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The Official GT4 Thread
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shoaib1
Newbie
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28. April 2005 @ 07:03 |
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I agree with Kingsizer. Dont Be selfish
Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer
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ricky4
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. April 2005 @ 07:07 |
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@Kingsiger and all swapmagic users
I agree with your take care os magic swap users...I'm one of them.
Could you confirm me a dvd DL copy of GT4 with swap magic doesn't work?
Thanks!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. April 2005 @ 07:09
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MNcordia
Newbie
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28. April 2005 @ 07:42 |
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i've been trying to follow this thread since page 6-8, but it grows so much when i'm not on that i miss some stuff.
what was the difference in layer 1 and layer 0? i thought i read that they were the exact same in an editor only one was somewhat bigger.
would one be able to just burn the smaller of the two?
correct me if i'm wrong. i may have missed something.
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RemyK313
Member
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28. April 2005 @ 08:15 |
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No DL media will work with Swap Magic. SMD will read the first layer and record that as the TOC size. In other words, it can't recognize the second layer, just like some HD programs can't understand calls to the second layer (which is why the images need to be flattened).
Dasha74 is currently working on looking at both the flash code in the Actel board that the DMS4 uses to try and figure out exactly what the Toxic BIOS is doing. Also, he's giving the new HDAdvance a look at.
A DVD5 solution will not become available to Swap Magic users until the table in the CORE file becomes decrypted. Once again, this is NOT a programming task, so stop talking about it. It has to deal with encryption, and unfortunately, not every programmer is good with decryption (Actually, most never work on encryption, EVER in their programming courses)
However, if you're talking about a program to be loaded off a DVD9 with Swap Magic, I actually don't know the feasability of that. It would require knowing how to trick Swap Magic into accepting it, and then writing a loader that could work with DVD loader, possibly a patch that people can make. But still, it's an insane mess of a matter to even be considering.
For now, let's just hope someone can decrypt the table :)
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bigsnack
Newbie
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28. April 2005 @ 08:19 |
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I'm stating the obvious, but my 1:1 copy I burned through DVD Decrypter worked like a charm!
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sharky22
Suspended permanently
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28. April 2005 @ 09:37 |
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whats the best patch making software for ps2?
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samuels
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28. April 2005 @ 11:32 |
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@sharky22
"so from wat i can establish here, the only problem now about getting it to work on DVD9 with swap magic is the PTP/OTP problem. this is by-passed by some MOD chips allowing the console to read OTP, correct? would it be possible to extract the data from the MOD chip and incorporate this into a program that you load with swap magic, and then load the game... same idea as cogswap; or is it the actual hardware of the MOD chip that allows the OTP read function?"
check the top of this page, i already suggested this, apperently its the firmware that does the trick[Quote]
iv'e said it before and i'll say it again...this OTP/PTP is not the issue here.unless the NTSC version is written different to PAL. read the specs from decrypter properly...
Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Book Type: DVD-ROM
Part Version: 1
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: 10.08Mbps
Number of Layers: 2
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)(****take note****)from original disc
Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 1,819,007
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0
Layer Information:
Layer 0 Sectors: 1,622,400 (58.7%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,141,536 (41.3%)
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samuels
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28. April 2005 @ 11:36 |
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now unless your talking about burning back the ISO to dual layer it might change to OTP...how and why,i don't know,i'll pull out a non working back up of GT4 and have a look.
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jzuijlek
Newbie
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28. April 2005 @ 11:40 |
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@samuels: You don't get it. The original disc is PTP, as stated by the dvddecrypter log you posted, but DL burnable media is OTP.
