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Changes to the rules and forum functions -- please read!
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Admin
9 product reviews
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16. August 2004 @ 12:05 |
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The forum rules have been clarified as far as the "No piracy" rule goes. Please see
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
for the complete rules. We have tried to clarify the rule by the following case examples:
Case examples regarding rule number five (5). No piracy.
Case: Pirated material, such as serial numbers and direct links to pirated, copyrighted material (including direct links to torrent files and ed2k links). PROHIBITED
Case: Technical, in depth discussion about copy protection circumvention (i.e. cracking). PROHIBITED
Case: Discussion about pirated content and piracy, such as converting (downloaded) video and/or audio files to DVD/AudioCD/whatever format. PERMITTED
Case: Discussion about copy protection circumvention in general (extracting encrypted content, such as DVD movies, compact discs, copy protected console and computer software, using existing software). PERMITTED
Case: Links to sites offering possibly pirated content (including torrent files and ed2k links). PERMITTED
Also the forums now include a Report an offensive post function which you can see at the top of each message, in the date field.
Using this function you can report a post to the forum administrators and moderators. If you see a message that you think that breaks the forum rules, use this link! Please do not post a reply to the thread saying that the mesasge breaks the rules -- it is the responsibility of the admins and moderators to moderate the forums.
Thank you for your attention. Happy foruming!
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Staff Member
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16. August 2004 @ 13:36 |
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Excellent Ketola, absolutely excellent!
For future reference of moderators here i have just a couple of things to say.....
1. Lately there has been a lot of "newbie bashing" and stupid "weed out" games on the forum that give the forum a bad hostile look and caused many newbies not to return, in future will there be a rules change or warnings that will stop this behaviour by threatening some form of disciplinary action?
2. In the case of a rule breaking post, wouldn't I be right in saying that if the post is not very bad, that just like in the old days a verbal warning might be the best choice as opposed to bashing and banning immediately?
3. Is there any chance for users to have an "report an offensive private message" feature, where the bad PM will make its way to the Mods/Admins including a short reason why thios PM was offensive?
Just thought those 3 q's needed to be asked! :-)
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Admin
9 product reviews
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16. August 2004 @ 14:57 |
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Quote:
1. Lately there has been a lot of "newbie bashing" and stupid "weed out" games on the forum that give the forum a bad hostile look and caused many newbies not to return, in future will there be a rules change or warnings that will stop this behaviour by threatening some form of disciplinary action?
"Newbie bashing" is not and will not be tolerated. It is already, although indirectly, prohibited by a rule -- 8. Don't reply with an off-topic comment/question. If necessary, an additional "Instruct and educate -- don't just shoot first and ask questions later" rule will be implemented.
Quote:
2. In the case of a rule breaking post, wouldn't I be right in saying that if the post is not very bad, that just like in the old days a verbal warning might be the best choice as opposed to bashing and banning immediately?
Yes. Only repeated and/or glaring rule-breaking posts should lead to a ban. Everyone has the right to learn from their mistakes.
Quote:
3. Is there any chance for users to have an "report an offensive private message" feature, where the bad PM will make its way to the Mods/Admins including a short reason why thios PM was offensive?
I don't really see the need for a separate feature. If numerous offensive PMs appear, an admin (me or dRD) should be contacted directly. Moderators have no say in private messages, and as you know, moderators have no means of viewing private threads.
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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16. August 2004 @ 16:36 |
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I lose my internet connection for a few days and AD gets another good feature. Cool! I, for one, am very happy about both the rules clarification and the Report to Moderator feature. Hopefully the former will help clear up some misunderstandings and the latter will be needed as little as possible ;-)
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ispy
Member
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16. August 2004 @ 22:54 |
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Thanks for putting the "Report an offensive post" link its good in that it may discourage posting of cracks etc.Last week I did PM a Mod about a crack post.
Regards Simon
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Veblin
Senior Member
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17. August 2004 @ 07:02 |
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I was wondering if the "Report an offensive post" link could sometime be changed to an icon with a pop-up message like those used for Edit or PM.
I just think a icon would look better and look less threatening than all those "Report an offensive post" links.
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I hate titles
35 product reviews
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17. August 2004 @ 09:22 |
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Veblin: I think it is difficult to find an icon that would make it obvious to even new users what it would be. And we want to get as much user interaction in this issue as possible.
