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The Official GT4 Thread
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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25. March 2005 @ 15:24 |
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hey nick, didn't mean to offend man. sorry. and don't ever quit trying to help. even if some guy starts being an A-hole on purpose and says worse crap than i did (again didn't mean to be that harsh. just re-read my post, didn't like it much myself). everyone trying to contribute is what makes these forums work and is why they're so great. Unfortunatly even if your hdd backup works it does me no good cause i don't have a hdd. i'm using SMDs with a fliptop. anyway, once again, i'm sorry didn't mean to come off as a pr*ck.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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nickmo05
Suspended permanently
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25. March 2005 @ 16:43 |
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Its cool man cause I know I overeacted about all the ish. I only know what I know and it may not be much but someone will probably just use my little knowledge and creat one that works without the hd. I have no other way to swap my disc and see if it works by itself cause I cannot swap dvdr's with my sbox chip. So I have to use my hd for dvd games. something tells me it would work but if it would then maybe it would have been done already, I dont know. Its all Good
I really appreciate the help.
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Cytrik
Newbie
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25. March 2005 @ 19:56 |
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I heard that The Matrix Team is going to have a patch for the Matrix Infinity also. Is this true?
PS2 v12 Matrix Infinity 1.39f
ownage
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RemyK313
Member
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25. March 2005 @ 21:40 |
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So..... when and where exactly did Team Toxic release their DVD9 patches/firmware? I haven't heard anything more than the rumor that they were planning on releasing firmware for the DMS4 and a DVD9 ISO patcher in the future.
I really hate how people spread rumors and misinformation, though.
Most of the things said in this thread have already been said. The PTP/OTP issue has been beaten to death, and for the most part it's been proven to be nothing more than an empty rumor. The main problem has been with DVD checks and the inability to fake DVD9 TOCs.
The "rumor" or idea that you can simply burn each layer to a DVD and play it that way has also been done, in fact, it was one of the first to be proven.
If you have a direct-boot mod chip, you can simply burn each layer of the game to a DVD, and press the eject button to swap discs between menus, movies, and races.
This was first discussed in the first large GT4 discussion, and was proven later in the same discussion. The reason no one talks about it anymore is because it is NOT a practical way to play the game.
One or two, or even three swaps is fine for most people, but when you have to swap every 2 or 3 minutes, it gets quite annoying. This is why no one talks about this anymore. Also, it does nothing for people who don't have modchips that let them eject their games without crashing, or for Swap Magic users.
The other thing I love is how people don't read entire threads. It's stupid to post in a thread if you haven't read it all, a question you'll ask has probably already been answered.
The other is the quick conclusions and theories that people have. Especially when it comes to cross-forum users. I saw someone directly quoting me in another forum on instructions on how to rip Xenosaga to 3 DVDs, they tried to relate it to how you could get GT4 to work. Not only did they not even get the entire post, the instructions I posted don't work. They'll produce three DVDs, and they will play, but there are some very serious issues with that game.
Anyways, I think it'd be prudent for some of the more knowledgeable users interested in this problem to simply stop answering and discussing the answers that people were asking back in January.
Even though I've been watching this thread like a hawk, all it seems to bring me is this most severe displeasure. From both the lack of knowledge in what it takes to get this game to work, to the lack of research done on the part of quite a few of the newbs here, to just..... ick, the slaughtering of the English language that's been shown here.
I mean, I don't have a problem with people whose language is not natively English, my problem is with all of the people who are discussing things with the mindset of a thirteen year old.
I mean, the "disses" and "isht" that happens here is the kind of thing that should be left in the lunchroom, kids.
I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was closed just like the last one.
And Cytrik : I haven't actually found anything of the sort for Matrix Infinity chips. The chips claim support for original DVD9 games, but no one's said a word about anything coming up for playing DVD+R DLs.
I imagine that after Team Toxic releases something, they'll explain how they did it, and everyone else will be brought into the light on how to defeat this problem...... or something.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. March 2005 @ 21:44
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gtr2005
Newbie
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26. March 2005 @ 05:44 |
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possibly way off the mark here but... we know that the ps2 can only read dual layer pressed discs because they are read inside to out on both layers, while burned DL discs are inside to out on layer1 and outside to in on layer2. so has anyone tried reversing the layer 2 data then burning the modified layer2? ie the first sector of layer 2 would be reversed from the outside of the disc to the inside and so the ps2 wouldn't get confused? just a thought...
