mid code so the disc is 99.9 compatible with current burners. Yea Right! Who am I kidding? :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. December 2006 @ 09:42
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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21. December 2006 @ 13:15 |
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Ume Disc is the second largest DVD producer in Hong Kong, slightly behind Infoscience Holdings. I don't know why the center area is frosted unless the stamper are rejects that had to be sandblasted or treated with acid to distinguish them from regular MCC production. Ume Disc cannot simply "borrow" MCC's MID code. That would be like Ford's sticking a Mercedes three-point star logo on their cars. That would truly be counterfeiting, but it has been done before. Some companies used TDK's MID codes on stampers of unkown quality to produce discs that appeared to be TDK media but did not perform as well.
I apologize for not knowing much about this company. I do know that Plasmon, a stamper producer, often ships stampers to smaller producers with a Plasmon MID code. Skye Media was one such producer. The stampers can be good, but the final quality depends on everything else that goes into the rest of the disc. A poor stamper will always produce bad discs, no matter how careful everything is done afterwards. Stamper geometry is a crucial part of disc quality, but it is almost a "black art" because of its complexity.
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dilligaf9
Member
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21. December 2006 @ 13:50 |
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Joe...So taking all the info we have so far it is very likely that these Windata dvds in plus or minus ARE NOT TRUE Verbatim, Definitely not made by Verbatim, because of the source UME Disk Ltd in Hong Kong and may not even be made with MCC dyes. Does Verbatim have/use any manufacturing plants outside of Taiwan?
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Senior Member
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21. December 2006 @ 19:09 |
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Is verbatim made in taiwan trash?
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dilligaf9
Member
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21. December 2006 @ 19:32 |
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Fred.. Made in Taiwan Verbatims are Not Trash. They are the #1 retail store media available in brick and mortar stores or retail stores as some call them. They are long lasting good burning media, second only to Taiyo Yudens. The Win Data discs we are talking about seem to point to trashy media, but are not made by Verbatim. Dont confuse the two.
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. December 2006 @ 19:37 |
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Verbatim/MCC does not manufacture DVDs . . . However, they manufacture the proprietary dye used in their DVDs . . . From what I've read, Taiwan produced DVDs are manufactured by CMag using MCC produced dye(s). . . The CMag crap media is the media produced with inferior dyes . . . Verbatim media is also produced in Japan by Taiyo Yuden, in India by Moser Baer and in Singapore . . . All is very good
Victor
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22. December 2006 @ 02:36 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. December 2006 @ 03:05 |
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I know Verbatim makes DL disc in Singapore, I don't know about SL discs.
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rick5446
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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22. December 2006 @ 07:11 |
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econmajor..My 2cents..is to try burning at 4X & see if this helps..I use DVD Decrypter to check the Disc for bad sectors..Usually if they copy back to the hrddrv they are OK.I've got six DVD Players & only 1 is Cs sensitive,so I start with that one 1st,if it plays the movie then the rest will.I've used a lot of inferior media B4 I learned..Also found that these are very gifts for people U really don't appreciate,like Xwife
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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22. December 2006 @ 10:38 |
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dilligaf9,
I wish I knew more about the Ume Discs you have. I'm wondering if the software you used to identify the discs looked at the 13 Field ID's, saw that the numbers matched those for MCC (maybe because Ume Disc used MCC dye and wrote the same data instruction set for their discs), and assumed that the matchup meant "MCC" even if the stamper was not manufactured for MCC. I'm trying to learn more about identification software, ADIP codes, and write strategy coding; but I'm not there yet.
MCC/MKK/Verbatim also use MBI near Delhi, India, to manufacture their discs. These are state-of-the-art facilities, but the process of manufacturing may need more maturing. CD-Rs from those lines are excellent.
The discs are definitely not made by Verbatim because Verbatim contracts manufacturing from reliable optical media plants in several places. Another possibility I had not thought of before is that Ume Disc may have attempted to manufacture sample production to Mitsubishi/Verbatim using some of their source materials. If the discs did not qualify, they could end up being sold on the open market. I'm just guessing because I really don't know.
