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DVD Rebuilder and CCE vs DVD Shrink
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arsenal15
Newbie
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10. July 2005 @ 22:18 |
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I was wondering if anyone had done a direct comparison between these two programs to determine what the dropoff is between DVD-RB and DVD Shrink in terms of quality. I normally do a 3-pass with DVD-RB and that takes about 6-8 hours. With DVD Shrink, it takes considerably less time, albeit with a supposed loss in quality. My question is, how much of an improvement does DVD-RB offer and is it worth the extra few hours?
I'm mostly backing up TV shows (Star Trek TNG and Firefly to be exact) and on my old TV and computer, I can't tell the difference between discs backed up using both programs. However, when I upgrade to a better set, will artifacts become noticeable?
If someone had screens of the differences in quality between the two programs, that would really help too. Thanks in advance!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. July 2005 @ 22:18
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Senior Member
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11. July 2005 @ 03:22 |
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to that question you'll probably get the following answer; "zoom on it and you will see the difference" to what you will said;"who watches movies zooming?
Nick, there is hardly any difference(none, nada)between shrink and RB. oh yes there is one, about 4.5 hours.
Nero Recode2 or Shrink using deep analysis and AEC/ fabdecrypter or anydvd running in the background/ IMGBurn to burn/main movie only mode= perfect.
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squizzle
AfterDawn Addict
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11. July 2005 @ 14:47 |
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WRONG!! It depends on the size of your TV, whether or not it's HDTV, and also how deep you look into the movie (I'm somewhat of a perfectionist so I look for flaws to try to improve upon). Try to do the Matrix or one of the Lord of the Rings movies. There's a huge difference. Oh and if you do use the quality enhancements in Shrink it gets a bit closer to the quality of CCE, and the time it takes is in the same neighborhood.
Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html
My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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Senior Member
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11. July 2005 @ 16:16 |
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RIGHT! i have a 42 inch tv and unlike you, i don't look for flaws, i just watch a movie done by whichever of the programs, nice picture quality, nice sound. if you start to look for flaws, you'll find it even going to the movies.
Nero Recode2 or Shrink using deep analysis and AEC/ fabdecrypter or anydvd running in the background/ IMGBurn to burn/main movie only mode= perfect.
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squizzle
AfterDawn Addict
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11. July 2005 @ 17:10 |
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beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone I ask says they like the CCE copy better.
Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html
My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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Senior Member
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12. July 2005 @ 02:50 |
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oh yes, you know who, those that have been told again and again that RB/cce is the best thing ever and those who watch thier entire movies zoomed.
i'm not saying that RB/cce doesn't have the best output of them all, but that is either when you ZOOM(who watch movies zooming) or when you have a very, very large TV.
Nero Recode2 or Shrink using deep analysis and AEC/ fabdecrypter or anydvd running in the background/ IMGBurn to burn/main movie only mode= perfect.
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l8nights
Suspended permanently
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12. July 2005 @ 05:52 |
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just a newb here but I thought I would just add watching an old 27-inch tv I can notice a definite crispness and sharpness to the picture (that is the true difference)oh yeah picture quality does not matter to some folks but the vast majority are out purchasing home theatre systems some costing more than my car. this is the reason why every body is going to go get the new x-box or ps3 the whole thing is about grafix you go to block buster turn over the case and look at the pictures now don't you this my friend is to see what the movie looks like. but I guess it's different strokes
peace
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2005 @ 05:54
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Senior Member
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12. July 2005 @ 07:25 |
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I've got to go with squizzle on this one. I don't use CCE/RB, though. I mostly use Recode2, and I just got Intervideo DVDCopy 3. I started out with Shrink. I have a 52 inch HDTV. I recently upgraded my DVD player from one with composite and S video to one with component outputs and progressive scan. If you look closely (no zooming!), artifacts are there in my Shrink-authored copy of Matrix Revolutions. I've yet to re-burn to see the difference using Recode2 or DVD Copy 3. Most people probably wouldn't even notice, but I do! That being said: Use the programs that give YOU satisfying results in an acceptable amount of time for YOU.