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26. March 2005 @ 06:23 |
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thats not actually true that PS2 can only read DL discs because ppl have burn GT4 onto DL n they manage to get to the first screen like every1 else thus burnt DL can be read by PS2's
PS2 V10 MC Xploit 250GB HDD
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gtr2005
Newbie
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26. March 2005 @ 06:25 |
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yeah i see you're point but is the problem not that the ps2 can read off the first layer fine, which is why the game boots so far, then it tries to read off the second layer, gets lost due to the inside/outside thing, and freezes up?
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 07:29 |
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Again, i don't think it's the OTP/PTP issue with the dl discs. it's the disc checks. people have had limited success with driiferent methods all of which seem to point to the disc checks as the problem NOT the direction of the second layer.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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Rickerman
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. March 2005 @ 08:49 |
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I recall from the other thread that somebody actually burnt the game in PTP format using Gear Mastering Pro software. And the game still didn't work.
Also I think that it was mentioned that it would be very difficult to reverse the 2nd layer (or maybe somebody did it already) but I still dont think it would work :(
I think the best bet is to wait and see if somebody can remove the DVD checks. Or have a go yourself!
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 10:27 |
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Rickerman is right. Some (if not ALL) of the best out there are working on this problem. Within hours of them solving this dilema I'm sure we'll all be hearing about it. And there will be great rejoicing.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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samuels
Suspended permanently
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26. March 2005 @ 10:31 |
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So..... when and where exactly did Team Toxic release their DVD9 patches/firmware? I haven't heard anything more than the rumor that they were planning on releasing firmware for the DMS4 and a DVD9 ISO patcher in the future.
I really hate how people spread rumors and misinformation, though.
Most of the things said in this thread have already been said. The PTP/OTP issue has been beaten to death, and for the most part it's been proven to be nothing more than an empty rumor. The main problem has been with DVD checks and the inability to fake DVD9 TOCs.
The "rumor" or idea that you can simply burn each layer to a DVD and play it that way has also been done, in fact, it was one of the first to be proven.
If you have a direct-boot mod chip, you can simply burn each layer of the game to a DVD, and press the eject button to swap discs between menus, movies, and races.
This was first discussed in the first large GT4 discussion, and was proven later in the same discussion. The reason no one talks about it anymore is because it is NOT a practical way to play the game.
One or two, or even three swaps is fine for most people, but when you have to swap every 2 or 3 minutes, it gets quite annoying. This is why no one talks about this anymore. Also, it does nothing for people who don't have modchips that let them eject their games without crashing, or for Swap Magic users.
The other thing I love is how people don't read entire threads. It's stupid to post in a thread if you haven't read it all, a question you'll ask has probably already been answered.
The other is the quick conclusions and theories that people have. Especially when it comes to cross-forum users. I saw someone directly quoting me in another forum on instructions on how to rip Xenosaga to 3 DVDs, they tried to relate it to how you could get GT4 to work. Not only did they not even get the entire post, the instructions I posted don't work. They'll produce three DVDs, and they will play, but there are some very serious issues with that game.
Anyways, I think it'd be prudent for some of the more knowledgeable users interested in this problem to simply stop answering and discussing the answers that people were asking back in January.
Even though I've been watching this thread like a hawk, all it seems to bring me is this most severe displeasure. From both the lack of knowledge in what it takes to get this game to work, to the lack of research done on the part of quite a few of the newbs here, to just..... ick, the slaughtering of the English language that's been shown here.
I mean, I don't have a problem with people whose language is not natively English, my problem is with all of the people who are discussing things with the mindset of a thirteen year old.
I mean, the "disses" and "isht" that happens here is the kind of thing that should be left in the lunchroom, kids.
I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was closed just like the last one.
And Cytrik : I haven't actually found anything of the sort for Matrix Infinity chips. The chips claim support for original DVD9 games, but no one's said a word about anything coming up for playing DVD+R DLs.
