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1080i vs 720p
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 14:55 |
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Interesting on the PS3 that I don't have.
If that game looks better in 1080i leave it there I have no idea why. I heard there is a lot of problems with some of the PS3s, perhaps the 720p output setting is not working up to par the way it should. Or perhaps it just the NBA07 game play disk is not converting to 720p the right way.
But we have the same TV. I can tell you from that alone that all 720p signals look better than 1080i on that set.
That set is made for the 720p signal.
720p/60 is 60 frames per second... the p is Progressive
When you feed the set a 1080i signal you're feeding it an interlaced signal and that interlaced signal has 30 frames per second.
So what the TV does it re-arranges that signal from interlaced to Progressive and also the frame rate it out of sync.
So as far as the DVD player... keep all DVD signals in 720p
Up conversion works better on 720 or 768p sets because there is less pixels to make up for and it is easier for the set to climb to around 1 million Progressive (720p) than to 2 million interlaced (1080i) to get converted by the sets chip down to one million.... you with me? The set is converting it back to the Progressive 700s anyway and you're screwing around with the frame rates.
The 1080i looks like S%#t on my Panny 768p Plasma, you can't see that difference as much on the LCD, but the Plasma proves the difference is there.
Feed the set it's native signal... the Progressive 700s.
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 14:56
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0ckc0
Newbie
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12. February 2007 @ 15:37 |
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HD_nut, thanks for your input!
The NBA07 game on the PS3 has 1080p written all over it.
Perhaps it's not optimized for 720p or 768p TVs?
Any comment on the PS3's optimal display setting for blueray discs?
Well, if I understand you correctly, there's little or no point to output 1080i signal to the Bravia because essentially the TV will re-scale it to 720progressive? Stick to 720p, is this a correct statement?
Also, what video source other than broadcast HD channels like ABC-HD feed 720p@60fps? HD-DVDs? Bluerays?
-0ckc0-
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error5
Senior Member
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12. February 2007 @ 15:42 |
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Originally posted by HD_nut:
Interesting on the PS3 that I don't have.
If that game looks better in 1080i leave it there I have no idea why. I heard there is a lot of problems with some of the PS3s, perhaps the 720p output setting is not working up to par the way it should. Or perhaps it just the NBA07 game play disk is not converting to 720p the right way.
There's nothing wrong with your PS3. NBA 07 (the one with Kobe Bryant on the cover) is in 1080p so the 1080i setting is better for this game. OTOH NBA 2K7 (the one with Shaq) is in 720p I think. The other 1080p games I know are Ridge Racer 7 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. There may be a few others.
For BluRay discs keep your output at 1080i and let the Bravia do the scaling.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 15:47
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 15:48 |
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You can set the HD DVD or BR players to a 720p setting or any output format, although I'm not sure that HD DVD does 1080p yet but they will soon if they don't now. I Don't believe the disks are native 60 fps, but they have a conversion to 720p/60.
Also keep your XBR TV on Cinamotion (spelling?) That will convert filmed based content to 60 frames as well. So keep it in the Progressive 700s.
Also on that note. I'm hearing all over the place that HD DVD looks better than Blu ray.
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 15:50
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 15:57 |
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Thanks error 5 about the game, but I respectfully disagree with feeding that TV an interlaced signal.
I fed my that TV a 1080 interlaced signal and paused it, I saw artifacts shadowing images on the screen.
Switched to 720p and the artifacts were gone. This was the result of an interlaced signal... odd even flickering into the set.
Although the set scaled it progressively, you can see the difference when I relieved the set the task of de interlacing.
What's more is the signal was from HD net,, native 1080i.
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 16:00
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error5
Senior Member
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12. February 2007 @ 16:06 |
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I have a 1080p display in my media room and a 720p LCD in the bedroom and I move my PS3 back and forth. Here's my experience with output resolutions: For 1080p sources specifically BluRay movies and 1080p games I keep the output at 1080p/i. For 720p games I switch to 720p for my bedroom LCD but I prefer the 1080i setting downstairs on my 1080p TV. Both are connected thru HDMI.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 16:24 |
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I give you this much I did my test with a component setting.
I have the 768p Panny plasma and 1080i is horrid on that.
Like I said with the LCD the differnce was the shadows with the 1080i signal. Him and I have the same set.
I can't comment on the PS3 so I'll leave that alone I did no test on that.
But my upconverting DVD players are in HDMI and the 1080i was bad on both sets. Great in 720p.
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
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error5
Senior Member
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12. February 2007 @ 16:34 |
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I think the PS3 handles things differently from an upconvert DVD player. Like I said for my 720p display - 1080p games and BluRay movies are best left at 1080i while for 720p games I switch to 720p output. This is what looks best for me. Even 0ckc0 sees a better picture with 1080i on the 1080p game. The PS3 just handles things that way.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 16:36
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Member
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12. February 2007 @ 16:37 |
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I have a my 360 w/HD DVD player hooked up 1080i-thru DVI and the picture is great and clear. After reading your post I went into my 360 and changed to 720p, the picture was not improved any at all if anything it was not as clear as when it was set to 1080i. Just because you prefer 720p that doesn't make it the standard for everyone else.
