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Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)
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3. August 2008 @ 07:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Hmmm, well I doubt the PSU weighs 16 pounds. Probably a crap load of packaging and stuff. But still, it's a decent PSU.
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3. August 2008 @ 10:24 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm looking into a new graphics card maybe around December or so and wanted to know what is the best value card. All I want to do is be able to run games at maximum settings (or close to so I can see the detail) on my monitor that supports 1280x1024 as the max resolution (Dell ultrasharp 17" ftw)

Nvidia 8600
Nvidia 8800
ATI 3870
ATI 3870 x2
ATI 4850

The case I have is the 1st gen XION with 2 HDs and a C2Q @ 3.07 idling close to 40C. I have a 650w Cooler Master PSU. Whatever card I get, I would like it so that it doesn't turn my computer into a heater (Which it currently acts as in winter).
Would any of these new cards run cooler than my 6800 GTO (Dell OEM Card) and are they any longer?
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3. August 2008 @ 10:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
yes tehy are longer, and yes they will run hotter

well apart from the 8600



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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3. August 2008 @ 10:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
How much longer? An inch or 2 i can will still fit in my case. Any more and it'll start causing problems and I'll have to remove the HDD Tray.
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3. August 2008 @ 12:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Probably around two or three inches more.
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3. August 2008 @ 12:26 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
darn, I really don't want to get a new case. If I do end up getting it I'll probably have to end up mounting the hard drive some other way.

If anybody has the cards could you please take measurements for me?
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3. August 2008 @ 13:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
With the best will in the world, scared is what I was hoping for. I do respect you Rich, but your decision to still keep with that PSU in the face of all our advice to change it is a little odd.
DO NOT get a cheap PSU replacement, otherwise you'll make the situation even worse. Almost all cheap PSUs are ass. Installing a decent PSU is a piece of cake, and strongly recommended.
The A-Power unit will almost certainly go up in flames. As will a list of around 50 PSU brands I posted a year or so ago (wish that had been stickied...)
Abuzar is right, I don't like Ultra PSUs, primarily because some of them work fine, but others literally catch fire like cheap units (because they actually are just cheap crap underneath).

Thermaltake are another odd company. Some units like the original Purepowers are terrible, but the Toughpower series is excellent. Why? Because it's not Tt at all, the Toughpower is made by ChannelWell, a respectable manu.



Core2kid: Old 6800s are typically 8-9" long. 4850s, 4870s and the like are typically around 10", the dual cards around 12".



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
harvrdguy
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3. August 2008 @ 14:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well, maybe I'm coming around to swapping out the PSU - it depends on what time of day you catch me. Shaff this is all your fault! Not to mention boozer with his accurate "thick headed" observation - and sam correctly characterizing my stubborness as "odd." Lol Ok I have to agree.

Damn I don't want to put another dollar into the stupid case - but if the Allied tanks like happened to Sam I'll be wasting LOTS OF TIME - so I probably should just stop being so lazy, and stop bitching about forking out another $75. Besides, the rig has to last another year probably, so what the hell!

Sam, you gave me a PSU recommendation a while back. The PSUs that have multiple rails - is that really any advantage? - one of the most respected PSU brands has ONE MAIN rail. Anyway, rather than the 50 pieces of sh*t - what are the brands you like. You said ToughPower. How about 5 more - if you have any newegg links handy even better.

Thanks guys - everybody - for all your help!! Shaff BE QUIET! LOL
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3. August 2008 @ 14:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I ought to mention, it's not just me that this has happened to, I must know at least a dozen people that have had big financial setbacks due to dodgy power supplies. I don't like to see it happening to anyone.
I like the following units:

Single rail:
Corsair VX
Corsair TX
PC Power & Cooling Silencer (note, these are NOT quiet units despite the name)
Thermaltake Toughpower (don't be fooled, the four 'rails' are all soldered together!)
Seasonic S12

Multi rail
Corsair HX
BeQuiet! Darkpower
Enermax Modu82+
Seasonic M12



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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3. August 2008 @ 16:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Oh and the high end Zalmans are nice too.

