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Official PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. N. Revolution
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Bicoulord
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1. June 2005 @ 19:49 |
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I meant the first ps2 whoops lol
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FintheA
Newbie
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1. June 2005 @ 21:17 |
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WVengence,
I like your style as you seem to fair and balanced, now as an avowed Xbox fan let me take a stab at why the Xbox 360's Memory Bus is far better than PS3, you see that 10MB OF edram is super fast (and expensive)and since it clears and emptys fast all you need is a small amount and it allows the flow of data to be constant rather then be bus limited by taking the heavy data load of AA and rendering off the main bus and channeling it through this secondary channel, on the PS3 EVERTHING,AA rendering and CPU to memory is on the same bus and EVERYTHING crawls in the "DATA TRAFFIC JAM" also a predicition the blu-ray is going to cause such a massive recall its going to make the PSP screen deal look like chump change.
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Ludikhris
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1. June 2005 @ 21:44 |
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It is actually closer than it appears. Sony is making their system to run better, which on the outside overall it appears that way, however it will more than likely be a nominal difference. I would say the two systems are going to be so close in performance it is going to all come down to amount of games. Both systems are saying they will be easy to make games for but XBOX really has the upper hand there. However think about the millions of people that already own a PS2, sure there are a lot of XBOXs out there but there are more than twice as many PS2s, and many of those sales are going to result in repeat customers. There will be a few of those repeaters that go to XBOX though because it will be out first. Even with that PS3 will still probably have more sales than XBOX in the initial market because lets face it, Sony is a marketing powerhouse, one that most magazines said made themselves look much more powerful than XBOX360 (though even I, a Sony supporter, realize its not as powerful as Sony says it is). My point being, game manufacturers want to make games that will sell, in order for people to buy games they must have the console. Hence why Sony had record sales in consoles (catch 22, you need console sales to get games, you need games to get console sales) therefore Sony is poised to get more software support from the big names. I think however, that it will even out as time progresses and this round will come much closer than previous rounds. In fact I think this time around it will be the closest console war ever. SNES and Genesis comes to mind, but Nintendo still kicked a$$. N64 and PSX were close at first, but Sony ran away with that one. Who knows, maybe Nintendo will run away with this round. We all know N64 was a better system than PSX, way better, but Sony still mopped the flow with Nintendo on their first try.
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jimmer
Newbie
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2. June 2005 @ 01:12 |
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>_< doh!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. June 2005 @ 01:31
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WVengence
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2. June 2005 @ 04:12 |
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FintheA: Not too bad. That is the jist of it, although it also includes the fact that the 10 EDRAM can do ALOT of functions that have to be handled by the CPU/GPU in the PS3.
Personally, I do believe that the PS3 Cell is probably faster (and the RSX may be too) BUT with a combination of the procedural synthesis & XNA in software, plus the unique ATI design in hardware, I don't believe that the 360 will need to work as hard for the same level of graphics. No doubt that the two will be quite comparible (PS3 getting it's power from hardware, 360 from software) so it will come down to games and services.
This is one of the main reasons I'm behind th 360. Live is a great service and stands to become even greater. Sony seems to think that repeating the PS2 for online service is fine and I don't agree with that and don't have anything close to it currently.
Admittedly, I am not a fan of the Blue Ray inclusion for two reasons. 1. It may very well be faulty. Let's face facts and say that Sony doesn't have a good track record for producing new technology. The PSP screens being one example and the PS2's up until V4 or so would die rapidly. 2. The main reason that Sony is including BD-DVD is to get their media format out there in the hopes of shoving it down consummers throats and therefor pushing HD-DVD out by sheer numbers. I would prefer to have the choice at that point instead of paying extra $ just so I can help Sony get a proprietary media format so they can soak me for extra $.
Before someone points it out, I know MS can do the same with Live, but they atleast offer you the choice of joining or not and if you want to get extra content.
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Ludikhris
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2. June 2005 @ 10:02 |
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http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9265
WHAT!?!?!?! This is CRAZY!!!!
Im sorry Sony, but dont even THINK about not including a hard drive in the PS3. Making it expandable means that it may not be directly used, meaning we may loose TONS of features. Suddenly 360 doesnt sound as bad.....
