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Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. July 2007 @ 07:30 |
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No problem. The stock cooler's relatively effective when the fan's up high, but good god it's noisy.
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Senior Member
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3. July 2007 @ 12:42 |
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So do you think it would be nessessary for me to get the Zalman cooler and replace the tec cooler with it? Would it make a difference?
Thanks
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. July 2007 @ 12:57 |
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I'd recommend doing it if you can.
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19. July 2007 @ 09:36 |
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Hi,
I also got this card since I'm also stuck with AGP and am tired of bad performance.
Anyways, after weeks of waiting for parts and messing around with the PSU and GPUs etc. etc. I finally got it working.
Well, after attaching the cooler tight enough and adding AS5, because before I did that the whole system would just turn off after seconds of starting.
But now I got it working and I tried BF2142 at Medium to Low settings (just 1024x768 with no AA and AF) and it is disappointing.
I could only get 30-40 fps and it would drop dramatically below that, still playing in Single Player Mode.
I mean, my previous ASUS nVidia GeForce 6800XT (128mb AGP) could do that, the only difference is that the X1950XT didn't stutter as much and has slightly more frames.
Now I thought it's probably the heat, because right now with just using FireFox, Everest shows the GPU is 68C and I noticed it goes up to or over 80C during BF2142.
The rest of the parts and the case are cooled well, that's not the problem for sure.
So is it the heat making the card perform bad?
I've seen someone else doing the same "mod" saying he got the card to go from 50C to 40C when idle:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030990942
I'm sure it helps because I got it to work while it didn't even start completely before this change, but it still seems too hot.
And should I get something like a Zalman VGA-cooler like these?:
http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=192&code=013
http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=215&code=013
Or will this one work well too, or should I get one with a fan?:
http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=278&code=013
Or isn't this possible and/or will I break the card somehow?
Sorry for this long message, but I'm pissed it won't work for the money I put into it just to play some freaking games.
Please help me out.
GreetZ
- Damage Inc.
PS:
Where can I find the fan-control I've been reading about?
They turn, but maybe I can turn them up.
I can't find any fan-controls in the Catalyst Control Center, but then I'm also new to ATi-cards.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. July 2007 @ 09:38
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. July 2007 @ 11:08 |
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The heat's fine, what processor and RAM do you have? If you still have AGP, they're likely to be old, and I think they're posing more of a problem.
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19. July 2007 @ 12:00 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The heat's fine, what processor and RAM do you have? If you still have AGP, they're likely to be old, and I think they're posing more of a problem.
Really? 70 degrees when doing nothing?
Well, yeah actually the 6800XT was like 60 idle...
But I have a Pentium 4 HT 3GHz+, and the RAM is DDR SDRAM 1536MB.
It's a bit low for today's standards, should be at least 2Gb and DDR2 too.
I think the RAM can be replaced by a bit faster version of the same, but
the motherboard doesn't support much or nothing more than that.
It's not like I am short of RAM, I'm never pushing the limit.
The speeds would rather be a problem I guess.
I think most of the parts are from like 2004 or something.
By the way, I would still think it's the heat though.
The whole system would only start with the card when I tightened the cooler and added a bit more Arctic Silver.
Before that it would just shut down while not even having tested the system-memory.
And also, when I ran the Automated Clock Configuration Utility for the Overdrive, it turned off the computer again.
To me, seeming like it got too hot while testing different clock-speeds.
Could it be the PSU not having enough Watts?
I just bought the ZM500-HP because I was a Molex-connector short with my previous PSU and for more features.
But the manual for the X1950XT on some pages recommends 550W, but on the page for the system-requirements it says 450W at least.
And I'm right in between, so I don't know...
It's hard to believe though since these PSUs are also SLI-ready which would mean it can power 2 cards.
And I didn't even utilize all cables and connections included with the modular system.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. July 2007 @ 12:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. July 2007 @ 13:27 |
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What's the rating on the 12V rails? Thats what's really important.
As for the heat, it's strange you had cooler issues, but those temps are better than my X1900XT used to get, so I wouldn't worry too much. If they do prove problematic, perhaps consider a Zalman cooler for it.
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19. July 2007 @ 13:43 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
What's the rating on the 12V rails? Thats what's really important.
As for the heat, it's strange you had cooler issues, but those temps are better than my X1900XT used to get, so I wouldn't worry too much. If they do prove problematic, perhaps consider a Zalman cooler for it.
Well, it seems like the cooler was the problem after I changed the pressure.
Also because other people complained it got too hot and the cooler was too loose.
And it was pretty loose, I could just wiggle it and almost look in between the cooler and card at the point of the core.
But I'm sorry, what do you mean by the rating on the 12V rails?
Btw, I just removed the latest drivers etc. I got from the ATi-website.
Instead I though I'd just use the Software-CD includes and it already installed way more than I downloaded from the ATi-website.
And it also showed more things/features which are a bit hard to name.
I know you have to keep everything updated, which I do usually, but the disc's software seems to be better.
Even though it performs the same...
