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Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 17:44 |
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Hey you guys! Help! Especially sam.
Shaff says I won't be able to run a 3850 agp never mind whether sapphire or HIS. He says I don't have the amps (20 amps on 12 volt rail.) I tried to google just now to get the wattage requirements, or 12 volt amp draw on a 3850 vs the x850xtpe that I am running right now.
I repeat I am running my system right now, just fine, no power problems as far as I can tell, and I will not be doing anything different except increasing memory from 1 gig to 2 gigs, and that's probably 5 volt stuff, and swapping out the gfx cards.
I know the 3850 has a lot more transistors, and of course is a lot more powerful gfx, that's why I want it. But I also know that it uses a newer, denser silicon architecture, with better efficiency = reduced power per megaflop or however they measure it, SO MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT THEY BOTH DRAW ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF 12 VOLT AMPS.
Coming up with the power draw, pinning down the wattage for the two, would probably take me three hours. But you guys might just already know. Sam, you are brilliant at just knowing these things, or pulling up these answers quickly.
So, does the 3850 agp pull any significant amount of amps MORE on the 12 volt rail than the x850xtpe that is already in there, if anybody knows?
Thanks in advance, Rich
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 17:46 |
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Well, I know what to say: Shaff = BeQuiet!
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 17:52 |
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The HD3850 AGP uses 105W peak. That's not all 12V power, but most of it is and that would equal 9A. A CPU at full tilt would be drawing at least 8A. Cutting it a bit fine aren't we?
I don't claim to know what the TDP of the X850XT is, but a PSU is something you will not need to buy again when you get a new build. Put the Allied PSU on the shelf, and get a new PSU now, even if you do want the damn 3850 AGP. Then, when you retire the system after all this, sell the 3850 AGP, put something more reasonable in it, and stick the Allied back in.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 17:59 |
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Shaff - just kidding, mate. Lol
Sam, 105 watts, now we're getting somewhere. Yes we are cutting it a bit fine, but there is nothing else running except for some fans - the disks run from time to time, the dvd is off, there are some 12 volt fans.
You've given me a starting point. Where do you suggest I go to find the wattage draw on the x850xtpe? -Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 18:05 |
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The TDP of the X850XT PE is apparently 75W, versus the 105 of the 4850.
Convinced yet?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 18:23 |
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Hmmmmm!
Sam - very helpful. Saved me hours and hours! Ok, 105 watts on 3850, 75 watts on x850xtpe.
My rating is 20 amps on 12 volt rail. Total psu is supposedly 500 watts.
An extra 30 watts/12 volts = 2.5 amps. Do I feel lucky?? I absolutely have zero power problems now, as far as I can tell. From your numbers, I am pulling 8 amps on the cpu now, and only maybe 6 on the gfs, totals 14, leaving a buffer of 6 for fans - typical fan takes what, about 1/4 amp? My hard drives take 12 volts each, but they are set to turn off in 10 minutes, so the w98 drive c gets turned off and stays off, the xp drive d turns on when a new part of the game has to load.
You say 105 watts for 3850, most of that 12 volts = 8.75, let's say 8.5 since at least some tiny part of that is 5 volt stuff. My CPU draws 8, you said. So that's 16.5, leaving me buffer of 3.5, rather than buffer of 6 that I have now.
What's the worst that could happen? (blow mobo, blow gfx, start fire, burn down my house. hmmmmm)
By the way, in going through the reviews on the sapphire I found that quote again:
Quote:
I bought this card after sending back 2 his hd3850 iceq3 that ran awfull at best , i tried my friends saphire and it ran great in my pc so i bought it and the new one runs great also,very pleased
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2. August 2008 @ 18:25 |
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Harv - I will say this.
i had zero problems with my Qtec 450W PSU, then I added two hard disks, which like moving from an X850 to HD3850, added 30W to my power consumption. I powered up my system and watched my 200GB hard disk billowing thick smoke out of it.
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 19:10 |
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how many HDDs are you running and ODDs?
also, the cheap PSUs dont out put continuously their power, and P = IV. V will stay the same, so mostlikely the I (amperage) they have written is for the max output which = 500W. NOT for the continuous power output.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 19:12 |
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Eh? Power supply outputs are DC, surely they're not subject to peak and RMS?
