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POLL - Should the law allow restoration of old records to CD/DVD?
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Prisoner
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8. September 2004 @ 14:39 |
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I did read the article yesturday. Have been talking to Wilks by PM.
The article doesn`t seem to really be fair. The major point of winning is a marketing view. But in the artilce they mention its noiser than DVD-A. So it might be exactly a VHS versus Beta issue. The better quality losses and the lower one wins on marketing and availability.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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11. September 2004 @ 22:28 |
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After reading the article myself, Prisoner, I sortof get the same impression.
Marketing (and posturing and corporate politics and copyright fear and just about every other non-audio-quality-related issue you can think of) seems to be what the article dwells on.
Either format sounds better than red book, but your vhs/beta sentiment might very well be what will eventually rule the day here. Better is not always necessarily the winner.
It's pitiful we are sill discussing this after all this time. (It's not *our* fault). Will Big Business ever get their act(s) together on this one?
-- See you next year, and we can pick up where we left off here! -- 
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Prisoner
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13. September 2004 @ 12:16 |
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What do you mean by see you next year? Are you running away or are you just commenteding that every year there has to be atleast one format war.
I remember the + vs - war, that ended with the sale of combo drives. I think that is a future that we may see more common. THere are SACD and DVD-A combo players out there as soon will be the Blu-ray and HD-DVD's I bet. Instead of format wars we might just live in a combo war. How may combo formats you can fit in one box, quality, I think they forgot about quality.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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14. September 2004 @ 12:46 |
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(Noo, noo, noooo, I'm not going anywhere).
It's just that a solid year ago, you or I or anyone else in here could mistake the posts of that period for any of the current posts - they are identical. Nothing has changed in a year.
And based on the snail-like pace the major music and hardware industries have been inching (forward?), I could return here a year hence and it would be like I had never left.
They say that technology forges ahead by leaps and bounds; that the rate of technology increases exponentially as time passes. Well, here's one case where I find technology stagnating and bogging itself down with it's own hype.
Assuming I had the money to buy truly "Universal" machines every time a potentially promising or exciting new format came out, it would be self-defeating in most cases. A universal machine cannot do everything well. It cannot specialize in it's chosen task. It cannot give me the best sound. It is a compromize. It's a matter of compatibility versus quality. And although Mass Public are music lovers, the true Audiophile Community who genuinely care very much indeed about the quality of their music, are left in the lurch. Trust me, Joe Public favors compatibility over quality any day.
Major Record Labels are paranoically fanatic about their back-catalogue copyrights, and this has led to the vast bulk of their holdings to be left moulding in storage vaults.
Since the music labels have vested interests in their own consumer electronics' divisions, it seems unlikely we will ever see an end to this particular format war, and it hurts everyone. I don't want to have to purchase a whole new machine just to play a re-released, perhaps out-of-print, treasured album I have wanted to own for a long long time, just because the album's label chooses to release it's albums in the 'other' format. That's what I mean by self- defeating, and these wars only serve to keep the labels from releasing their back catalogue. Nobody can tell me that the retail market is currently flooded with sacd and dvd-a titles, because it is not, and it's not hard to figure out why, either.
Universal machines are 'nice' for casual listening I suppose, but a single format, chosen because of it's flat-out, undeniable sonic superiority is what we truly need.
So like I say, Prisoner, I'll "See Ya Next Year!" to pick up where we left off here. By that time I'll have thrown in the towel (already have) waiting for my treasured back-albums to appear in *any* new hi-res format, and Blu-Ray will, hopefully by then, have begun to sonically bury the present formats into the ground and put the matter to rest once and for all.
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Prisoner
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14. September 2004 @ 12:55 |
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You actually think Blu-ray will solve it!! I would say that most likely it will confuse the situation and be out there with the three other Blue techs. I think there are four total Blue type discs out there. So think the format wars only get worse in the future.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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14. September 2004 @ 13:21 |
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It might not solve the issue of which format will "reign", but I just bet it will show up DSD (SACD) for what it truly is - a sonic disgrace, massively phase-shifted by Sony to suit it's own proprietary leanings.
And blu-ray's sheer data density will keep DVD-A (or whatever market share is left to it by then) on it's toes.
You know..... it's only the perennial absense of treasured back-cataloge music by those musicians I absolutely adore that keeps me harping on this accursed issue in the first place.
New, quality recordings, such as those made by Mr. Neil Wilkes of Opus Studios (you may have heard of him ), who *cares* about the quality of what he is creating, are going to be instrumental in keeping the 'faith' alive. They (these new pristine recordings) showcase just how good music *can* sound.
Sure, I am probably premature in my guesstimates, but I believe blu-ray and the very-highest level of audio fidelity, could easily go hand-in-hand if they don't botch things up like they have with current fiasco.
Offnote: Boys-oh-boys, was this originally a POLL thread ??