I would just get a Corsair HX1000 and be done with it LOL.
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3. August 2008 @ 16:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ooh forgot about those, yeah, my mistake. The 850 and 1K units are much better than the 600 though, which is a shame.

Core2: Get an HD4850, it's vastly better than anything else out there. Nothing will run as cool as the 6800 you have now except the 8600, and they're not any faster than your 6800, so pointless upgrades.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
harvrdguy
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3. August 2008 @ 22:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ok, dudes, this is like the first on Sam's list. Corsair VX450.

I read a review about it - I don't know the weight, but it looked pretty substantial under the covers. I could go to the manufacturer web site I guess and look it up, but I guess at least in the 4.5-5 pound range. Output is 33 amps on the 12 volt rail. So while it shows 450watts versus the 500 watt allied, that I have now, it's running 33 amps on the 12 volt rail instead of the weak 20 amps I get now. We calculated around 16-17 amps between the gfx and my p4 both running busy - this leaves lots of room above that. (Yes I know I could get better and move it to another case later, but I will be doing a complete new build later and keep this box intact as-is, maxed out p4 agp, for a friend, or as a spare.) Here's the link.

The Corsair PSU VX450W at newegg

Price is $75 with $15 rebate, or $70 with free shipping brand new on ebay. Everybody good with this? -Rich
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3. August 2008 @ 22:24 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
perfect choice IMO. its a brilliant PSU, and will last you many an upgrade.



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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3. August 2008 @ 22:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Corsair 650TX

75 after rebates, and free shipping.

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsair-tx-650w-.../206178324.html
harvrdguy
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3. August 2008 @ 23:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Thanks dudes - I'll see what newegg charges to ship. The 450 is $60 after the rebate. I don't know difference between VX and TX, both on Sam's list, but 650 of course sounds better than 450, but I'm already overkill for my case - and I'm maxed out on agp so nothing more with this case - EVER! This finalizes the p4.

I finally found the weight - 3kg, or 6.6 pounds, take off for the container and packing, at least 5-6 pounds for the PSU = good solid unit. (Of course you don't get the Ultra extra 10 pounds of lead shielding, but ...)

(Seriously abuzar, how could a psu weigh 15-16 pounds - 1200 watts, 1500 watts, well then, maybe, in that case.) LOL
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4. August 2008 @ 06:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
TX= Higher end VX

650TX has a lot more power and for 15 more I suggest you get it. Just to be a little future proof. ;)
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4. August 2008 @ 07:35 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I've used the 450W Corsair VX in a build and it's very solid, but the 650W TX is a better unit than the 450 - of course in the UK it's 50% more expensive, but thanks to buy.com, in the US that's not so much the case.
Think of the 650TX as a 450VX with more power. Unless you do crossfire it'll be fine, but you were considering moving to using dual 4800s when you are running 2560x1600 weren't you? For that purpose I'd recommend at least the 650TX.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

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4. August 2008 @ 08:50 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Chart updated! Yippee!
The 2560x1600 only figures at the bottom are artificially inflated from the normal scores since they are not bound by the same CPU limits as the other cards. However, nobody having tested these setups at anything other than 2560x1600, these results are all you can get.

9600GSO: 410 (est)
HD2900XT: 416
HD3870: 452
9600GT: 503 (moved)
8800GT: 525
8800GTS G92: 598
8800GT OC: 594
8800GTS G92 OC: 644
9800GTX: 644
8800GTX: 647
8800 Ultra: 710
9800GTX OC: 758
HD3850CF: 761
HD3870X2: 786
HD4850: 787
HD3870CF: 801
HD4850 OC: 839
9600GT SLI: 878
8800GT SLI: 893
GTX260: 979
HD4870: 983
HD3870X3: 1028
9800GTX SLI: 1056
9800GX2: 1059
9800GX2 Quad SLI: 1061
HD3870X4: 1080
8800 Ultra Triple SLI: 1083
9800GTX Triple SLI: 1089
8800 Ultra SLI: 1109
HD4850CF: 1230
GTX280 OC: 1252
HD4870CF: 1353
HD4870X2: 1438
GTX280 OC SLI: (2560x1600 benchmarks only) 2042
GTX280 OC Triple SLI: (2560x1600 benchmarks only) 2275
HD4870X4 Crossfire X: (2560x1600 benchmarks only) 2679