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Senior Member
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28. April 2005 @ 12:11 |
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Am so happy i had to post :-) Got GT4 working on the hdd, Lovely ;-)
aye aye man
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samuels
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28. April 2005 @ 13:26 |
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@samuels: You don't get it. The original disc is PTP, as stated by the dvddecrypter log you posted, but DL burnable media is OTP[Quote]
:) i do get it....read the full forum,i still say it's not OTP/PTP related,dual layer media has to be OTP to enable layer transition,etc,etc,the reason i say read the full forum is because people say burners can't write OTP,etc,etc,as you probably know yourself,dvd5 burns in PTP and d/l in OTP..i still say it's the dvd checks....for the normal "modded" PS2
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sharky22
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28. April 2005 @ 13:42 |
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samuels, the ptp/otp are the checks. the toxic os bypasses those checks, when you play the original game it checks the other layer and it finds it because its ptp, but when you play the backup it can't find it because it is written in otp and even if you set the layer break as the original it would burn it in reverse because thats how otp works, it burns the first layer in from center to the outer then burns the second layer from the outer to the center again. so what we all need to do is to try and get the toxic os and make a patch to apply onto the image. gt4 plays the game with the toxic os 100% because it is on the modchip, now i'm thinking if you apply a patch to the image, it would load it up but where is it gonna save it, can it save it in the ps2 memory or memory card.
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samuels
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28. April 2005 @ 13:50 |
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samuels, the ptp/otp are the checks. the toxic os bypasses those checks, when you play the original game it checks the other layer and it finds it because its ptp, but when you play the backup it can't find it because it is written in otp and even if you set the layer break as the original it would burn it in reverse because thats how otp works, it burns the first layer in from center to the outer then burns the second layer from the outer to the center again. so what we all need to do is to try and get the toxic os and make a patch to apply onto the image. gt4 plays the game with the toxic os 100% because it is on the modchip, now i'm thinking if you apply a patch to the image, it would load it up but where is it gonna save it, can it save it in the ps2 memory or memory card. [Quote]
no ....no....no .thats not where the dvd checks are,burning in OTP/PTP makes very little difference,even if this game was on dvd5,i wouldn't mind betting the checks would still be just as hard to find,the PS2 can read both discs...dvd5 and d/l discs..whether OTP/PTP
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samuels
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28. April 2005 @ 14:19 |
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duh..... *L* iv'e been trying for weeks too at gt4,it never occurred to me,to engrossed in this i suppose...one of my xbox's has a duo 2 chip and it can read d/l no problems,although i think it has been flashed with an executor bios,i didn't do the install,butttt my other xbox,i don't know what chip it has in it,all i know is, it's fairly old,it too plays d/l backups no problems,now i know there would be a difference between PS2 and xbox bios's,does anybody know if the duo2 is flashable for the PS2 to play d/l,although personally i don't think the chips are entirely the problem,but just thought i'd mention this about my xbox's and ask if there was a flash for the duo 2...duo 2 se chip for the PS2
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sharky22
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28. April 2005 @ 16:06 |
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@samuels, let me make it clear, the dvd checks are the ones where the laser goes from the first layer to the second layer, if it finds the right data then it loads up, but when you burn it on your dvd writer and because it doesnt write it in ptp it writes the second layer the wrong way, now if you put that into your ps2 it would load up the dvd but when it comes to checking the other layer thats where it fails because it cant find the right data because of the otp. you even said it on this thread that you copied the disc onto a dual layered disc and you didnt change anything or apply any patches, when you loaded it up it loaded the first layer of the game and then it would not load the second layer because its in otp mode, you put your original disc in and it worked because it found the data that it was looking for. I analysed both of the .VOL files the GT4.VOL and GT4L1.VOL in a hex editor and found out that both of these files has the same hex codes but what i believe is that these files are actually one file altogether but split into two. Anyway forget about the PTP or OTP issue the only thing we can do to make it work on a DVD9 is to try and find out whats in the Toxic OS and try and make a patch out of that. There are other modchips that support DVD9 DL like O2, Matrix Infinity, we can get either of their firmware and analyse it and try and make a patch for the actual image.
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matt1553
Newbie
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28. April 2005 @ 18:32 |
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Just to clarify the differences between PTP and OTP.
PTP
Layer 1
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out
Layer 0
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out
OTP
Layer 1
Lead Out <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<^
Layer 0 ^
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^
PTP is basically created as two seperate discs on one, each with their own lead in and lead out.
