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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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17. August 2010 @ 15:59 |
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Not for a long time yet, the HD6 series would have to have been long prevalent, and in that case, buy one of those.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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17. August 2010 @ 16:17 |
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Mmmm, indeed. Sucks to be poor :( LOL!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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17. August 2010 @ 19:34 |
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YOU DON'T KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD POOR!! (Did you ever get those metal fragments out of your transmission? LOL)
Originally posted by boozer from 29 July:
Still writing essays I see :p
(He meant - NOT!)
Originally posted by ddp from 29 July:
you can say that again as i did not threaten him. i'm innocent!!!!
hahahaha
That was in regard to a prior post - like the only thing that would finally get me to upgrade was the threat of being banned from the forum, lol. (and by the way, what happened to that scary looking animated skeleton sig of yours - or was that somebody else?)
Originally posted by sam:
9 years ago was when Asus made their name by building stuff that actually lasted. Nobody would buy Asus products at all if their products were as shabby then as they are now. What they've done is build a reputation on building quality products, slashed costs by cutting corners wherever possible, and letting their past reputation soak up the damage.
"Soak up the damage." That is a powerful indictment! I'm wondering if a lot of things work like that - "resting on their laurels" is a phrase that one hears a lot of.
Wow! I broke my gaming fast - jumped on Condition Zero on my desktop business computer finally - I couldn't stand not gaming for so long. What followed then was about 29 hours of gameplay on expert against the bots - finally was kicking their asses pretty good and jumped on regular Counter-Strike 1.6 (condition zero) and played against a whole team of Shaff's and got WASTED! Hahahaha!
But compared to my gaming rig, the monitor is an old 17" crt, with only 1280x1024 resolution. Very hard to see the bastards on the other side of the map!
So, I decided to remove all local content from my business desktop, to avoid the temptation, and only play on my main rig with the bright 30" 2560x1600. I can't just jump on the main rig, which shares a table with another LCD monitor that I use for everyday phone calls. I have to give more thought into a gaming session, which requires me to go through the whole hassle of rotating the little trailer table around on the metal post it sits on, and moving some of the cables.
My new idea is one gaming weekend a month, starting on the first Friday of the month. Anyway, those CS die hard guys are way too good for me - they're all on shaff's skill level - but at least the extra resolution and more screen space will help whenever I jump on CS again. That's why I like the idea of a whole weekend - I can cram about 30 hours in over the three days, and cover CS, Left 4 Dead, and when I finally upgrade I can finish Hells Highway.
By the way, I did mention to Miles when we saw Inception, that one day I have to take one of his 2 old towers, like he mentioned. He laughed. "Yeah they're just sitting out there in the garage." But I'm serious. I'll just tell him one day - "Ok, dude, it's time for you to give me one of those towers before ddp bans me!" :P
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MafiaII (nvidia bias: 25% for DX10 cards, 35% for DX11 cards).
Frame rate limit enforced on ATI hardware via PhysX crippling if APEX mode set to anything but off (biasing up to 320%)
Amazing review of three games, Sam. "Might as well come with an nvidia-only sticker." Wow. To hell with that Mafia game! "Arma II belongs in the chart of needlessly demanding games." No Arma for me either, lol.
Originally posted by sam:
Of course, that is why nvidia have coded PhysX so if it detects it's being run on a CPU, it limits it to using 0.4-0.5 cores, no matter how good your CPU is, thus causing CPU PhysX to be impossibly laggy on any system. There's no reason for it, it's just another reason why nvidia are a corrupt organisation.
It's official: Adolf Hitler is alive and doing well as nvidia marketing manager - remember, green is the color of puke.
Originally posted by sam back to shaff:
You could perversely argue that because such a vast quantity of games are biased nowadays that that effectively means the geforces are better simply by default, but given the fact that almost none of the games I play on a regular basis are biased, that's not something I'm going to concede.
Like I said, to hell with that mafia game.
Good points Sam, and Shaff. It all comes down to the games that one plays regularly. It reminds me of product placement in movies. Nvidia has the money to create "product placement" in video games, by, as Sam mentions, bribing developers. I guess the most famous example of that is Crysis.
Regarding nvidia's tweaking of the physx programming to limit the amount of cpu load - when they detect that physx is running on the cpu - that does certainly seem a bit more than just "product placement" and more like plain and simple dirty pool - why do I keep being reminded of the way the Nazis took over post WWI Germany?