I imagine that after Team Toxic releases something, they'll explain how they did it, and everyone else will be brought into the light on how to defeat this problem...... or something. [Quote]
so do you have anything more constructive to say...have you anything to contribute to this forum, enabling us to crack it,or ARE you one of the 13 year olds that you mentioned,some of us are that close to cracking it,it takes some nutting out...one thing that i agree on with you is rumors...especially the one about team toxic...IMHO i think thats all it is,notice nothing is out,and it's been what 2-3 weeks?
they way your post came accross to me is that we are all kids in the school gound or lunch room talk,according to you....obviously you will correct me if i'm wrong.
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dpratt
Newbie
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26. March 2005 @ 12:11 |
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let's use a little simple logic shall we? i havent tried to burn or play this game at all, but i know what the simple answer is (although i can't explain fully why the DL discs don't work). all copy protection methods have easily been cracked up until this point for ps2 games just like every other kind of games there are for any other system. copy protection can always be defeated with software, modchip firmware, or the hardware of the modchip itself. its that simple. although i dont know why it is the case, clearly the reason why GT4 is causing problems it because of the fact that it is the first ps2 disc to use DL. some of you have this stupid idea that since the game works for a few opening screens that the problem isnt the DL thing, which is ridiculous, if the game doesnt completely work then it doesnt work, end of story. do you really think that the first DL ps2 game also coincidentally has some new kind of copy protection (or checks or whatever) that is that much better than previous protections? the chances of this are so unlikely that assuming that the problem has something to do with copy protection is absolutely absurd. it is simple logic. all games were copyable before and now a new game that is burned with a different format on different discs is not copyable. it is clear that this new format is what is stopping you from being able to play the game and not some brilliant new copy protection from sony or whatever company does it for them. dont be an idiot, if they had a new protection method then they would use it on all new games which they clearly havent. it wont work because of the DL issue, and this is the only logical possibility. (there is nothing different or unique about the game besides the fact that it is the first to be burned on a dual layer disc, and so this is the only thing that can be making it uncopyable as of now).
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 12:40 |
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dpratt, sorry buddy but u are soooo wrong. GT4 is NOT the first dl disc made for ps2. Metal Gear Solid 2, Madden 2005 and Champions of Norrath are ALL dl as well. They are also, and here's the biggie, very easliy backed up. The Guy Game, Wild Arms: Alter Code F and Xenosaga Episode 1: Der Wille zur Macht are also dl, and once again very easily backed up. So one more time for those still not paying attention, it is NOT a dl OTP/PTP problem.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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dpratt
Newbie
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26. March 2005 @ 12:51 |
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perhaps it isnt simply a DL problem, but it is clearly something to do with the type of DL media and game format they are using (pressing method, data storage, etc.). the chances that they suddenly came up with some superior copy protection is slim to none. also, although the games you mentioned are DL games, they were rippable down to single layer discs, and GT4 (at least thus far, from what i can tell from forums) is not. it appears to be the first game that you would absolutely have to use a DL disc for the copy (i suspect that the solution will be some kind of method for ripping the game down so that it actually can fit on a SL dvdr).