I also have to say that in both cases, before installing the software, it gave me a warning that it's something like "not Windows-logo certified" or something.
That I should only use products made for Windows and I could continue or stop the setup.
But I don't think it should be a problem right?
AND, I also couldn't really verify the installation as shown in the manual.
That it should read 'ATI T200 Unified AVStream Driver' under 'Sound, video and game controllers' in the Device Manager.
I do however see 'Radeon X1950 Series' and 'Radeon X1950 Series Secondary' under "Monitor Adapters" or something similar.
Because I have it in Dutch, I don't know all the exact English translations in Windows.
But might that also be the difference, that it's in Dutch and it will show different so I CAN verify the installation?
Still it seems too different and something might be wrong.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. July 2007 @ 14:28
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Senior Member
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19. July 2007 @ 15:06 |
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Yea, to all who were wonduring, I got my card today, x1950xt, and the first thing I did (before even putting it into the computer to see how it ran) was I removed the TEC cooler, put on some AS5 and tightened to the farthest it will go...
THen I got everything installed, and installed the drivers from the web site, not the cd which was a bad idea... I play bf2 at a shi**y 12fps with the website drivers, and I am currently installed the drivers from the cd... Hopefully it'll make a difference.
Also, I got ATi Tool ran the little "show 3d view" thing and got a average of 549fps...
At the same time, I had rivatuner monitoring temps, and the highest mine got was to 69C or about 156F. (But I have a huge fan blowing on it the whole time...)
Is that to high?
Right now at idle temps the core is running at 40.12C according to rivatuner, with a 39.75C case temp...
Hope that info helps!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. July 2007 @ 15:08
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. July 2007 @ 15:11 |
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Those temps are actually really good, similar to mine.
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19. July 2007 @ 15:13 |
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40 when idle is good, mine is 70 right now, doing nothing but running Firefox and all the other standard things.
While I also corrected the cooler and added AS5 like here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030990942
But be sure you have at least 1 fan blowing in cool air and 1 or 2 blowing out acting like exhausts.
That's how I have it, plus the PSU blowing out and fans on the CPU and CPU themselves.
Be sure to not put the BF-settings too high, you could get like 30-40 fps at Medium to Low settings like I can right now.
Even though I could already do that with the 6800XT, but this card should be capable of (almost) full settings.
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Senior Member
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19. July 2007 @ 17:14 |
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Yea, its real weird... I was playing BF2 single player (dalian plant, 16 player) i got about 30-40fps, with medium/high settings, 2x AA and 1024x768..
Now heres the weird part. I went online to play some Sharqi 64 player map, and got only low 20s fps... and that was after I had modified myu settings to be mostly low...
I have no idea why the fps are so low... I wanted to get like 45-60fps, but I guess not.
Could it be the drivers??? I have catalyst 6.12 drivers.... (from cd)
Are there any better ones out there and is there a solution to why it is being that bad of a card?
Btw, it's not overheating, max temp was about 46C on BF2...
EDIT: I got a 3985 3dmark06 score.... Is that good? (ran at 1024x768)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. July 2007 @ 18:18
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. July 2007 @ 23:47 |
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I don't know whether the AGP bus is limiting, but so you know, an X1900XT with a 4200+ Dual core gets around 5500 3dmarks at 1280x1024.
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Senior Member
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20. July 2007 @ 03:33 |
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is that the PCI-e card?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. July 2007 @ 03:36 |
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Yeah, hence why I say I'm not sure on hwo much AGP is limiting performance, as far as I was aware, the difference wasn't all that much, but I could be wrong, I'll have a look around and see what sort of numbers you should be getting.
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Senior Member
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20. July 2007 @ 03:46 |
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Yea, but doesn't the PCI-e version have twice the amount of video ram? Something like 512mb right? and a faster memory clock, I think 1400 or 1600...
My card is 648/702
I ran a stress test last night and the computer crashed at 726/800 so I guess that's the limit for overclocking....
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. July 2007 @ 03:59 |
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That's not too bad, you got a reasonable amount out of it...
As for the low performance, I'll have a look when I get time, and try to figure out what the problem is.
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20. July 2007 @ 07:06 |
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I also sent a big pissed kinda message to GeCube.
But they probably won't react like they also didn't before.
I might try a Zalman cooler, see if it cools better and will also make it perform way way better.
If not I'll force the store to give me my 230 Euros back, cause it's not worth it if it only performs SLIGHTLY better than a 6800XT.
I mean, just look at the numbers and how much higher they all are:
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=441&card2=503
I previously used that 6800XT and it played BF2 and 2142 pretty ok at Medium to Low settings.
It would play Joint Operations at High to Medium settings smoothly, just occasional lower framerates depending on how many objects etc.
And I just tried the X1950XT with Joint Operations at highest settings (except resolution) which it should EASILY be able to at high fps.
But again it just shut down the computer.
It seems like I have 2 problems.
That it will probably go crazy somehow and shut down the PC, and it also performs bad.
What were you pointing out about the power before?