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 19:19 |
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So I finally understand how PSUs convert AC to DC.
They have capacitors that store charge, so when the current alternates to negative the capacitors take over for that instant?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. August 2008 @ 19:22 |
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The capacitors smooth the ripple mainly, by that means. The actual inversion was traditionally carried out by Diodes I think, but their role may have changed in high-load applications like PSUs.
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2008 @ 19:27 |
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im taking about cheap manufactureres who on their sticker write they max peak power output and amperages down, and not their continuous, like the higher end ones.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. August 2008 @ 19:29 |
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Ah well, the worst is that those ratings are usually at room temperature,not 50C.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 21:30 |
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Yeah, I think they're still using diodes. How else ya gonna do it - you have to stop the current flowing backward 60x/sec. Yeah, diodes.
You added two hard drives and blew the new hard drive! Damn, I had forgotten all those little details.
Yeah, Shaff, continuous versus peak - you're right, I think.
I would only hope that the weak-ass 20amps is, at the least, a reliable continous flow, not just a peak flow.
The Allied 500 watts is such a misleading rating when 20amps x 12volts = 240 watts on the 12 volt rail where almost all your devices are drawing. So what if the stupid thing provides another 260 watts on 5 and 1.5 plus or minus voltages, maybe a random 9 volt in there too I forget. Very misleading and deceitful power rating = I hate those guys!! LOL
Sam, all you did is add the two HDs, and thick smoke!!!
Do I feel lucky? You've got me scared now. Sh*t!! I'm sick. I don't want to invest the money, and I never installed a psu before and I'm lazy - 8 Big reasons why I should just watch closely and see if there is any smoke. I would lose all my games!! I am sick. You have ruined my day :( LOL
Should I go on ebay and see if I can get all this shit cheap, a psu, 2gig PC3200 memory, and maybe somebody is selling a 3850agp who went to dual core? Maybe I'll go to ebay.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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2. August 2008 @ 23:42 |
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HOLY CHRIST!!! (That's kind of like Allah Akhbar, but more in the sense of Jeezus F**king Christ, or Are You Completely Shitting Me??. So maybe not really religious now that I think about it LOL
OKAY I WENT TO EBAY AND THEY'RE GIVING THE PSUs away. This one is buy it now price $20 and $10 for shipping. I guess I could hook over to Fry's and pick up one for $20.
A-Power 600W 20+4-pin Dual-Fan ATX PSU w/SATA It has 27 amps on the 12 volt rail. So for $30 bucks sounds like maybe I shouldn't cheap out and see if thick smoke boils up. I can probably find just as good for cheaper - but that's what popped up as soon as I put in PSU.
But wait a second, some faint part of my brain is kicking in and I remember studying about PSUs. And now I know you're going to tell me it's a huge POS (piece of sh*t) but my power requirements are not that much, will it really matter??
Yeah, I think it does, right, because the POS power supplies with their tiny little components end up frying themselves, burn up, and then they burn up your system. So maybe I should look for a name brand - also somebody said one time that if it is fairly HEAVY that is also usually a signal of LARGE capacitors, DIODES, windings, cores, whatever goes into a psu. So it's not about the rating it's about the quality. Let me see if there is a name brand on ebay - used, not new - what are the good name brands out there - I knew at one time.
I know shaff, Be Quiet, but I'm here stateside, so be quiet with that shit already!! LOL
OH MY GOD - I looked again, shipping weight 2.5 pounds. It only weighs 2.5 pounds with the whole goddamn box and everything - what a piece of sh*t. It's got to weigh at least 4 or 5 pounds to be any good I recall, even my Allied 500W weighs about 4.5 pounds as I remember. I just saved myself from a fate worse than death!!!
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2. August 2008 @ 23:48 |
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One cheap PSU that I know performs pretty well is a Ultra XVS 700 Modular PSU.
I ran a Oced E6400 at 3.5Ghz(which was pretty damn high for those chips), 2 hdds, 2 dvd drives, and a 8800GTX(along with a assortment of fans and lights).
I remember breaking the 12000 point part with that 8800GTX, when a few days before I was trying to beats Sam's 7000 points lol.