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 12:57 |
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now yer talking. i think you and I are on the same page here. unfortunatley the general concensus thus far is that the disc checks are actually checking for the second layer (not sure if i buy that or not. I wish i knew more about the ps2 file system. i've been doing this sort of thing with computers since i was 12 years opld and using a C64 (about 20 years ago) but i know very little about ps2 stuff. learning fast, but for now am going to have to leave this one to the experts cause i've already said all that i know.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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gtr2005
Newbie
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26. March 2005 @ 13:17 |
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i didn't mean to sound stupid when i said that but just trying to gain a better understanding of the facts. i remember from ps1 that you could extract the movies and replace them with smaller files of the same name, can't remember what it was used for though. also, has it actually been verified yet that the disc specificly looks for layer 2? and if it does, (and i know its easier to say than do) is it not just a case of redirecting the game from layer 1 to layer 2? i bet $ony must get all sorts of kicks from threads like these! lol
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samuels
Suspended permanently
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26. March 2005 @ 13:37 |
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let's use a little simple logic shall we? i havent tried to burn or play this game at all, but i know what the simple answer is (although i can't explain fully why the DL discs don't work). all copy protection methods have easily been cracked up until this point for ps2 games just like every other kind of games there are for any other system. copy protection can always be defeated with software, modchip firmware, or the hardware of the modchip itself. its that simple. although i dont know why it is the case, clearly the reason why GT4 is causing problems it because of the fact that it is the first ps2 disc to use DL. some of you have this stupid idea that since the game works for a few opening screens that the problem isnt the DL thing, which is ridiculous, if the game doesnt completely work then it doesnt work, end of story. do you really think that the first DL ps2 game also coincidentally has some new kind of copy protection (or checks or whatever) that is that much better than previous protections? the chances of this are so unlikely that assuming that the problem has something to do with copy protection is absolutely absurd. it is simple logic. all games were copyable before and now a new game that is burned with a different format on different discs is not copyable. it is clear that this new format is what is stopping you from being able to play the game and not some brilliant new copy protection from sony or whatever company does it for them. dont be an idiot, if they had a new protection method then they would use it on all new games which they clearly havent. it wont work because of the DL issue, and this is the only logical possibility. (there is nothing different or unique about the game besides the fact that it is the first to be burned on a dual layer disc, and so this is the only thing that can be making it uncopyable as of now). [Quote]
OK...put it simply,there is no protection on the game...(as such)so far we know maybe not 100% absolute,but we know where we are at,this game needs a patch to try and remove media checks.your idea of the write method is wrong.....so far it has been proven that the PS2 can read copied dl b/up games,read my post some page or 2 back,i need the original to boot to next screen,this happens everytime i finish a race,etc,etc....now is it not logical and suggestive that it's DVD checks??
why is it then HK pressed discs can play,don't even say coz they have the OTP/PTP burners,because they don't!!they have the same dvd burners as you and me,assuming you have a dual format dual layered burner
you can argue all you want,but i can almost guarantee you that all the PS2 crackers can tell you all it needs is a patch,it's just going to take some time to work one out :)
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 14:10 |
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That's pretty much what i've beem saying samuels. it's all about the checks. I personally haven't ruled out the check for a second layter simply because i don't know enough about the PS2 file system or how software checks are made on the system, but i don't necessarily subscibe to the theory either. What i do know is (which is very little) is that it's got something to do with the dvd checks. But like i said before, I have very little knowlegde in this area and so am leaving to the experts like Toxic. In the meantime i'll just play from an original disc.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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samuels
Suspended permanently
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26. March 2005 @ 16:00 |
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That's pretty much what i've beem saying samuels. it's all about the checks. I personally haven't ruled out the check for a second layter simply because i don't know enough about the PS2 file system or how software checks are made on the system, but i don't necessarily subscibe to the theory either. What i do know is (which is very little) is that it's got something to do with the dvd checks. But like i said before, I have very little knowlegde in this area and so am leaving to the experts like Toxic. In the meantime i'll just play from an original disc.[Quote]
the checks from memory are only on one layer and i can't remember if its layer 0 or layer1...but we need to make that patch to get rid of them....then we are set....
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ZippoGuy
Junior Member
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26. March 2005 @ 16:45 |
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Wish there were some way i could help with that. But it's well beyond my abilities.
To all those working on this problem: Good luck and thanx for the effort.
Peace, Love, and Zippos
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Finalfan
Junior Member
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27. March 2005 @ 01:50 |
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DAMNIT! I almost did it when i put it into my ps2 it says that logo PS2 then the copyright and then nothing :(
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b!zZ
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. March 2005 @ 02:07 |
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cant u just put the files in order with cdvdgen or ISObuster
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samuels
Suspended permanently
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27. March 2005 @ 04:31 |
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cant u just put the files in order with cdvdgen or ISObuster [Quote]
you need to get rid of the dvd checks.....and put something back to try and fool the PS2,so that it thinks it's the original files to be able to continue reading
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shanlaner
Newbie
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27. March 2005 @ 09:13 |
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Can someone send me a private message to where i can obtain a pressed dvd copy of gran turismo 4, i will only be using it for backup purposes, thank you
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Moderator
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27. March 2005 @ 13:07 |
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@ shanlaner
You can buy a pressed GT4 in the store you know - it's called an original.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2005 @ 13:08
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