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 16:41 |
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UHALL What kind of TV do you have?
What is the native resolution of the set?
... again this may be different for games
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 16:41
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Member
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12. February 2007 @ 16:50 |
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My Tv is 1080i sony LCD rear projection I forgot to put that in. It makes a big diff.
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 17:11 |
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If the TV is 1080i all 1080i signals will look better han 720p on the set... thanks!
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
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error5
Senior Member
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12. February 2007 @ 17:37 |
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Originally posted by UHALL:
I have a my 360 w/HD DVD player hooked up 1080i-thru DVI and the picture is great and clear. After reading your post I went into my 360 and changed to 720p, the picture was not improved any at all if anything it was not as clear as when it was set to 1080i.
This is exactly what my friends and myself have been observing. With a 720p/768p/1080i display - if your source is 1080p native (BluRay, HD DVD, or 1080p game) it's usually best to leave the output at 1080i then let the display do the scaling/deinterlacing.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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HD_nut
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12. February 2007 @ 17:54 |
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Can you go 720p Component on HD DVD?
I can't comment on the HD DVD players, I didn't do a test with that.
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
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Member
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12. February 2007 @ 19:15 |
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the 360 HD-DVD is connected thru usb...Next version Xbox 360 is rumored to have HDMI connection. I just remembered my HD-DVD is hooked up component not DVI, my HD receiver is hooked up DVI..My BaD
either way the picture from the(xbox360) HD-DVD which upconverts is wonderful.
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12. February 2007 @ 19:18 |
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I can change the reso to 720p in the 360 but the HD-DVD relies on the 360 for all of the conversion.
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0ckc0
Newbie
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12. February 2007 @ 19:30 |
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error5, I see you have both the HD-DVD and PS3 for BR. Have you done an apple to apple comparison (using the same movie) on both formats to find out which format actually offers a better picture (in your opinion) on your XBR3, say at 7-10 ft viewing distance?
I'm still uncertain on the ultimate display setting (1080i or 720p) for the PS3 per my TV type. It seems like 1080i is for gaming and 720p for BR movies. As you can imagine, it could be a pain to have to switch it back and forth depending on application. Perhaps, 1080i is the way to go unless I see noticeable picture degradation while watching BR movies.
But I doubt I would see the difference. Will keep you guys informed.
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0ckc0
Newbie
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12. February 2007 @ 19:47 |
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HD-nut, yes I will take your recommendation on selecting 1280x720p video output setting on my std def upconversion dvd player. I'm not sure if you experience the same but after watching the HD broadcasts by ABC-HD (Lost, Grey's Anatomy), NBC-HD (Jay Leno & Conan) and especially Discovery HD, std def dvds with whatever upconversion just don't cut it for me anymore. By the way, I personally think Discovery HD looks AWESOME on the XBR. Any clue what kind of HD signal it is feeding?
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. February 2007 @ 19:54 |
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Quote:
I personally think Discovery HD looks AWESOME on the XBR. Any clue what kind of HD signal it is feeding?
Discovery HD Theater broadcasts at 1080i like everyone else except Fox Sports and ESPN HD and some other sporting events (most sporting events are broadcast at 720p because of fast motion concerns).
Check out Titan TV.com they list what is in HD and what the signal is, (resolution and audio type) just click on the show!
TitanTV.com
http://www.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx
----------------------------------
I haven't read all the posts but I want to make it clear that comparisons with various equipment will produce different outcomes not because of settings but because of hardware.
You have to know more than the resolution to make a good comparison. With digital systems its not about connections and quality of the picture technology, its about video processing (and proper calibration). The TV with the better video processors and source will beat a TV with worse. It can be as obvious as SDTV vs. HDTV or subtle like a movie that is correctly de-interlaced (motion adaptive reverse 2:3 pull-down) vs. a movie that isn't (no reverse 2:3 pull-down at all or poorly implemented).
Take this 50" Panasonic 1080p plasma for example. Audioholics test it right... Click on the read full review link!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=804728
Even similar components can out class each other. Look at Toshiba's HD DVD player line up for example. The HD-A2 has a decent video processor with a kick ass audio processor. The HD-XA2 on the other hand uses a industry leading video processor that does everything right and out preforms the HD-A2 even though both are playing the same HD-DVD movies. That kind of processing doesn't come cheap. The HD-XA2 cost twice as much as the HD-A2.
So going forward try to think (and do research) about what goes into the product not what features it has. All manufactures claim they offer the best Home Theater experiences but only a hand full of products really do. The main issue is that you yourself may actually prefer the bad picture over the good one. Thats where it becomes confusing. But that is another conversation.
Thanks for reading,
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2007 @ 20:14
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error5
Senior Member
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13. February 2007 @ 03:01 |
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Quote:
error5, I see you have both the HD-DVD and PS3 for BR. Have you done an apple to apple comparison (using the same movie) on both formats to find out which format actually offers a better picture (in your opinion) on your XBR3, say at 7-10 ft viewing distance?