Well, I certainly will try to support ATI all I can - no reason to let the Nazis gain complete control and attempt world domination again. (Rich sees life through WWII glasses, lol.)
Originally posted by estuansis:
Oh yeah, just hit 80 hours of Battlefield Bad Company 2. Man do I love that game. Where have you been all my life? lol
Man, Jeff, that's what I am talking about. What was I thinking throwing 29 hours away on Condition Zero, on my non-gaming business computer with 17" crt? Haha.
(I'll bend Miles' arm before the end of the year and you'll see me above 10,000 3dmark6 points by end of January, maybe.)
Originally posted by sam on Aug 13:
The funny thing is, having had a long and hard think about it last night, running an SLI system for my next upgrade actually makes a lot of sense. Yes, it's capitulation to the corrupt organisation I've been trying to avoid, but on all other points:
Wow! Now that is definitely not fan boy thinking!
Pretty courageous analysis - I DO see your point. Shaff's arguments have gained some ground.
Originally posted by Estuansis:
You do remember that Nvidia kills image quality to gain FPS right? After seeing the horror that is Metro 2033 on an Nvidia card, I don't think I will ever buy an Nvidia again. That and considering that Nvidia holds the lead in so many games literally due to bribes? I refuse to buy them as a matter of principle.
Jeff does not like the new Sam "hard think" one bit. I too feel pretty much the same way - do we want the greenies to achieve world domination?
On the other hand - some games just won't run on Ati hardware - and everything will run on nvidia hardware! Goddamn those nazis!!!
DXR weighs in:
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its been known since the days of the Geforce 1,2,3 and 4 series that the nvidia drivers silently kill picture quality to gain FPS
many found out about it when FarCry hit shelves it was so bad you could see the rainbow effect fly off the walls in an intensive scene.
And sam brings us up to date:
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It was long truth, until the GTX200 series, and since then, with the exception of Metro 2033, I've not been able to verify a single case of it.
Originally posted by ddp on aug 12th:
i'm innocent!!!!!
Hahaha! Now what are you innocent about? Sounds like a guilty conscience to me, you might as well ban shaff again. :P
Originally posted by omega:
I've seen pictures comparing Nvidia and Ati before. I really couldn't tell the difference. Not that I'm siding either way. Fact of the mater is, taking a still shot of graphics doesn't always illustrate a point too well. Now a video clip...that's another story. I'm not liking what I'm hearing about nvidia. I've heard it all before, but now it's really sinking in. What's funny though, is the tables could turn one year from now. Funny how the tides change. I guess the only way I'm gonna see it for myself, is to take a chance. Buy an ati next time. The reason I didn't last time, is because the Drivers at the time, were extremely dire. As bad as Nvidia is being mouthed right now, ati's drivers were being mouthed at that time :p
Remember, I'm a completely neutral party. Believe it, or not...
We believe you Kevin. It's interesting that in the give and take of the last few weeks, you mention that "it's really sinking in" regarding things you've heard before that you don't like about nvidia.
Originally posted by dxr on probable cost of 6870:
probably around $680+ or you could pay them in body parts Right eye, left testicle, 1 kidney and your left hand.
Not so fast! That was sounding tempting until I figured out that wasd won't work worth sh*t if I have to keep taking hand off mouse - sorry not interested! :D
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. August 2010 @ 19:39
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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17. August 2010 @ 19:39 |
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Skeleton sig was Nephilim, Rich, not ddp :P Never seen ddp with an animated sig, just Nephilim and Creaky.
Asus are far from alone in that quality exploit. Sony and Mercedes-Benz are two other prime examples in other fields.
You cite Crysis as an example of nvidia bias - it was to start with, but actually, save multi-GPU scaling, is effectively neutral now and has been for a long time. The game's legendary status for being needlessly demanding means so much focus has gone into ATI's drivers that all the bias that may have been present has been overcome. Crossfire scaling though, not so much. It's not terrible, but SLI still leads.