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dilligaf9
Member
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22. December 2006 @ 12:10 |
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Joe... These are the House Brand media, made for MicroCenter as their own label WinData.. They had pallets of them from Ume and another company from China, dont recall the name. I wonder what the China brand would code out to be. If those come up Verbatim coded than we would have to think the worse... I used Nero CD Speed and DVD Identifier to get the id.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. December 2006 @ 12:12
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rick5446
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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23. December 2006 @ 05:02 |
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Here is some interesting reading on Discs & burners...
-The quality of the burner. A borderline defective burner can ?under
expose? the media to the laser beam, producing a seemingly good recording
(at the time of burning) that will ?fade? over time (failing weeks,
months, years or decades sooner than it should have had the laser beam
intensity been correct)
-Recording speed. Fast burns (52X) are probably less stable than somewhat
slower burns (say 16x to 32x), but you can burn media too slowly also.
There is a very good analogy here to photographic film and exposure levels
. The dyes on a given media have a certain range of acceptable ?exposures?
and outside of that range, you can either under or over expose the media
to the laser beam. However, mechanical jitter and certain other variables
-Labeling: The glues in adhesive labels, or the solvents in pen-type
markers, both applied to the label side (the side containing the data)
can SLOWLY penetrate the reflective backing and dye layers and destroy
the data. Therefore, for archival media, the safest policy is to not
label the CD or DVD itself at all. If you do label it, with either a
label or a pen, you are, at best, taking a chance with your data (hint:
it is safe to write on the clear inner hub (where there is no data at all)
with a suitable pen that won?t rub off).
(largely a function of the quality of the drive) generally will be
unconditionally worse at faster speeds.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0....511&tag=nl.e497
Very interesting Article
-Your own handling and storage practices. On a CD, the data ?exists? in
a dye layer on the label side of the media. This can be scratched from
the back (from the label side), which will literally and directly destroy
the data. The front side is clear plastic but can also be scratched.
While front side damage may make the data less readable or completely
unreadable, the data is still intact and undamaged on the label side,
and the scratches on the front can normally be removed by polishing the
plastic. On recordable DVDs, the data is on a layer ?inside? the media,
but the media is a laminate of several layers and can delaminate,
destroying the data. Flexing ? even VERY minor flexing ? is particularly
bad at causing such damage. And, also, recordable DVDs tend to fail from
the outside in, so you can increase your success rate and decrease the
incidence of failures by not recording such media beyond 80% to 90% of
capacity, leaving the outside edge, where the failure rate is greatest
and failure occurs first, blank anyway.
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Senior Member
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24. December 2006 @ 03:46 |
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Is there a top notch disc cleaner out there, the kind that cleans and or removes scratches and so forth, I know there are a lot out there or is all just bull or are any reputable.
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dilligaf9
Member
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24. December 2006 @ 06:17 |
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Fred.. If you have light to medium scratches on dvds and cds use Brasso. Works fantastic, kinda stinky but it works. Dont use a circular pattern, rub it in top to bottom or left to right till it dries then wipe it with some windex , make sure its 100% dry before playing it again.
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Senior Member
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24. December 2006 @ 06:30 |
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dilligaf, Wow, I haven't heard anybody mention the word Brasso since I last used in Vietnam back in 68, brought back some memories, anyway thanks for the info, now that I think about it, some time ago I did see one of those cd scratch removers and the consinstancy was the same as Brasso.
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rick5446
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. December 2006 @ 08:10 |
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U might try dishwashing licquid also
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Senior Member
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24. December 2006 @ 08:17 |
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I do use dishwashing liquid to clean my disc's but for scrathes you need to go to the other.
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ArnoldZ
Newbie
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25. December 2006 @ 10:34 |
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Why are the inner halographic numbers different and or lacking on the Windata disc as compared to a genuine Verbatim disc?
For additional 4 bucks, I'd take Verbatim's 50 pack than the WinData's 50 pack. Verbatim deserve the extra 4 bucks for all those fancy holographic numbers and imprints on the inner edge.
But both are better than Memorex's
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