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Prisoner
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15. September 2004 @ 11:13 |
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I think it was a Poll thread. thats why many a moon ago I ask you with your misterious mod powers to cut this conversation out and create a new thread with the topic. but it looks to be just between the two of us anyways so there might be no need.
Wilks, I don`t know if I do know any one by that name :)
I should PM wilks about which discs he has worked on, but unfortueately I only have a SACD player and can`t play DVD-A. But would be could to know the quality ones.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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ravensol
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24. September 2004 @ 09:59 |
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I am strongly opposed to the new laws.
however, no judge could deny that if it is illegal to allow a consumer to make a back up copy - that the consumer will be entitled to a full refund from the copyright holder (not place of purchase), since it is the manufacturer (copyright holder/record companie etc) whom have provided us with faulty goods. - nearly all my disks have minor scratches caused from the lens mis reading and lifiting up causing minor scratches to the rom.
When the cd was introduced (on tomorrows world in uk) a scratch resistant cd was demonstarted but record companies etc use cheaper and softer plastics. . .
Heres a tip,
Collect and categorise all your scratched disk and sue the record companies for the cost of the disks and your court costs.
A civil suite for costs/damages doesn't cost much (if you do it yourself) and is free if on benefit...... Visit your local courthouse /CAB for information.
Also where possible (in sonys case) sue them for the cost of your playstation - as this will have caused surface scratches..
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towell
Newbie
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8. November 2004 @ 03:21 |
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This is bang out of order!!
Do companies really relise how much money they would lose if people stopped copying there software, movies and music etc. it may seem stupid but how many people would pay £300+ for some software that turns out to be uneless!
Just becuase people copyied the movie, doesn't mean to say they'd have went to see the movie at the cinema if they couldn't watch the copy.
If the movie industry released quality movies and not cheap, rushed crap then people would pay good money to see it... they've got to understand... some people arn't in the position to pay to watch there movies... wether then want to or not... alot of us are jobless or working minumum wage under this goverment.
A lot (if not the marjority of my fiends and associate's that I know only know how to use MSN messanger and download a mp3! meaning... all these people would have no use for a compomputer thefore would not purchase one!!...
Who'd want to pay the £30 pound a month for the internet if the ISP is issing information that is goin to get your front door kicked in.
Who wants a CD/DVD copier when this get's kicked into action.... ? are they going to stop stores selling the DVD stand alone recorders? there just as easy as using a computer?
If mp3's, movies etc were to magically be whiped from the internet... i'd say so would 75% of the user's... I wouldn't want a 1.5mb line to view webpages? and download demo's!! :P
I think the goverment's just devastated they cant TAX the Internet!!!!!
The internet is only as big as it is today because of companies like Napster!! once the goverment relise this... the better!!
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Senior Member
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5. December 2004 @ 10:22 |
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Nay.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. December 2004 @ 13:28 |
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Totally opposed....signed petition. There's only 170 sigs though!!! C'mon, people!
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daemonzx6
Senior Member
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24. December 2004 @ 18:18 |
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I just signed and I was only #172
more people need to sign this
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mattF099
Junior Member
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30. December 2004 @ 20:25 |
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Welcome to consertive america - its a bitch. I belive that the entire copyright protection situation is out of hand but those who are apposed are seen as the piraters that '"MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS!"scarcasm'. So its up to somebody who has never even opened kazaa or Azureus to judge someone who has and finacally devistate them. The recording artists and movie studios are actually suing more than creating because its more profatable. Its time for reform.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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1. January 2005 @ 17:29 |
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i signed on late too! It makes you wonder where the spirit of free thinking people haave gone. I think that conservativism is out of control and that we've allowed ourselves to placed in the hands of propagandizing fear mongers. So come on people of the world let's sign.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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mattF099
Junior Member
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3. January 2005 @ 17:38 |
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well put
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johnliner
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2. February 2005 @ 11:59 |
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It is difficult to articulate just how strongly I am opposed to this, and other efforts by RIAA and MPAA and the industry in general. They've gone far beyond merely trying to protect "intellectual rights" and are stepping into the area of privacy and free speech rights. When laws are passed allowing law enforcement and governmental agencies to enter your home, confiscate property and arrest individuals just for making copies of media that you already own-it is time to start watching out!
If I copy a page from a book, a song from a record/tape/cd because I think it is significant or worthy of passing on to someone else, that is a part of my right to free speech. Conversely, I believe entering your home and confiscating same is a form of censorship, and certainly a dangerous new form of bullying and oppression by powerful private entities.
The ironic part of all this is that the artists, writers and creators do not benefit from any of this. Sonic Rock Band and Mary Guitar Plater does not reap one single cent more. The corporations, however, are up in arms because their already bloated profits are affected. Will copying CD's and DVD's drive them out of business? Hardly. When a "superstar" can command several tens of millions in salaries for just a single film, and even TV actors receive more than a million dollars for just 18 minutes worth of acting per episode, I don't think the "bottom line" is in jeopardy.