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. August 2010 @ 19:55 |
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playing the mafia II demo, and loving it. though playing on the ps3. might end up buying this for ps3, (due to its nvidia chip) over dlding it for the 360. i would like to get it on PC though, the lack of decent (or any) AA is REALLY REALLY annoying. going to dld the PC demo and see how it runs.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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17. August 2010 @ 20:02 |
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Crossfire scaling has improved a bit in Crysis. As far as I've seen my 5850s are enough to max it at 1920 x 1200 with 45+FPS at almost all times. Nvidia still has a slight bias for sure but the gap has closed considerably. Warhead is still much more demanding(around maybe 40 average) but dual 5850s help keep the averages up even in more CPU limited situations. The game is still needlessly demanding but it seems the better it runs the better it looks XD
Also hell yes I know what it means to be poor. And a hearty "LOL" to you if you don't believe me.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. August 2010 @ 21:30
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ddp
Moderator
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17. August 2010 @ 22:00 |
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harvrdguy, never had a sig as what i wanted would be to big & you know how i am about sig sizes.
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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17. August 2010 @ 22:06 |
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Originally posted by shaffaaf:
playing the mafia II demo, and loving it. though playing on the ps3. might end up buying this for ps3, (due to its nvidia chip) over dlding it for the 360. i would like to get it on PC though, the lack of decent (or any) AA is REALLY REALLY annoying. going to dld the PC demo and see how it runs.
runs awesome just don't turn on physX
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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17. August 2010 @ 22:21 |
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Originally posted by sam:
Never seen ddp with an animated sig, just Nephilim and Creaky
. Oh, right! I was thinking later that maybe it was loco - but for sure it was creaky! That weird animated skeleton sig of his - very strange - does he still use it?
Originally posted by sam:
You cite Crysis as an example of nvidia bias - it was to start with, but actually, save multi-GPU scaling, is effectively neutral now and has been for a long time. The game's legendary status for being needlessly demanding means so much focus has gone into ATI's drivers that all the bias that may have been present has been overcome. Crossfire scaling though, not so much. It's not terrible, but SLI still leads.
Good for Ati's drivers. Then the only ultimate truth about Crysis - correct me if I am wrong - is that, unlike Warhead, it will not support a 4th gpu. So in other words, Crysis would benefit from a 5870 coupled with a 5970 - am I right?
Originally posted by shaff:
playing the mafia II demo, and loving it.
Hmmm. Well, if a hard-core fps'er like shaff likes the mafia game - I shouldn't write it off so quick. Is it another GTAIV? What's the take on it. Jeff - have you tried it? Kevin?
Originally posted by ddp:
harvrdguy, never had a sig as what i wanted would be to big & you know how i am about sig sizes.
hahaha - yeah I was thinking of creaky's really "creepy" sig, lol. Well, actually I have never had a sig either, so I've never been scolded about overdoing it - but I DO remember about language issues with somebody whose name starts with "sh" but I can't remember who that is right now. :P
Rich
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ddp
Moderator
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17. August 2010 @ 22:29 |
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i'll believe you when 1000's wouldn't on the last statement.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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18. August 2010 @ 00:45 |
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No. My transmission can go to H3ll LOL! I've still only drained it and refilled it(with new filter). Almost instantaneously, it was worse. I plan on driving it into the dirt. Saving my money for a newer vehicle. I've found if I pay very close attention to what the speed sensor is doing, I can avoid problems, where I have to reset the computer brain(shut it off and restart the engine). Suffice to say, the car is doomed, and I refuse to be nickel and dimed ;)
I'm a little slow about things sinking in sometimes. Selective memory :p
Never played "The mafia game"
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2010 @ 00:46
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. August 2010 @ 03:09 |
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That's right Rich, crysis is limited to 3 gpus not four, as when it came out nvidia weren't doing quad sli.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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18. August 2010 @ 19:48 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
i'll believe you when 1000's wouldn't on the last statement
hahaha - 1000's wouldn't believe me regarding: 1. I haven't been scolded yet? (actually I think I recall Binkie telling me to "watch it" one time) 2. I remember language issues? ... Or, 3. I can't figure out who "sh" is? LOL
Originally posted by omega:
No. My transmission can go to H3ll LOL!
Oh oh, ddp, more potential language issues :P
Originally posted by omega:
I've still only drained it and refilled it (with new filter). Almost instantaneously, it was worse. I plan on driving it into the dirt.
Hahaha. Sorry for laughing, Kevin - you must have loosened up some REALLY thick sludge on the inside. Yeah, just watch that speed sensor, and wait until it throws a rod through the head!
Originally posted by sam:
That's right Rich, crysis is limited to 3 gpus not four, as when it came out nvidia weren't doing quad sli.