One thing what I will still change to the system is to show the link also for users who haven't logged in, so they will be redirected to the login screen if they click it.
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Veblin
Senior Member
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17. August 2004 @ 09:46 |
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I think an icon could work. Most browsers have the alternate text that shows when an icon is pointed at (if it is not disabled).
I'm not sure that we need to worry about a few new users not knowing how to report offensive posts, because there are more than enough experienced users who can and will report those sort of posts.
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Senior Member
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17. August 2004 @ 15:24 |
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Having now looked at these new rules i think it makes great improvement and will be more welcoming to all who visit the site.Having being going off the old rules in the past iam glad that the new one's were pointed out to me.To be honest i do not know if i recieved a mail indicating the new rules or not as i have had a few problems with mail just recently.Was the new rules sent out to everyone like in a post like a news letter is.If not would this not help a great deal because to be honest i don't check the rules each time i visit but i will now monitor more often.Some people still go by the old rules so it could be a good thing just to post them to all so everyone is clear what they are.
Thanks
John179
i9 9900K CPU,ASUS MAXIMUS XI HERO Mobo, Fractal R6 Case,
Corsair H115I ,Corsair RM Series 850W psu,
RTX 3080 Ti ,Corsair DDR4 Vengeance RGB PRO 32GB 1TB Intel SSD 660p Series,1TB M.2 ,36TB Seagate HD,19TB Ext, LG BH16NS40 BD-RW,Creative Sound Blaster Zx 116dB Sound Card, Acer Predator XB321HK 32inch 4K Monitor, 2TB PS4
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Admin
9 product reviews
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18. August 2004 @ 16:05 |
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John179,
A notification of the changes is being mailed to all active users as I write it. Hopefully you have received it as well! =)
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tinfoil
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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18. August 2004 @ 16:36 |
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Good call, Ketola, though I wonder about this one:
Case: Discussion about pirated content and piracy, such as converting (downloaded) video and/or audio files to DVD/AudioCD/whatever format. PERMITTED
especially considering the first two cases.
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Admin
9 product reviews
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18. August 2004 @ 17:26 |
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Quote:
I wonder about this one:
Case: Discussion about pirated content and piracy, such as converting (downloaded) video and/or audio files to DVD/AudioCD/whatever format. PERMITTED
especially considering the first two cases.
I don't see how either of the first cases would rule out the third case. Pirated material == posting copyrighted content directly on the forum. Discussion about pirated material == discussion regarding the material.
Let's take a piece of software as an example. Posting a link to a pirated piece of software is not allowed, but asking for help on how to acquire, install or use pirated software is. It goes without saying that making such posts makes little sense, and it's highly unlikely that such messages would be well received, but they will nevertheless not lead to a direct ban unless some other rule is broken.
Of course we could replace all the rules with "Use your head -- post smart." but I'm pretty sure we all know how that would work..
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Moderator
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18. August 2004 @ 18:12 |
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I think the new rules are great! The new reporting feature is very nice indeed. I think relaxation of the rules might also slow down the fighting that has been going on lately, I hope anyway. I'd almost tired of banning people, well ok not really but i'm tired of having to give possible good members the boot! i think the new and improved "aD atmosphere" will help decrease the bitching and whining and fighting like little girls. If a newb screws up, so what. We all were at one time.
**Disclaimer - The above post in no way means That you wont be "peacefully removed" if you grossly violate the forum rules. Play smart, learn well, have a good game. :)
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore) |
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karen2003
Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:38 |
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OK, I don't mean to be an old fart here, but I'm really surprised and to be honest very disappointed in the new rules. Am I the only one who sees a problem with encouraging piracy? I think the 3rd case, "Discussion about pirated content and piracy, such as converting (downloaded) video and/or audio files to DVD/AudioCD/whatever format. PERMITTED", clearly does this.
This discussion reminds me of a "60 Minutes" piece that they just did last week on piracy. They interviewed an owner of some online download service (sorry, can't remember which one) who said, "We have no idea what people are doing with our software." Wink, wink. The ONLY purpose of his software was to help people download pirated movies; there was and is absolutely no other purpose. So to pretend that he had no idea what was going on was disingenuous to say the least.