OTP is created as one disc with one lead in and one lead out spanned across two layers.
Blank dual layer discs that you burn with a bual layer DVD writer are created as OTP, and cannot be converted to PTP in any way (seperate lead in and lead out for the seperate layers of a PTP disc). It is unlikely that blank Dual Layer discs in PTP format will be available any time in the near future.
The reason this game works on two single layer DVD5's when layer 0 is burnt to one disc, and layer 1 is burnt to another disc eg.
Disc 1
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out (Layer 0)
Disc 2
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out (Layer 1)
is because it's almost exactly the same as doing this: (PTP)
Layer 1
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out
Layer 0
Lead In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Out
Building upon this, I'm guessing the PS2 reads the lead in on layer 0 first on the original PTP GT4 disc to get the location of the file (core.gt4) on the disc which then tells the PS2 where the the other game files are located and what to do with them, along with references to the lead in on layer 1 (Where GT4L1.vol is located). I also think that the PS2 then reads the lead in on layer 1, which gives it the location of GT4L1.vol. I'm guessing that when the disc is burned as OTP the PS2 gets as far as the references to the lead in on layer 1, but seing as it isn't there the PS2 will lock up untill it finds that lead in (which explains why you can get the game to work if you continuously swap between a burnt OTP copy and the original game.)
If this is true then the way the DMS firmware makes the OTP copy work is by checking for references to the lead in on layer 1 and GT4L1.vol and pointing the PS2 back to the lead in on layer 0 which would give it the location of GT4L1.vol.
I hope this helps to explain how the discs work, and also give you some ideas about what needs to be changed to either make this game work on a dual larer OTP disc or a single layer DVD5 disc.
Sidenote: Nearly all of this information was gathered by reading this entire thread, so please try and read through it completely (yes, I know it's bordering 40 pages) before repoasting something that has already been said.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. April 2005 @ 22:09
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samuels
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29. April 2005 @ 02:20 |
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@sharky22...this is not entirely correct....think about the dvd checks that can't be broken on some dvd5 games,the checks can be any where on the disc and in any file,you have to be able to identify them,now just because GT4 is dvd9,does not mean it's reading layer 1 to find the checks.now i don't claim to be a moucho groucho master at this stuff and never will be,but the vol.files don't always hold the checks in them.but any rate your right,we should stop this babbling and be looking out for or trying to make patches...
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sharky22
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29. April 2005 @ 03:20 |
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@matt1553, the game does not work when one layer has been burnt onto one disc and the other layer has been burnt onto another disc, i've tried it.
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sharky22
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29. April 2005 @ 03:21 |
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i even opened up my ps2 and saw that the laser didn't move anywhere it just stayed near the centre and probably was searching for the other layer
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george77
Newbie
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29. April 2005 @ 03:34 |
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PLAY WITH THE BEST, DIE LIKE THE REST
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rjavier
Newbie
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29. April 2005 @ 04:00 |
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I dont know if there are actually two lead ins and two lead out, but in case there are not, somebody could take the second layer image and add a dummyfile to complete the 4.7Gigs and write an small app that reverse the binary information inside that iso. So the first byte would be exachanged with the last one and so on until the middle, like the code wroted to excahge positions in a vector but directly with the iso file bits, this way if you can succesfully burn the isos in a DL disk, the first layer would be in the right direction and the second even if it was written in the wrong direction it would be readed correctly because it was backwards and started at the begining because of the dummy file
layer1 image:
layer1 12345
layer1 image WITH dummy file:
layer1 12345DDDDDD
layer1 image WITHOUT dummy file writed in OPT WITHOUT bits invertion
layer1 54321
layer1 image dummy file writed in OPT WITHOUT bits invertion
layer1 DDDDDD54321
layer1 image dummy file writed in OPT WITH bits invertion
layer1 12345DDDDDD
Final D/L disk
layer1 12345DDDDDD
layer0 ===========
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dasha74
Newbie
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29. April 2005 @ 04:16 |
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The PS2 would still identify the disc as OTP, a copy, and stop loading, due to the information in the Control Data Zone which contains - in sector 0 - Physical format Information which contains info on book type, TRACK PATH, number of layers etc. search with google for 'INF-8090', it thoroughly explains PTP an OTP, and also raises another possibility - is the media code/manufacturers ID on the disc(blank media) the actual check? I would guess the PS2 wouldn't be to happy about loading when it discovers the ID is 'MKM 001' instead of ' N/A Pressed DVD'.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. April 2005 @ 04:34
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sharky22
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29. April 2005 @ 05:54 |
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@rjavier, thats a good idea, i was actually searching for a program that reverses the other layer so when it records it records it as otp but has everything reversed, or when the ps2 reads the disc it reads it just like the original. But is there any such program to do the reverse? The other thing you said was adding dummy files to fill up the other part of the dvd which the ps2 doesn't read, i don't think you need the dummy files because all you have to do is set the layer break to exactly the same as the original, that way it would go straight to the other layer without finishing the first layer.