Dropbox: http://db.tt/p5P9bH1d
System 1: Core2Quad Q6600 O/Ced @ 3.15 GHz, Gigabyte GA EP35 DS4 mobo, Zalman 9700, 4GB PC6400 RAM, Sapphire Radeon 2600HD Pro, Samsung 920BW 19" Widescreen LCD, Hauppauge! PVR-350.
System 2: Core2Duo E6400 O/Ced @ 3.2 GHz, Gigabyte GA 965P S3 mobo, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, 2GB PC6400 RAM, PNY GeForce 6600, Hyundai B70A 17" LCD.This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2005 @ 07:28
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squizzle
AfterDawn Addict
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12. July 2005 @ 07:50 |
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and I can notice a quality difference on my 27" TV, so can my friends. Even people that don't know that we're watching a burn say, "Why does it look choppy like that?" with a DVD Shrink made copy.
Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html
My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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12. July 2005 @ 10:29 |
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There is no comparison, like apples and oranges. I have a 52" HDTV and noticed long ago that on some scenes DVD Shrink makes the background jittery (even set at no compression). I discovered this when I used to use shrink as a ripper (set at no compression) but now I use dvdd exclusively for ripping and all scenes are perfect. When you use the quality settings in DVD Shrink to achieve the closest possible backup comparable to DVD-RB/CCE there isn't that much difference in time between the two. DVD Shrink is a great free program for beginners but doesn't even come close to DVD-RB/CCE or even DVDCopy3 quality wise.
I don't look for imperfections either but rather watch the movie but there are obvious flaws on backups made with shrink that take away from enjoying the movie and can't be overlooked. Anybody that disagrees is just plain WRONG.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
Senior Member
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12. July 2005 @ 13:48 |
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Just burned with Recode2 and DVDCopy3. I let both programs rip with DVD43 and set the target as DVD-R rather than HD. Video quality is indiscernible between the two to me in comparison with each other (once again, no zooming). Both are great! And CCE/RB does better? Tempting...
Dropbox: http://db.tt/p5P9bH1d
System 1: Core2Quad Q6600 O/Ced @ 3.15 GHz, Gigabyte GA EP35 DS4 mobo, Zalman 9700, 4GB PC6400 RAM, Sapphire Radeon 2600HD Pro, Samsung 920BW 19" Widescreen LCD, Hauppauge! PVR-350.
System 2: Core2Duo E6400 O/Ced @ 3.2 GHz, Gigabyte GA 965P S3 mobo, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, 2GB PC6400 RAM, PNY GeForce 6600, Hyundai B70A 17" LCD.This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2005 @ 17:55
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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12. July 2005 @ 14:11 |
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DVDC3 is a close 2nd to DVD-RB/CCE and you probably won't notice much quality difference except where a lot of compression is required or as long as the quality in DVDC3 is 4 or above. DVDC3 has the best of both worlds quality and speed it just doesn't have the features to let you reauthor or edit but I use DVDRemake for that.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
Senior Member
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12. July 2005 @ 16:24 |
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Huge difference in quality between DVD R-B and Shrink. You don't have to zoom in to see it. If you're not compressing the movie much then there may not be much difference, but if you're compressing below what Shrink may call 70% then you loose a lot of quality imo. The best way to find out which is better for you is to try both of them and see for yourself. Most people who use both will tell you R-B is better but I suppose it's all up to the eye of the beholder.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. July 2005 @ 19:06 |
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You don't compare a transcoder to the quality of an encoder such as CCE. One's free and only compresses video as it is and the other's based on a slightly tamed version of a $2000 reference encoder that effectively reallocates the use of space across the entire movie.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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Calibum
Junior Member
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13. July 2005 @ 12:58 |
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Mort81, you implied that DVDShrink can actually degrade the quality of a movie even with with no compression selected. Wow! That is a major blow to my understanding of that program. Can you explain this a little more or perhaps provide some more detail?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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13. July 2005 @ 13:20 |
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Calibum
I'm curious, exactly what is your understanding of the program? DVD Shrink alters (processes) files even under no compression and it does have an effect on the resulting video. Try this! Rip a movie using DVD Decrypter and then run the ripped DVD trough DVD Shrink using no compression to another folder and then make a comparison of the files between the two folders. Look for size.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 13:21
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 13:36 |