I know that Afterdawn isn't meant to be the Internet police. But in the U.S. anyway, piracy is illegal, and for these forums to now say, "OK, we won't give you links to sites, but we'll tell you all you need to know about how to make your pirated files into DVDs," well, what else is that except encouraging piracy?
And I know these forums are international and maybe not all countries have laws against piracy. But wow, I'm surprised and, as I said, disappointed in the changes.
Just my 2 cents' worth. Go ahead and call me an old fart, I called myself that. :-)
Thanks for listening.
Karen H.--Dell Optiplex GX240, P4 1.50ghz, 256mb RAM (yeah, I need more), Windows XP Pro w/SP1, 80gb c: drive (replaced the 20gb c: that crashed), 126gb i: drive, 124gb j: drive, 500gb external hard drive partitioned into k: and l: drives, Sony DDU1621/C1 DVD-ROM to rip/encode, Sony DRX-530UL to burn, new Sony DRX-840U to burn DL discs ... need a new computer to go with it!!
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drchips
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:53 |
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Hiya Folks,
I personally tend to lean towards Karen's viewpoint on this...
The clarification on what is permitted and what is not is welcome and probably A Good Thing (tm).
The way I shall be dealing with it is:
Where a rule PROHIBITS something - I shall abide by the rule.
Where a rule PERMITS something AND I personally disagree with the rule - I will keep my counsel (choose NOT to assist)
that way rule-based conflict is avoided,
my own standards are not compromised,
the community continues to function in the way the community leaders intend.
Nice move on the "report" feature, can we use it for SCAM artistes??
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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samintx
Member
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18. August 2004 @ 19:01 |
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Gosh, I'm afraid to post or ask a question after reading the new rules. I will not intentionally break the rules. I agree there have to be guidelines.
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Newbie
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18. August 2004 @ 19:17 |
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Quote:
Case: Links to sites offering possibly pirated content (including torrent files and ed2k links). PERMITTED
So, if we know a link to site that buys/sells/trades in backups....it can now be posted?
Fear is Not a Factor for Me.
hornetsting@gmail.com
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Motomatt
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 19:27 |
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Case: Links to sites offering possibly pirated content
(including torrent files and ed2k links).
PERMITTED
I was a little more concerned about this one? People are allowed to post links to pirated software now?
Am I mis-understanding something here?
Do we really need stuff like this in the forum?
Why would you want to allow posts to pirated material?
Matt
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samintx
Member
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18. August 2004 @ 19:34 |
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I don't even know of any websites that offer pirated material or whatever. I'm a dummie
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Newbie
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18. August 2004 @ 20:07 |
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I do, but I've always thought it was considered taboo to post links to them?
Fear is Not a Factor for Me.
hornetsting@gmail.com
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Moderator
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18. August 2004 @ 20:40 |
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i think the rule sounds more relaxed than it really is (or at least i hope). If a person came in and said "i just downloaded goodfellas and dont know how to covert it to DVD" he would get his ass ripped by 5 people and learn nothing. The way I'm seeing the new rule, we cant just assume that this person does not own this DVD and it's really not worth watching 5 people bitch at him to find out. Just tell him we got great info here already on converting video formats so try the search function, and mention we also have a forum dedicated to backing up your own DVD's. then move along.
Now if someone comes in and says " I got every xbox and PS2 game, and every movie in the theaters right now for $1 each", I'd probably ban them. Each situation is different and needs to be handled according to what is going on, rather than just biting someone's head off because they said they downloaded a video.
I see copy protection circumvention discussions the same way. Almost every game, app, and DVD has some sort of protection. If I have to break that protection in order to make a backup and protect my grossly overpriced investment, so be it. But I wouldn't run around saying "hey you can go to the video store and copy every damn thing they have instead of buying it".
I hope that made sense, i do not promote piracy. If my views on these new rules are wrong, and i'm not seeing them clearly as they are, I'm sure I will be corrected. I think the new rules are great, and I want to enforce them correctly.
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)
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karen2003
Member
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18. August 2004 @ 22:56 |
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Darthnip, I appreciate your point of view. But my point is, if someone did what you suggested -- wrote that he'd just downloaded "Goodfellas" and asked how could he convert it -- he would now NOT be breaking any rules, so why would 5 people rip him? (And of COURSE he doesn't own it -- he downloaded it!!) Again, according to the new rules, he's now not doing anything wrong by asking how he can take his illegal downloaded movie and make it into a DVD. Unless he's making a back-up of something he owns -- in which case he won't have a bunch of .AVI or winrar files or whatever -- he has done something illegal (at least in the U.S.). And anyone who tells him how to take his illegal download and make it into a DVD is, IMHO, encouraging his piracy. I don't see how there's any way around that or any other way to interpret it. People (not you specifically) might think that there's nothing wrong with piracy, but at least call it what it is.