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WVengence
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2. June 2005 @ 11:18 |
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Now, not to say I told you so, but I believe I told you so... :)
Actually, I was just talking about the performance impact of no drive caching, but the breakdown in multimedia features, OS updates and the like is significant as well. Thanks for the link Ludikhris.
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jon_daqb
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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2. June 2005 @ 12:56 |
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i love da xbox so i buyin dabox 360 so can it really burn dvd/cd's i heard anout the ipod features thats so sik i wont waste memory on my cpu space on music and porn no,ore it goe all on da boxx So box is better bitch's fuk ps2
J.Feez rolls wit da box till da end baby
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Senior Member
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2. June 2005 @ 15:36 |
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this is starting to get out of hand. im a sony fan boy but im all juiced after the heavy price tag of the psp. i think i might stick with the 360.30% chance of getting a 360. 60%of ps3.10% wait till they are both cheaper 5 years later.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. June 2005 @ 12:09
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mikey88
Newbie
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2. June 2005 @ 16:12 |
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Agreed this is getting out of hand... from what I've read the stats seem so similar. I think the Xbox is a multipurpose box, and the ps3 is designed solely for games.
But since I really just play fighting games and tekken is my fav game the choice is easy for me.
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Ludikhris
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2. June 2005 @ 21:42 |
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My concern over the whole hard drive thing is that there will not be support for it when the PS3 comes out.... If it is not bundled, many of the software companies will be less inclined to create software utilizing it. This seems like a major draw back. However, if they are making it as important as a memory card (which it kinda sounds like they are doing it separate like that in order to match MS's 360 price) then I dont mind spending the extra money to buy something that is a necessary part. (how many people own a PS2 and no memory card?) Ill have to wait and watch because it is one thing I have to admit will cause problem for my decision.
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WVengence
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3. June 2005 @ 04:03 |
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The problem there, Ludikhris, is that by saying the HDD is a requirement and you have to buy it seperately, your going to wind up irritating even more people.
They would be saying that "Gee, we are selling the PS3 (Without HDD) for $370 to be competative, but you gotta go out and buy a HDD for an extra $100 before you can do anything. So it's actually $470, but we're trying to trick you into thinking it's not."
Otherwise, your right. Developers won't write programs that use a HDD because they'll never be certain that there is one there.
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syntheti
Junior Member
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3. June 2005 @ 07:44 |
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it will end up like the ps2
only 1 game really uses it
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rap4life
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3. June 2005 @ 13:07 |
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Quote:
Agreed this is getting out of hand... from what I've read the stats seem so similar. I think the Xbox is a multipurpose box, and the ps3 is designed solely for games.
im a X Box and MS fan. MS is saying 360 will before intertament and i agree u will be able to connet to PSP, Ipod, and to computer. The controllers might be able to play PC games on Long horn(new MS windows). since u can put i pods you will be able to put MPS with better sound quallity. you can put diff. covers on the console it self, and what u see on the screen. u can have it vertical or horizontal. Eveygame you will be able to play the music you will like, Rap for halo 3. rock in Fable 2. Pop in one of the japanese copany RPG for only 360.
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cmmnsense
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3. June 2005 @ 20:03 |
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I haven't really check this thread out for a really long while because it become a blabbersome and un-intelligent flame-fest without backing on most facts "leaks etc. Checking on it i just ran through it to se how many more post there were thefacts post really stood out. I hope none of you think it made sense because it didn't. This sounds like someone mid-way into a CS deg. or just reading on it and trying to make sense of basic spec sheets because he/she is a xbox fanboy. Your post thefacts, had computer terms that don't even show up on any released spec sheet. All the things you say are so much better, aren't even on the spec sheet. The internals beyond the spec sheet our on other computers so don't think you can take specs from IBMs cell processor cause it's way different. I doubt anyone read through your flaming post because it made no sense to anyone versed in computer science and the specs were made up. Don't try and call a SPE something else because your just making yourself sound really dumb. I am not going any further because you/flaming is not worth my time.
Unadulterated statement:
Anyone who thinks the overall videogame performance of the Xbox 360 is better than that of the PS3 is simply a xbox fanboy. That's great though, if you you like it better go forit, just don't claim it's hardware is better, please.