Well, that shows them! That was one bit of sneaky "product placement" that didn't turn out to work so well (it kind of worked for a few years, lol, but the game was so overpowered, even triple sli wouldn't run it at highest settings with the nvidia cards of 2007, haha!)
Rich
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18. August 2010 @ 21:32 |
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mafia 2 demo on the PC.
Q6600 at 3.3 currently, stock GPU clocks with a single 512MB 4870 and im getting 40 FPS avg with the benchmark. fully maxed out without apex (1920x1200). happy with that. while playing the demo i mostly see 45-55 aswell.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 06:31 |
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Must be a reduced detail setting then, or a different part of the game, as the benchmark indicates a single HD4870 gets an average of 27fps with a minimum of 19, at 1920x1080, without APEX.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 07:03 |
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http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=982
Holy cow this is interesting.
BFG tried to sell ATI cards without becoming an ATI partner, buying wholesale products and having them manufactured by a third party, with a BFG label applied.
Needless to say, when ATI got wind of that they weren't impressed, and blocked them from selling the cards unless they became an ATI partner.
I imagine nvidia would have sued them into the ground if they tried to become an ATI partner. That's an astonishing bit of news. Gets me guessing if it had anything to do with BFG's demise as a graphics producer.
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. August 2010 @ 07:52 |
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ill screen shot it when i get back on the pc. Minimum in single digits but when playing the game it was very smooth, didn't feel any
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 08:03 |
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You didn't feel single digit frame rates being laggy? Lol
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 13:16 |
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45-50 is what i got on my 5770, however i purposely piled up cars and got a semi truck shot the gas tank twice and my frames took a dip into the yellow around 18FPS and didn't even notice it didn't feel like 18. with Apex on my frame rates where constantly in the yellow 24~10 sometimes into the red from 10~1 during car pile up explosions.
in all honesty i didn't see a difference in Graphics or Physical interaction between Apex being on and it being off. the hood caps fly off the same the bad guys hit the ground the same. no Light contained in a volume, no godrays not even more realistic smoke volume.
its like i hadn't turned it on at all.
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 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2010 @ 13:24
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. August 2010 @ 13:45 |
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nop dont feel the "lag"
it only shows single digit minimums on the bench. who knows how accurate that is.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 13:50 |
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DX11 seems to have a big impact on the test as far as I can see, as the HD5830 would normally score 30% above an HD4870, but in Mafia 2 while it gets the same 30% boost for minimums, it scores 75% higher for averages.
Like DXR, gameGPU note that APEX is of little effect graphically, much like most implementations of PhysX. GameGPU have produced a bench for the Lost Planet 2 beta, this should be interesting. My PC can't even play the first one properly yet :P
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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19. August 2010 @ 20:30 |
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So all you guys playing this Mafia demo - shaff, dxr, sam - is it any good? Is it another GTAIV - what kind of a game is it?
From what DXR said I guess you have a lot of cars crashing together - and ...?
Where's Estuansis with one of his great game reviews?
I noticed Crysis 2 coming next spring - set in New York City - CryEngine 3 - how stressful is that game going to be? And I noticed Medal of Honor coming out pretty soon about the War in Afghanistan - the multiplayer video looked pretty good - how does anybody feel about how it will compare with BC/2?
UPGRADE THIS YEAR, MAYBE
Miles the animator dude actually stopped by yesterday for about 10 minutes for the first time in years - he found himself in South Orange County on business - he lives in LA. I showed him my gaming/business trailer. He mentioned that I should pick up his "broken" tower the next time I came up - the one with the 9450/9550 (he can't remember which) and the Rampage board.
"BROKEN"
Now I remember - it started acting up - so the tech guys told him that they had been having probs with that motherboard, and they just shipped him the i7 tower that he's using now.
Well, I'll have a go at it and see if I can fix it. Miles is an animator whiz, but he's not into hardware. I might take it over to Mo's place and put it up on his bench while we chat - he probably can slip a spare used 775 mobo in it to help me see if the rest of the rig works: psu, cpu, memory, etc.
DDP is pressuring me to have at least 10,000 3dmark6 points by end of January :P
Hey Sam, I mentioned to Miles that you had posted about playing Alien Swarm, where you noted a few weeks ago that the game needed more content. Miles had been animating that game - remember a long time ago that I said I couldn't say much but I saw him working on a top-down coop? Anyway, Miles told me that the decision to release it for free might have been a mistake - he said everybody LOVES the game. So I suggested that Valve think about releasing a $9.99 expansion pack.