But that's beside the point and probably a topic for an economic discussion. The idea that law forces can forcibly enter my home because I made a backup copy of something I'd like to keep is frightening.
Have they kicked in any doors yet, rousted families in the middle of the night? No, not hardly. Will they soon? Doubtful. Could they, after passage of these kinds of laws, coupled with recent court successes? Absolutely! When individuals are bullied and harrassed, either legally or otherwise, it makes me extremely nervous. It is even more unsettling that this time, it is not governments that are the prime movers, but private industries.
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid. Histories Hitlers, Mussolinis Idi Amins, Husseins etc etc, bad as they are, are at least to be periodically expected. But when corporations start suing, arresting and even entertaining thoughts of forcibly entering homes??
Tends to give one pause, doesn't it?
Like I said, maybe it's just healthy paranoia, but I've spent a lifetime travelling and working around the world. Been to 60 countries, seen all kinds of governments, and I think I've come by my paranoia honestly.
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johnliner
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2. February 2005 @ 12:12 |
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And, in the interest of thoroughly flogging a subject, here's what one individual I know used to do, as a form of low-level guerrilla warfare.
This person had a rather alrge collection of vinyl, some pretty good stuff, mainly blues but also a lot of good 60's rock. When RIAA started suing kids and grammas, this individual started leaving a trail of CD's, copies of stuff from the collection, as well as downloads, in his wake as he travelled thru airports, train stations, taxis. Probably a lot was toseed out, but perhaps for every 10 that was disposed, maybe one was kept and listened to by an enthusiast in Eastern Europe, Asia, or...
Throwing shit against the tide? Probably. But if that sort of warfare enlightened just one Uzbeki to Delta Blues music or Southern rock, well, maybe it's worth leaving a string of 40 cent plastic "breadcrumbs" in your wake.
RIAA and MPAA are in it for the money and I don't begrudge them. After all, business is in the business of making money (oh, that was brilliant). But, there is an awful lot of music, spoken and written words out there that were created for good reason, other than money.
Or maybe I'm just fulla crap....
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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3. February 2005 @ 03:15 |
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Quote:
It is even more unsettling that this time, it is not governments that are the prime movers, but private industries.
Who can say? It's like that age-old question - "which came first - the chicken or the egg?". It's anyone's guess who achieved corrupted morality first, BUT they are *both* as guilty as sin. They both have tons of blood on their hands.
We already know that the RIAA and MPAA are among the most corrupt organizations ever devised, but the endless free amnesty that governments seem to enjoy as (supposed) trustees of the public faith/interest, is not only nearly-unchallenged-enough, it is also heart-breaking.
It's also maddening. Sooner or later something's gotta give. One day, they're going to go too far ...
Government officials - those in high office - the ones that control and affect our everyday lives, can be, and ofter are, bought and sold by corporations that have the bottomless wells of cash to do so. Ain't nothing new.
Welcome to the 21st century.
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Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid.
Maybe, but I doubt it. You sound like more of a realist.
The Norwegian Supreme Court how now ruled that if you have a website which (even inadvertantly) links to another website which, in turn, may or may not have vaguely linked to someone else containing a link to a copyrighted .mp3 file (confused yet?), you will be publicly beheaded and your remains auctioned off on eBay.
See my post here : http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/153622
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It is difficult to articulate just how strongly I am opposed to this and other efforts by RIAA & MPAA and the industry in general.
You're doing what you can. We ALL need to voice our concerns wherever and whenever we can. I know it must sound like a dumb cliche, but sometimes the oldest sayings hold the most water - "education is the key". (Christ - I sound like one of my old high-school teachers) :-) But knowledge really IS power! It is important we keep on top of what the RIAA/MPAA industry is continually trying to shove down our throats.
Did you know, johnliner, that the MPAA is now attempting to entice *you* (and me, and ...) to actively POLICE the internet for them? As unpaid employees, (but 'concerned' citizens) the motion-picture industry is actually DUMB enough to think we lowly idiots-of-the-internet will do their dirty work for them.
For the latest bullshit MPAA scam, see this thread, and my gut reaction to it:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/153146
Rather ballsy and naieve of them, don'cha think?
In regards to the many, Heavily Payola-ed government representatives, I wish I could "name names". I wish I could be more specific. But I value my continued ability to breathe efficiently, and you never know when my door might get kicked-in and I receive a brass-knuckled visit from a representative from either of the acclaimed above-named Monopolies.
'Brave New World', eh johnliner ?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. February 2005 @ 03:58
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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16. September 2011 @ 16:11 |
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The law serves no constructive purpose. I am against this law and many other non-sense laws.
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