Bottomline:
Flaming on this thread is already bad, at least don't make up specs and fatcs that aren't true. i.e. the cell processor stomps the xbox 360's, and don't tell people the SPEs don't have cache, because they each do, and you are really a dumbass for not reading about the PS3s cell processor completely. (It's not called cache, but is the same on a smaller level for each SPE)
Flame on
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Senior Member
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3. June 2005 @ 23:47 |
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I dont know if it has been said here already, but I dont know if any heard about the interview with the creator of Metal Gear, Hideo Kojima, but check out this nugget from ps2.boomtoon.net:
Are the new console platforms fulfilling what it?s makers promise?
I actually haven?t started developing on the new consoles yet. My impression is, for PS3 Sony is aiming for a very high level. I?m not sure if everyone can live up to that high standard that Sony is expecting. So if everyone is expected to meet that high level, I am not sure that every creator, every publisher will be able to meet these high expectations. For Xbox 360, it?s a little bit more down to earth, more realistic so people maybe can join easily to start creating on the 360.
very interesting it almost sounds as if he as doubts about the ps3. could it be more unfulfilled promises from $ony?
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rap4life
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4. June 2005 @ 03:42 |
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Quote:
I dont know if it has been said here already, but I dont know if any heard about the interview with the creator of Metal Gear, Hideo Kojima, but check out this nugget from ps2.boomtoon.net:
Are the new console platforms fulfilling what it?s makers promise?
I actually haven?t started developing on the new consoles yet. My impression is, for PS3 Sony is aiming for a very high level. I?m not sure if everyone can live up to that high standard that Sony is expecting. So if everyone is expected to meet that high level, I am not sure that every creator, every publisher will be able to meet these high expectations. For Xbox 360, it?s a little bit more down to earth, more realistic so people maybe can join easily to start creating on the 360.
very interesting it almost sounds as if he as doubts about the ps3. could it be more unfulfilled promises from $ony?
i had the whole thing on this even the dinner thing.
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rap4life
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4. June 2005 @ 04:24 |
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Quote:
Unadulterated statement:
Anyone who thinks the overall videogame performance of the Xbox 360 is better than that of the PS3 is simply a xbox fanboy. That's great though, if you you like it better go forit, just don't claim it's hardware is better, please.
Do you know all 3 company that made the Cells? i do 1 Sony 2 IBM and 3 Sony. 2 of 3 companys are in Laptops cells arent made for gaming but for running laptops.
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Grunt14
Junior Member
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4. June 2005 @ 20:09 |
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rap4life, The third one from what i know is Toshiba. I don't know about you guys, but what i'm hearing from all this talk. Is that Sony is about to make the biggest mistake in gaming history. Now maybe you guys know better, and i'm just using a bit of wishful thinking. But from what your all saying it just seems a little to OBVIOUS to not notice on sony's behalf. I'm not saying your all lying though!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. June 2005 @ 12:10
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rap4life
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4. June 2005 @ 23:56 |
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what im hearing from all this info is that sony is doing very bad and i dont know how bad it is. But sony is not Putting the Hard Drive. some ppl are saying to make it closer in price to the 360 but sony didnt say anything about lowering it price, so i would say it is to save money, not to make the PS3 cheaper. PS3 is not make the biggest mistake, but the PS3 is coming out when sony is losing money buy the day trying to fight a law suit, they just spent alot of money on the cells. the PSP is a big lose for Sony. All this with in a year can kill a company if it wasnt a big company like sony it would have been doom along time ago. But sony will always live on in the cell. The cell is very powerfull but i think sony is going to releace it to early maybe because they cant wait that long because maybe they need money fast.
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EVILZED
Account closed as per user's own request
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5. June 2005 @ 03:27 |
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i want ps3
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Ludikhris
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5. June 2005 @ 11:31 |
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I think everyone is taking this all the wrong way. Sony has not said "We are not going to include a Hard Drive in the PS3" This is from the article on gamesindustry.biz
Quote:
Speaking in the pages of Japanese magazine Famitsu, Chatani said that a strategy had "yet to be decided", but added that he felt people would want to upgrade to higher capacity drives - the implication being that Sony would shy away from making the hard disk unit an obligatory part of the PlayStation 3 launch package.