Anyway, I didn't think much of it when I saw him working on it (come to think of it, I didn't think much of Left 4 Dead in development either - I sure can pick 'em, right?) but now I'll definitely have to download it and check it out on my gaming weekend.
Rich
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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19. August 2010 @ 22:59 |
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its not in any way like GTAIV, mafia is more mature and not to mention the story is much better. if you haven't played the original mafia you should it was a great game on its own.
one of the things i like about mafia 2 is that they added a simulation style to the cars mechanics you can feel the power as your 57 chevy spins out of control, or those long car drives leave your gas tank empty or when you can stop the enemy with a well placed shot to the gas tank it wont blow them up, but they'll run outta gas soon enough.
Classic cars,dark gritty storyline, and playboy center folds ready to collect. i like it all but you might not, grab the demo play it yourself.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. August 2010 @ 07:31 |
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I've not played the game myself, I just posted a benchmark result. It sounds a lot like another game that can wait until I get a graphics upgrade. Games that I'm not losing out by not playing multiplayer I will treat as single player games, and SP games can wait until I can play them smoothly on high detail. Judging from the benchmark, Mafia 2 is certainly going to be on the waiting list.
Crysis 2 is seeing a console release I believe, so it will be more scaleable than the previous Crysis games. However, they were already pretty scaleable by comparison to most games. I'd imagine that maxing the game out would still be a bit more demanding. A few games have surpassed Crysis in different areas of hardware demands, so Crysis 2 could potentially put the series back at the top of the list.
An Asus board with problems, go figure! lol - if it already has a GPU in it, a new board swap-in should work fine, assuming it is the board that's at fault. No need to spend anywhere near as much as the Rampage.
I'd say personally that Alien Swarm is considerably more demanding than the Left 4 Dead games, I'd imagine the most demanding game Valve have released. Whether that's due to some dodgy code they'll fix later or if it is a genuinely demanding title, I'm not sure. Either way it gets pretty laggy on high settings on both my Q9550/HD4870X2x2 system and my friend's i5 750/HD5870 system. Disabling AA seems to have little effect on the frame rate, so we're thinking it's perhaps a CPU issue. Not promising for your P4 I'm afraid.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. August 2010 @ 17:54 |
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Originally posted by dxr:
Classic cars,dark gritty storyline, and playboy center folds ready to collect. i like it all but you might not, grab the demo play it yourself.
Nice review - I never heard of the first one - I WILL check it out some day, thanks.
Yeah, Sam, they say that Crysis 2 will hit xbox and ps3, as well as PC.
Quote:
An Asus board with problems, go figure! lol - if it already has a GPU in it, a new board swap-in should work fine, assuming it is the board that's at fault. No need to spend anywhere near as much as the Rampage.
Hahaha. Asus is now living up to its new bad rep, huh?
Yes, it has a graphics card with it - I think he had mentioned originally, a few months ago, something about an 8800. How would that stack up versus the 500 mb 3850 I have right now, just out of curiousity?
In terms of isolating just the motherboard, I have my old p4 3.2 ghz 775 to test it with, and a really old but working pci video card (my info says the rampage has two pci slots) from an ancient 200mhz that I keep under my test bench table for whatever. If I can prove that it is definitely just a bad motherboard - then I'll be asking for mobo advice, and later, how soon I should upgrade the nvidia card depending on my finances.
Well I guess I won't be doing much playing of alien swarm - maybe just a quick look-see at low res since Miles did a little work on it (like I say I was wayyyy not impressed when I saw what he was working on, but me being unimpressed during development is now almost a certain sign that the game is great, lol.)
Valve picked up the game when they brought a new guy on board, decided to work on it, then changed their minds and decided to give it away for free, and as I mentioned before, now Miles says that people LOVE it. Do you like it Sam?
The fact that it is a power hog for what you get, may indeed be the result of lack of the normal optimization that Valve would have done to the product, to maximize the ability to run on weaker platforms.
(By the way I don't think I'm breaking any rules - I certainly hope not - by recounting that one of the guys responsible for the gorgeous facial models on the movie Avatar recently joined the good folks up there in Seattle, so we should ultimately see the benefit of that on future Valve releases.)
Rich
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