One quick point. You wrote that under the new rules, even if someone wrote that he downloaded "Goodfellas,"
"we can't just assume that this person does not own this DVD." I think if someone is talking about downloading movies, of course he doesn't own them UNLESS it's a very old movie that's in the public domain & he downloaded that (and there are very few sites that offer those -- any movie that came out in the past 30-40 years would definitely not be in the public domain). All other downloads are illegal at this time, at least in the U.S. And when the piracy sites say "100% legal," they're referring to their software, which technically is legal -- they're NOT referring to what people DO with their software, whose ONLY use is piracy. It's a slippery (slimy IMO) way for the site owners to say "We have no idea what's going on, we just provide the software."
And this is why I am extremely disappointed in the new rules. I think we're going to see a lot more pirates learning how to be better pirates, and there is now no rule at all to prevent them from doing so. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this rule was changed.
Karen H.--Dell Optiplex GX240, P4 1.50ghz, 256mb RAM (yeah, I need more), Windows XP Pro w/SP1, 80gb c: drive (replaced the 20gb c: that crashed), 126gb i: drive, 124gb j: drive, 500gb external hard drive partitioned into k: and l: drives, Sony DDU1621/C1 DVD-ROM to rip/encode, Sony DRX-530UL to burn, new Sony DRX-840U to burn DL discs ... need a new computer to go with it!!
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Moderator
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18. August 2004 @ 23:00 |
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I like drchips way ...
Quote:
Where a rule PROHIBITS something - I shall abide by the rule.
Where a rule PERMITS something AND I personally disagree with the rule - I will keep my counsel (choose NOT to assist)
that way rule-based conflict is avoided,
my own standards are not compromised,
the community continues to function in the way the community leaders intend.
Quote:
Just tell him we got great info here already on converting video formats so try the search function, and mention we also have a forum dedicated to backing up your own DVD's. then move along.
darthnip, ... the "search" function. People don't use it, and when they do it's hard to find the right thread because of how people title the threads. How many times have you seen this title "help"? And, you say move on .... if that member doesn't get the help he need, then they start multi posting.
I do like the "report an offensive post", but I hope I don't get reported because I ask someone if they can read. Nothing is more frustrating when your helping someone and they keep asking you the same question. Some people are more sensitive than others, and some let things roll off and some don't.
@Veblin, I don't think an icon will work either. Some can't even find the edit function.
Last, when I post I never intend to be offensive ... so if I am I'll just have to learn from it. BTW, what happens if you are found to be offensive?
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Staff Member
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18. August 2004 @ 23:07 |
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again....
Every country in the world has gotten different laws regarding "piracy". In some countries downloading movies is completely LEGAL like Finland for example (where Afterdawn Ltd. is based). Just because the country you or I live in says its illegal doesn't mean that it should be illegal for the whole world! Regardless of the size of your country or powers that influence your laws!
You tell Ketola to change Case 3 to prohibited, would be to ask him to remove DeCSS from the software section, any guides for DivX to DVD/SVCD/VCD etc, this is the way aD has been since the forums came and I'm VERY VERY sure it wont change unless the entire internet one day falls under 1 set of laws!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 23:11
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karen2003
Member
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18. August 2004 @ 23:13 |
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OK, this is why I specified the U.S. AND noted that of course Afterdawn is an international forum. I know some people don't think piracy is a big deal or should be illegal. I do on both counts. I respect your opinion, I just disagree.
Karen H.--Dell Optiplex GX240, P4 1.50ghz, 256mb RAM (yeah, I need more), Windows XP Pro w/SP1, 80gb c: drive (replaced the 20gb c: that crashed), 126gb i: drive, 124gb j: drive, 500gb external hard drive partitioned into k: and l: drives, Sony DDU1621/C1 DVD-ROM to rip/encode, Sony DRX-530UL to burn, new Sony DRX-840U to burn DL discs ... need a new computer to go with it!!
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