The only movie I've seen on both formats is Training Day. The HD DVD version which is VC-1 (which I own) looks better than the MPEG2 BluRay version (which I borrowed from a friend.) Theoretically there should be no difference if both versions are encoded in VC-1 (like Superman Returns.)
Quote:
I'm still uncertain on the ultimate display setting (1080i or 720p) for the PS3 per my TV type. It seems like 1080i is for gaming and 720p for BR movies.
Like I said for my 720p TV I keep 1080p movies and games at 1080i but I switch to 720p for 720p games. On the 360 you have to do this manually but I think the PS3 does this automatically for you.
Ced: I agree with you on the role of video processing and also on proper calibration. The link you provided on the Panasonic 1080p review is very informative particulary this part:
Quote:
I?ve had a chance to review a number of 720p displays in recent months. They have, for the most part, all been very good. But there has always been this itch? the 1080 itch I call it. Will it look that much better? Will it be that much better? With a 50? screen, I?ve often heard people say that you can?t tell the difference. Maybe that?s true, but personally, I want to see for myself.
? well, one wonders if you?ll notice a difference in a 50? set. From the distance I was sitting, yes. The overall image is sharper, lines are crisper, and everything just looks more lifelike.
He used the same Sencore and Spyder combination that my ISF calibrator used on my XBR3. I guess with proper calibration the difference could be more visible.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. February 2007 @ 03:43
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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13. February 2007 @ 06:05 |
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error5 is correct. If you have the 1080i checked in your PS3 display settings then 1080p sources (games or BluRay movies) will be output as 1080i automatically. 720p games will output as 720p automatically if the display supports it.
Quote:
The HD-A2 has a decent video processor with a kick ass audio processor. The HD-XA2 on the other hand uses a industry leading video processor that does everything right and out preforms the HD-A2 even though both are playing the same HD-DVD movies.
Ced: I did get the XA2 recently as dblbogey7 suggested and it definitely lives up to expectations. It outputs 1080p thru HDMI (which is version 1.3 BTW) and also has a great audio section. Since my SXRD was ISF calibrated for the A1 I was expecting that it would need recalibration for the XA2. However, the current settings seem to work well for the XA2 for both HD DVD and upconversion so I'll hold off for now.
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
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HD_nut
Member
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13. February 2007 @ 12:12 |
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As far as the games and the disks, It's starting to appear as you have to keep the HD DVD or Blu ray player in the native resolution of the disk... Learn something every day.
0ckc0,
You're right...
Nothing will beat real HD... People are misinformed about HD up converters a bit.
To get HD out of a an up-converting player you need the disk to be SHOT in HD.
There is no way you can get HD from a disk that was shot in standard def. Can't get blood from a stone!
Unfortunately, the majority of SHOT in HD disks are adult films. I said this before, and I can understand why people would get upset with me... but I'm stating a fact.
First have a flat panel fixed pixel display of 720p or 768p..
Get a SHOT in HD disk...
put the DVD player in 720x1280 through a HDMI connection,
and you will not tell the difference from a mediocre HD broadcast like Two & Half men to that DVD up conversion!
720p/60
The fastest and best resolution format!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. February 2007 @ 12:12
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Member
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15. February 2007 @ 06:32 |
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This is a very iteresting thread,
Hopefully you can help me with this question.
Im going to be using a PS3 in the UK, and want to get a HD TV.
I dont have a massive budget, also will be sitting 6-8 foot from TV, so was thinking a 37 or 42" would be best.
I was looking at the Sharp Aquos LCD TV's this topic seem to state that the Cheeper 786P is better than the 1080p is this correct, as I could afford either of the TV is the comparason below.
the only re-views I have read have been good apart from the sound, this is not a problem as I have a Sony AV-AMP with 5.1 setup.
any other recomendations will be handy. but want to know if to get the 1080p ot 786P, the PS3 as far as I know has 1080p and 720p output.
[url=http://www.pricegrabber.co.uk/search_compare.php?topcat_id=2&page_id=197&page_id=197&masterids%5B%5D=30701137&masterids%5B%][/url]5D=26157634&Compare+Selected+Products.x=51&Compare+Selected+Products.y=10
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Member
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15. February 2007 @ 06:38 |
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the url link seem not to work is previous post so trying again
786p-and-1080p-side-by-side
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error5
Senior Member
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15. February 2007 @ 11:50 |
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@DBM_Bones: Considering the minimal difference in price of the two I'm going to go out on a limb here and say get the 1080p model. There are these things to consider:
1. Your primary reason for getting the HDTV is a PS3.
2. As programmers and developers get more comfortable with the inner workings of the Cell and the RSX you'll get to see more and more 1080p games. Some people here may disagree but I still believe that to get the best out of a 1080p game you need a 1080p display.
3. BluRay movie playback looks good at 720p (I have a 720p LCD in my bedroom) but really shines on a 1080p display (as in my main setup).
4. That price for a 42 inch 1080p Sharp Aquos is one of the best bargains I've seen for a 1080p display anywhere - even in GBP's. I guess some of the 1080p models are finally coming down in price.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. February 2007 @ 12:11
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