Maybe that's it... or one of the things...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. July 2007 @ 07:11
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. July 2007 @ 07:08 |
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Shutting down under load, and poor performance under load can both be heat related, or both power related. I'm currently thinking power related for the reason that if a card gets too hot, it usually performs ok until a sudden slowdown, following either a crash or a shut down. Without question, an X1950XT is vastly more powerful than a 6800XT.
UPDATE
As posted on a Hexus forum thread:
Quote:
Just thought you'd like to know a 3D Mark 2006 benchmark for this card:
3D Mark 2006 v1.0.2, default settings 1280x1024, noAA noAF =
Score = 6096
SM2.0 = 2260
SM3.0 + HDR = 2510
CPU = 2793
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. July 2007 @ 07:12
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Member
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20. July 2007 @ 07:16 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Shutting down under load, and poor performance under load can both be heat related, or both power related. I'm currently thinking power related for the reason that if a card gets too hot, it usually performs ok until a sudden slowdown, following either a crash or a shut down. Without question, an X1950XT is vastly more powerful than a 6800XT.
UPDATE
As posted on a Hexus forum thread:
Quote:
Just thought you'd like to know a 3D Mark 2006 benchmark for this card:
3D Mark 2006 v1.0.2, default settings 1280x1024, noAA noAF =
Score = 6096
SM2.0 = 2260
SM3.0 + HDR = 2510
CPU = 2793
Yes, and that's why it's so disappointing and strange it won't just perform well, not even on lower settings.
Would this be a good cooler too:
http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=278&code=013
Or would I really need one with a fan?
I would get this one then:
http://zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=192&code=013
And are those 3DMark results good?
I've been messing around with 3DMark but I don't know much about results etc.
Which again by the way also shut down the PC with the X1950XT, settings lowered...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. July 2007 @ 07:17
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. July 2007 @ 07:32 |
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Yeah, there's a heat problem or a Power problem. If you say you had to push the cooler in for it to work initially, perhaps the heat is causing the cooler to flex and not make good contact with the chip. if that's the case, it would explain the low performance and the shutdowns.
I note that Zalman cooler isn't certified for any of the high performance cards (or at least none of the ones that produce a lot of heat) - I recommend going with a VF900/950 to get good cooling performance.
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20. July 2007 @ 07:39 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Yeah, there's a heat problem or a Power problem. If you say you had to push the cooler in for it to work initially, perhaps the heat is causing the cooler to flex and not make good contact with the chip. if that's the case, it would explain the low performance and the shutdowns.
I note that Zalman cooler isn't certified for any of the high performance cards (or at least none of the ones that produce a lot of heat) - I recommend going with a VF900/950 to get good cooling performance.
Yeah, I did just like on this page:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030990942
Well, first I had 1 piece of tape folded, it wouldn't completely start the computer.
So I thought, maybe it's a bit lose, and I added another piece.
Then it felt more tight and as you know it did start then.
So just a heatsink type of cooler, even though it's huge, will not cool good enough in this case?
The VF-ones seem so small though, but I guess they're good, I have a similar one for my processor and I'm pretty pleased.
Where did you see a 950 actually, I don't see it.
Or weren't you sure of the number? :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. July 2007 @ 07:40
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. July 2007 @ 07:57 |
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I think there's both, but I'm not sure.
A heatsink cooler can cool that GPU, but the Zalman one just isn't good enough. a Thermalright HR-03 could do with ease, because they're much better than Zalman coolers, but there's a compatibility issue with them and the AGP X1950, which requires a bit of a Heath Robinson to cure. Therefore, a fan-assisted Zalman seems the best choice.
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20. July 2007 @ 08:10 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I think there's both, but I'm not sure.
A heatsink cooler can cool that GPU, but the Zalman one just isn't good enough. a Thermalright HR-03 could do with ease, because they're much better than Zalman coolers, but there's a compatibility issue with them and the AGP X1950, which requires a bit of a Heath Robinson to cure. Therefore, a fan-assisted Zalman seems the best choice.
Ok, I think I'll try that.
But ahm, I also read I think in that "mod"-thread, that the cooler is glued to the card and you'd have to razor it off(?) to replace it with aftermarket coolers.
I've had the cooler off obviously, but it seems like the plugs ARE glued to the card.
Should I take those off, or... would you know what to remove etc.?
Maybe I wouldn't need to use the fanmate and I could connect the fan to plugs on the card maybe?
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. July 2007 @ 08:15 |
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Glued?
This cooler is sounding more and more crap the more I hear about it. It may have been attached using thermal epoxy. I'd say it's very dangerous to remove the cooler by force, If it really isn't possible to remove the cooler and you've checked all the fittings are off, the only option I can think of is to put the fittings back, return the card and get your money back. Try and find an X1950XT without that awful cooler on it.
Edit: Ok, the Gecube cooler is the only one available for the X1950XT AGP, so perhaps you should try an RMA and hope you get one where the cooler's properly attached.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. July 2007 @ 08:19
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