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2008 @ 09:19

harvrdguy
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4. August 2008 @ 15:12 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Nice chart Sam. Are those bottom numbers theoretical? Are the boards out right now? I see 4870x2 is slightly better than 4870CF. Then I see that the two 4870x2, shown as 4870x4, scales almost linearly - virtually double a singe 4870x2. I am sure that is very game dependent, but which game(s) at this time would scale so well - not crysis, right? What about EP2? What about that new one you guys were talking about - Operation Flashpoint 2?

Regarding the 650W TX, sounds really well worth it for another $15. Yes, ultimately I would be running crossfire 4850s or 4870s or maybe they'll have a 5000 family out by then. But whatever I put in this p4 case will stay there. It will just be another spare computer that I'll save for a LAN game of condition zero, or maybe to give away. So to have all that muscle sitting in a p4 box, I just won't need it.

The new build will be a crossfire, of course. I guess no point worrying about 4 gfx capacity on the mobo since the 4850x2 and 4870x2 will be readily available by then. The new build may go with the 650W TX or maybe even something bigger. I'll probably budget $2,000 at that time. Then there is the price of a 2560x1600 monitor - I'll have to see if boozer has any at that time.
Rich
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4. August 2008 @ 15:15 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
lol

What do you do Rich?
harvrdguy
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4. August 2008 @ 15:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I sell houses. Business slowed down to a crawl with the southern cali real estate crash. I used to go after expired listings - but the new thing I'm trying is to pick up short sale listings from the NOD notices available through my title company from the tax assessor's office.
Originally posted by rich, realtor bullsh*t:
Notice of Default - people who are going to be foreclosed on in 90 days. A short sale means that if a house has $500,000 in liens from two mortgages, but it's only worth $300,000, then you try to sell it at market price, $250,000-$300,000, and you try to convince the banks to cut their loan demands so you can close escrow and pay the realtor commissions and closing costs. Benefit to bank is they don't have to foreclose, which can be costly, since they simply have to sell it anyway after foreclosing - benefit to seller versus foreclosure is less of a ding on their credit and they can buy again in 24 months. You have to establish a valid seller hardship, like somebody lost a job, etc.
Also I have a couple of buyers I'm working with.

Stick to the automobile business like your dad, Lol. Toyota has a sterling reputation.
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4. August 2008 @ 15:43 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
lol

Both my parents are Doctors. I hope to be one, one day. Inshallah.
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4. August 2008 @ 15:59 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
All the numbers are calculated from an adapted mean of various real world game tests (typically COD4, HL2:E2, Quake Wars, Crysis and UT3)
The bottom numbers aren't theoretical but they are taken from fewer benchmarks so the results are less accurate (the HD4870X4 bench is only taken from one test).

You are very right about Crysis not scaling well, the 4870X4 doesn't currently scale at all beyond the 4870X2, and the 4870X2 scales less than 50% above the 4870 in most tests.
The game that the HD4870X4 test was taken on is Age of Conan.

If you do use two 4870s Rich, you will want to consider the 750W TX, primarily because it has enough power connectors to run the cards. Despite being more than capable of powering them, the 650 only has two of the four required power connectors to run two 4870s.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
harvrdguy
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5. August 2008 @ 17:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yeah, doctor, excellent choice, Inshallah - meaning "God be willing." You didn't know I spoke Arabic did you? Lol
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harvrdguy
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5. August 2008 @ 17:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
In particular, let me recommend surgery, Inshallah! That way after you unload on a belligerent redneck with your nine, you can put the dude back together again! lol
 
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