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DVD-R and DVD+R Dual/Double Layer
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 05:24 |
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I just got a dual layer burner, since I have noted a bit of loss of quality when I burn a DVD after I shrink it -- especially when I view the DVD on my 70" HDTV.
My DVD player in my car only plays DVD-R media (not sure why), so I am looking for DVD-R DL media. I have noted that DVD+R DL media is a bit less expensive, and frequently I have seen the DVD+R DL media advertised for about $1.00/disk, but the DVD-R DL about $1.65 - $3.00/disk (or more). My home players accept either -R or +R media.
Any advantages to using DVD-R DL media vs. the DVD+R DL media.
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Senior Member
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6. December 2006 @ 08:23 |
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None. It's actually harder to use and not well-supported. DVD+R DL *SHOULD* work provided your burning software bitsets it to DVD-ROM. In theory, bitset DVD+R is better than even DVD-R. Take something you've burned to DVD+R DL (make SURE you use good media i.e. Verbatim) and run DVDIdentifier with it in your burner. It should say something like DVD+R -- DVD-ROM. If not, let me know your burner and the software you use to burn.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 08:39 |
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That's really not the problem. I can and do burn DVD+R media without any problems, and the DVD plays fine in all my home DVD players. However, the built in DVD player in my auto only supports DVD-R, and the DVD+R media will simply not play in my car.
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Senior Member
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6. December 2006 @ 08:59 |
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The reason why I brought that up is because if your car player can play commercial (pressed) discs, and it can play recorded media (-Rs) then it should be able to play +Rs IF they are properly booktyped. That's why it's important to get that the booktyping thing straight; if it's not working, it might be a media quality issue.
DVD-R DLs are really a thing of last resort because, I said before, they are not well supported and because they have some technical limitations that +Rs do not. Regular, single-layer -Rs and -R DLs are two entirely different animals. If you do decide to work with -R DLs, use Verbatim media (they recently introduced the dash format into their lineup, asn it's available from supermediastore.com) and rip your original with DVD Decrypter in file mode (or just use DVD-FAB Decrypter). Then set the Layer Jump via PGCEdit, which now supports the dash DL formats (although how well, I don't know, but probably better than anything else.)
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 09:09 |
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So let me see if I understand what you are saying:
The manual in the auto says it will only play DVD-R media. And I do know I have created both DVD+R and DVD-R "single layer" media, and only the DVD-R will play in the car.
Are you saying that if I burn a Dual Layer DVD+R (DVD+R DL) correctly, that it should (or might) play in the car?
Commercial DVD's, rented at video stores (I think they are DVD-Ram) work fine in the car.
Thanks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 09:12 |
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Quote:
Are you saying that if I burn a Dual Layer DVD+R (DVD+R DL) correctly, that it should (or might) play in the car?
Yes, as long as you booktype it to DVDROM...
Quote:
Commercial DVD's, rented at video stores (I think they are DVD-Ram) work fine in the car.
DVDROM is the format for commercial dvds, so they will play fine, provided you booktype them :-)
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 09:20 |
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Thanks. Explain what you mean to "booktype it to DVD-Rom". I use the latest version of Nero, but I am sure I also have DVD Decrypter (or I can get or have DVD-FAB Decrypter).
Thanks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 09:26 |
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Senior Member
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6. December 2006 @ 09:33 |
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Commercial DVDs identify themselves to players as DVD-ROM. When DVD+R was created, the creators has the foresight to allow burners to set burned discs to impersonate commercial discs for compatibility reasons. Very smart move, as the -R format did not do that.
Most modern DVD burners will booktype (also called bitsetting) DL DVD+Rs. Most WILL NOT booktype single-layer, 4.7Gb discs, at least without a hacked firmware or some special software. If you go to Videohelp.com and look under "DVD Writers" on the left, search for your burner and see if it says "bitsetting". If not, it probably doesn't booktype single-layers.
DVD-Decrypter and IMGBurn both have the ability to set (usually, permanently) the ability to booktype, provided your drive supports it. Check out that feature. You can confirm this by burning a few +Rs, both SL and DL, across several shutdowns and restarts of your computer. If it consistently calls your +Rs DVD-ROMs, then you're good to go.
If a player still doesn't read a booktyped +R, it's most likely a media issue although it could be a reflectivity issue as well. Recorded media is less reflective than pressed media so some players which are very sensitive to reflectivity may work with some kinds of media but not others.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 09:49 |
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I presume this function is NOT supported in Nero. Correct?
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 09:53 |
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It is supported...
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 09:58 |
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ooooops, I do see now that your link if from Nero! Thanks. Gotta get my hands on some DVD+DL media.
Also gonna try to do it on DVD+R single layer and see what happenes since this media I already have a bunch, and is fairly cheap!
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 09:59 |
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Quote:
Gotta get my hands on some DVD+DL media.
Go for Verbatim DLs :-)
There the best out there.
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 10:05 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 10:16 |
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 10:27 |
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The link did not work.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. December 2006 @ 10:37 |
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Oops, Hmmm, I can't seem to find a link to the firmware anywhere else at the mo. Have a look on google for a bit :-)
Sorry.