But I'm glad we finally got this through your thick head...JK. Yes, it's the QUALITY that matters. QUALITY PSUS tend to perform well.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. August 2008 @ 23:50
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 00:03 |
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Originally posted by random dude on newegg regarding sapphire 3850:
Wow, wow, wow! Originally I could not get this card to work properly if at all with most games, and I was blaming drivers mostly, and my 480w Thermaltake Pwr with only18A on the 12V rail. So I got a new power supply, tried 3 drivers, a few hotfixes, updated BIOS, did a rain dance, and then I did something that changed my view of this card. I reinstalled my Motherboards (Asus SK8n w/FX-53 CPU) chipset drivers, booted up and wallah! Every game works perfect.
Hmmm, I put this quote here, because the dude WAS running the thing with only 18amps on the 12 volt rail. He wasn't running it well, but things weren't smoking.
He DID end up changing his PSU, but he implies that his mobo driver re-install finally is what made it work. So I've got 24 more amps than this guy had on the 12 volt rail. Do I feel lucky?
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2 product reviews
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3. August 2008 @ 00:05 |
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lol
Here at afterdawn we try to ignore Random dudes at newegg. Just this bad habit we have.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 00:14 |
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Oh yeah, what does the Ultra weigh? And what's cheap? Is it on Newegg? Sam what's your opinion. Shaff - BE QUIET!
Ok I'll look it up. It's not only that my head is thick, I'm also lazy. But if I don't change the PSU I will be walking on razor blades for the next several months waiting for the smoke, and the stress will probably not be worth the $50-75 bucks.
Maybe I'll ask my buddy Mo who installed the stupid Allied 500W if he's got some PSUs laying around his shop - he owes me after putting that hunk of sh*t in my build - I remember him telling me "And look, it's got this light inside." I should take my AK over there and say "Allah Akhbar, replace the PSU mo*f*ker!" Oh I forgot, it's boozer who has the AK, never mind.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 00:18 |
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Originally posted by abuzar1:
lol
Here at afterdawn we try to ignore Random dudes at newegg. Just this bad habit we have.
Well that's the last time I post a review!!! :D
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3. August 2008 @ 00:31 |
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lol You are a funny man.
The Ultra was cheap because I got it for a 100 with a great case included. The Case plus PSU is 36 pounds. Just the case is 20 pounds. Do the math :)
P.S. Sam hates Ultra.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 02:15 |
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Sixteen pounds for the PSU!
Holy Sh*t!! (More of that religious talk.)
Here's one on newegg - $65, then they send you a $30 rebate check - total $35. Two 12 volt rails, total 29 amps:
Thermaltake PSU
What do you guys think - thermaltake, not a bad name - any good in PSUs?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 02:15 |
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(double post)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2008 @ 02:16
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 02:27 |
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Originally posted by some other random newegg dude boozer will ignore:
Do not use with high-end systems with powerful video cards, multiple drives, etc. Was not adequate for a nVidia 9600GT. System would shut off under load. Bought a different brand with better specs (520W, 18 amps at 12V) and have no problems since then.
Other Thoughts: Be more attention to the amp ratings, not wattage.
Now wait a sec! Here's the above dude says "No" to thermaltake psu, gets rid of it, buys a better one, with 18 amps on 12 volt rail, and life is good. And he says "Pay attention to the amps, mofos!"
Well, I already have 20 amps on my 12 volt rail. Why am I letting you guys get me all stressed out?? lol
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2008 @ 02:46
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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3. August 2008 @ 02:43 |
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Nobody tells you what their PSUs weigh, except for abuzar, and his is 16 pounds, which is ungodly heavy. Never heard of anything like that! What the hell is inside the thing that makes it weigh so much!!!
I guess if you go to the manufacturer web site they'll tell you shipping weight. I swear I read that weight is a very good indicator of PSU component quality - it's got to weigh at least 5 pounds I think I read.
You can put small lightweight capacitors, diodes, windings etc. and run the thing at the edge - total weight 2.5 pounds, or you can put heavy components in and run it safely within specs, lots of room for no-problem surges, whatever, total weight 5 pounds, the thing runs cooler and lasts for a long time.
Or you can take it to the next level, add 10 pounds of lead shielding, advertise that it will survive a high altitude H-Bomb gamma ray blast, "You'll be the only kid playing COD4 while all your buddies are out in the street cryin" and put the Ultra label on it.
Yeah!! Got to get me one of those! LOL
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2008 @ 02:47
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