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shoaib1
Newbie
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29. April 2005 @ 07:24 |
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is there any way 2 play it with swapmagic? If not then how long will it take
Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer
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RemyK313
Member
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29. April 2005 @ 12:50 |
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Even if there was a program to reverse the data, it doesn't matter. PTP is a format that simply can't be replicated. If you search this thread, someone explains the real difference. The difference is that between OTP layers, there's a lead in. Not only that, Even if you reverse the layer and pad it with dummy data to fill the disc, the PS2 will still think it's running an OTP disc, just with layer 1 having unreadable information.
There's a lot to be said about the PTP/OTP thing, but one thing is certain, you can't convert one to the other. Either you get a disc that's pressed in PTP, or you burn a disc that's in OTP.
PTP support probably won't come up in newer generations of DVD burners? Why? Because most people only need that dual-layer burning for dual-layer movies, and for that, it's best to have it burned in OTP, so that there's no pause between layer switches.
and shoaib1 : There's currently no working SMD solution. It'll probably take somewhere around 20 years, or when someone decrypts the tables. By then, you will have beaten the ORIGINAL COPY that you bought from the store, and not the copy that you downloaded from the net, or ISO'd from a rental place.
Everyone else who doesn't want to wait : There's no one holding a gun to our heads forcing us to decrypt the protection, this is something we do for fun, and only out of intellectual curiosity.
For some people, that's an amazing concept to understand, to try and defeat a protection simply because it's HARD for us to do so.
It's called curiosity, it's what the spirit of hacking is. No one's holding out on you, and no one's keeping secrets here. Toolboy, who so graciously supplied us with a working HD solution, his work was for HD, it's completely different from getting it down to DVD5.
Wanna know how? Because L-Burna was working on a similar solution for it, and got about halfway to where Toolboy got to, and then Toolboy came in, and figured out the rest.
So, if you guys are really upset over this, just buy the game. All of us did, we all own copies of the game. We're simply trying to back up those games, really not even to protect them, simply to back them up for reference, and so that we know what to do when the situation arises again.
So, seriously, before anyone posts another : "How Long", "Is it working", or "Give up and buy the damn game" reply, know that we do this out of curiosity, and not to try to save 30 bucks on a game we already own.
Wanna whine to someone? Whine to Team Toxic. They said they were going to help everyone out by posting a DVD9 patch, and from that we could have come up with a specific solution for this and other games like it. They never did, and they never did probably due to a conflict of interest. Even though, they don't have specific ties to the DMS team, they're the only people working on the DMS4 flashes. They came out with a DVD9 solution, and they haven't shared it with the rest of us. Why? So that people will be forced to buy THEIR chips. And so that people can't use their existing, or cheaper, chips to run DVD9 games. THAT'S greed.
Us? We don't get paid for this. We don't make money if we come out with a solution, not like the DMS team and Team Toxic do. We're not under any pressure to come up with anything, this is a leisure activity that we due in the pursuit of knowledge.
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