Now the possibility that there may not be one upsets me however there is hardly implication that there wont be one. To say "our HD strategy is yet to be decided" could mean a thousand different things for instance maybe they are not deliberating if they will have one, but what size they will use. Seriously, it wont cost them more than a few bucks to throw it in the the retail bundle. It seems just stupid to not add one, even if people want to upgrade the original one, at least a small one (like 360s 20gig) would do. I plan to go at least 100gb+ eventually, but I would want a small one bundled. I think Sony realizes this.
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5. June 2005 @ 13:51 |
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wow i agree with cmmnsense, it seems to me that no1 is giving in to nething. xbox fanboys just keeping goin on on how great xbox 360 will be and PS3 fans do the same about PS3. personally i love the xbox and im prolly not gonna buy the PS3. I dont see why ppl have to argue about which one will have the bigger processor chip or w/e. Just state facts u know are true that way no1 can bite at it and say that its not. Basically if ur gonna fight about which one is the best make sure u know wat ur talking about and dont BS other ppl.
Gamertag:xMaverick24x
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cmmnsense
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5. June 2005 @ 16:33 |
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Kojima is refering to how much work it would take to create a game that uses all of the PS3's potential, but the Xbox 360 would be easier. PS3 games don't have to max out the capabilities, they can design a game with the same graphics etc. as the 360 would use, an the PS3 would play it, it just wouldn't be pushing the limits of the PS3's capabilities like Sony would want games to do. It's kind of like playing a PS1 game on the PS2 (except the xbox 360 and PS3 won't be even close to that far apart in capabilities).
rap4life, the PSP was not a lose at all for sony, it sold half of units avail. in two days and continues to sell steady. Just because it didn't sell out doesn't mean Sony isn't cashing in on the units sold. Games and accesories along with actual unit salse are helping Sony out big time, especially after that dualshock lawsuit(damn, 90 mill?). PSP didn't do as hoped, but is like many of it's other hundreds of products, raking in money.
That's great you know where the cells are coming from, does it matter? Not really, I just know the types and specs and the machines they're showing up on.
I seriously doubt Sony is making a mistake, there is alot of money and alot of people in America (PS3 will be top in Japan for sure). Some people will buy the PS3 and xbox 360 both because they have the money, others will buy it because it cost more so they'll assume it's "better" (even though it is in hardware dept.) others will buy their system because they're fans, and still others will buy the more affordable one (most likely, but not proved to be the xbox 360). Both companies are going to cash in because each side appeals to different and the same audiences. I know I'm buying both.
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WVengence
Member
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6. June 2005 @ 11:09 |
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Ludikhris: While I do agree that Sony 'could' add a HDD, it does seem pretty unlikely at this time.
If they were planning to add a HDD, then they could have gone the route of MS and said "We are including a 20GB drive and if you want something bigger, then it will be available for purchase"
That would say that they are including a drive and you could STILL buy a bigger one if you wanted to spend the $$$. By saying "We have yet to determine..." They are pretty much implying that they don't want to include a drive, probably won't include a drive but still might cave if there is a large enough demand (Which, I note, is what happened with the 360).
I think that in the end, Sony is twisting in the wind a little. They came out and said that they were including all this nice hardware that's really flashy and said they would sell it for under $500. When nearly everyone said that it was WAY too much and they wouldn't buy it, Sony now has to try and figure out what to cut out to bring down the cost.
Now for Cmmnsense...
Out of curiosity, what job is it that you have allowing you such indepth knowledge of both the PPE'S & Cell? Back to your unadulterated statement... How exactly do you justify that statement. Obviously, you believe it to be true, but that doesn't make it so. First off, assuming that the hardware specs are accurate (and one of the two companies is well known for exagurating) it still doesn't mean that the hardware is better. Sony showed stats that they know were better, and MS countered with stats that showed it was better than the PS3... Now since you know so much and since we are assuming that the PS3 won't have a HDD (Since it ISN'T listed in the specs, which MUST be true) then why don't you explain the tremendous performance hit that the PS3 will take without drive caching???
Beyond that, MS has many new ways of programming that make much more efficient use of hardware (patented BTW so don't expect it to show up on PS3) so that even IF the PS3 had better hardware, the 360 wouldn't need it to produce the same results (work smarter, not harder).
As a last point... Since you went out of your way to say that nothing like the Cell has existed so we can't use modern technology to compare... Good point, but since we don't know what it can do, how do we really know that it won't be far worse than everyone expects? What data exists that allows you to state that the Cell will kick ass? None???
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