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I don't know how or why but I know it does on some scenes. I first thought it was my media verbatum BTW, then thought it was maybe dvdremake or my encoder DVD-RB/CCE so what I did is first played the scenes where I noticed the problem from my hdd on my pc after it was encoded prior to burn. Problem was there so I knew it wasn't media. Second played problem scenes from my hdd on pc from the folder after it was edited with dvdremake. Problem was still there so I knew it wasn't DVD-RB/CCE. Next I played the problem scenes from my hdd on my pc from the original folder I made useing DVD Shrink to rip set at no compression. Problem was still there SO I knew it was either from DVD Shrink ripping the dvd or problem was on the original dvd. I played the problem scenes from the original dvd. There was NO problem on the original dvd. I ripped the original dvd with DVD Decrypter and played problem scenes from my hdd on my pc. Problem was NOT there. Ripped original dvd with DVD Shrink again set at no compression and played problem scenes from my hdd on my pc. Once again the problem WAS there.
To make a long story short the problem was due to DVD Shrink ripping engine all along and if it's there set at no compression, then it's also there when useing shrink to compress and probably even worse. Because of this I no longer use shrink period but only keep it around to refresh my memory when somebody needs help or has a problem.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
AfterDawn Addict
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13. July 2005 @ 13:45 |
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Thanks Soph,
Very nice explanation, short n sweet. Much easier and shorter than my explanation. You da man.
I quoted you from your post above in this thread. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/210174 Hope you don't mind. This guy is unconvinced that shrink set at no compression alters the files.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 14:13
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Calibum
Junior Member
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13. July 2005 @ 14:37 |
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Wow (more like crap!), true ignorance on my part. I appreciate the explanation. It's not that I am unconvinced, I believe you. DVDShrink has been used as my primary method of stripping extraz and misc stuff before running it through a true MPG2 encoder like CCE. This is done with a setting of "No Compression" which I always understood to do no harm. Were talking mucho disc usage here.
What are your suggestions for alternatives to DVDShrink in this process?
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 14:54 |
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I use dvdd to rip and DVDRemake to edit my folder prior to encoding with RB/CCE. Good as it gets other than DL media.
Don't feel alone, I also assumed DVD Shrink set at no compression wouldn't affect the quality of my backups when I was learning, but it can and does.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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13. July 2005 @ 15:01 |
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Calibum
I use DVD Shrink to get a good look at a DVD's layout, it makes a good analysis tool but that's about it. For a ripper I use DVD Decrypter with AnyDVD running in the background and I never work on the fly. If I need to get into editing, especially if I need to edit the menu then I use DVDremake. Once I'm satisfied with the content then I use DVD Rebuilder with Cinema Craft Encoder to finalize.
If you'd like to know more then go to this thread and read up a bit. Read as much as you like or you can move to the end of the thread which is more current.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/97052
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 15:03
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Calibum
Junior Member
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13. July 2005 @ 15:42 |
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Oh man, I've got this really sick feeling in my gut right now. I may not ever even notice a difference, but's it knowing that Shrink was not doing what I thought it was doing, ugh.
Thanks for the thread, I will walk through that discussion carefully. Ripping was never an issue as I always start with an ISO on the HD. Its mostly this editing problem I have now. I will also look at this DVDRemake product.
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 15:49 |
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Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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Calibum
Junior Member
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13. July 2005 @ 20:21 |
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I do have this nagging question from a long drive home from work. Why is it that the general community accepts the fact that DVDShrink works well for resizing DVD content at 99%-80% levels, but it is not acceptable for no compression edits?
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 21:16 |
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A few reasons I can think of are:
dvd shrink is free
some prefer speed over quality
most aren't as particular as me
some don't have bigscreen tvs and don't notice
most don't use a true encoder like CCE and don't know any better
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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