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DrSteveH
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6. December 2006 @ 10:49 |
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I had no idea the can of worms I just opened up for myself, when I posted this topic. I had no idea about flashing drives until now. Damm, another topic I will have to explore.
I guess I better give up my doctor job! :-)
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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6. December 2006 @ 20:09 |
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DrSteveH,
I agree with Dunker and Ripper. DL Dvd+r's booktyped dvd-rom should be much more compatable than DL dvd-r's. I've never been a pioneer fanboy but I do know the old pioneer drives (prior to the 109) would not bitset (booktype) period. 109's and later can be made bitset capable with some hacked firmware (buffalo). With new drives as cheap as they are, you might look into picking up a litey. They are bitset ready and can easily be set to booktype all your DVD+R media to dvd-rom with an eeprom setting done with DVD Decrypter or imgburn.
Since your car dvd player will play dvd-r's it will most likely play dvd+r's and DL dvd+r's if they are booktyped dvd-rom. New or rental dvd's (pressed) are read as dvd-rom.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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DrSteveH
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7. December 2006 @ 10:39 |
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It is an interesting subject, and the more I have read, the more interesting this is getting. My external DVD drive is a Pioneer 111 D type drive. Since I bought and have used some of the 25 DVD-R DL media, I will use them up and give the DVD+R DL a try. Sounds like it should work. SOunds less expensive, and also seems like the consenses it it is a preferable type media.
What gets me the most interested is taking single layer DVD media, and doing the same (booktyping it to DVD-Rom), or taking single layer DVD+R media and buring it in a DVD-R drive, or vice versa.
This is getting more and more interesting, and confusing as well.
What's the down side of doing firmware updates using "hacked" firmware?
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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7. December 2006 @ 11:41 |
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Quote:
What's the down side of doing firmware updates using "hacked" firmware?
There is really no downside to updating your f/w. Be sure to follow the directions closely. Make sure there is no media in the drive and do not power down during the f/w flash.
The downside to using hacked f/w is it voids your warrenty. In order to make your pioneer 111 capable of bitsetting SL DVD+R media to dvd-rom, you will be required to flash it with hacked (buffalo) f/w. I thought that the newer pioneer drive models automatically booktyped DL dvd+r's to dvd-rom. I'm pretty sure the newer NEC's do.
There is always a very slight chance of causing a dead drive when flashing with official or hacked f/w. I have never personally had this happen or know of anyone that has.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
Senior Member
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7. December 2006 @ 12:37 |
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The only way to kill a drive AFAIK is if the computer completely locks up or the power fails in the middle of a firmware update. Running in safe mode (or even DOS) will minimize the chances of the former, and having a UPS or at least not doing the update while it's raining cats and dogs minimizes the latter.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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DrSteveH
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7. December 2006 @ 14:24 |
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How long does it take to do a firmware update? Minutes? I presume the file changes the settings in the chip in the DVD burner. When I first heard about this, I thought it was a software change of something in my computer.
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Senior Member
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7. December 2006 @ 14:57 |
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It takes about 30 seconds or so. It actually changes the software within the burner. Burners, like disk drives, video cards, DVD players, etc. are small microcomputers unto themselves.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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DrSteveH
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8. December 2006 @ 11:36 |
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Here is my drive......
DISCINFO VERSION : 1.6.1.6
VENDOR : PIONEER
MODEL : DVD-RW DVR-111D
REVISION : 1.19
VENDOR SPECIFIC : 06/03/31 PIONEER
LOADING MECHANISM : Tray
SERIAL NUMBER : ---
NUMBER VOL. LEVELS : 256
BUFFER SIZE : 2000KB
INTERFACE : ATAPI
RPC2 SCHEME : YES
STATUS : Not Set
USER CHANGES : 5
VENDOR CHANGES : 4
CURRENT REGION : Not set
ANALOG AUDIO PLAY : YES
COMPOSITE OUTPUT : NO
DIGITAL PORT-PORT1 : NO
DIGITAL PORT-PORT2 : NO
READ UPC CODE : YES
MULTISESSION READ : YES
MODE 2 FORM 1 : YES
MODE 2 FORM 2 : YES
READ ISRC CODE : YES
READ BAD CODE : NO
BUFFER UNDER-RUN : YES
MT. RAINIER : NO
CAN READ CDR : YES
CAN READ CDRW : YES
CAN READ CDRM2 : YES
CAN WRITE CDR : YES
CAN WRITE CDRW : YES
CAN TEST WRITE : YES
CAN READ DVD-ROM : YES
CAN READ DVD-R : YES
CAN READ DVD-RW : YES
CAN READ DVD-RAM : YES
CAN READ DVD+R : YES
CAN READ DVD+RW : YES
CAN WRITE DVD-R : YES
CAN WRITE DVD-RW : YES
CAN WRITE DVD-RAM : NO
CAN WRITE DVD+R : YES
CAN WRITE DVD+RW : YES
MAX CDR READ SPEED : 40
MAX CDR WRITE SPEED: 40
Is this the firmware revision??
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_file.php?site=tdb1&file=111DX829.ZIP
Thanks.
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