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Nvideas rsx pipelines vs 360 ATI pipelines 360 core vs ps3 cell
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KoOkOo67
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15. January 2006 @ 10:06 |
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Lol, a thread can stretch trough one processor
Not 3!
If Oblivion game uses 83 % of the 360 CPU, therefore it must be using 2.5 Cores. Therefore, the minimum ammout of threads being used is 2 and max 5.
And thats impossable since games wont be multy threaded in 2-5 years from now.
One thread CAN'T strech through three cores. It would be really slow if it does.
The more threads, the more space is needed.
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. January 2006 @ 10:06
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vzero
Junior Member
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15. January 2006 @ 10:40 |
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Kookoo your name defines you... I never said that it uses 83% of the cpu, I said that your assumption of dual threads is wrong. If it is using 83% then it must have at least 3 threads, which is perfectly possible with todays design, just not in any largely efficient way. Multi-threading does not require much more code, just an intelligent despatch buffer built into the engine to portion work intelligently whilst making sure it can all be done in a sequence that makes sense when it is transferred to the screen... Multithreading is hard, but by the end of 2006 most new PC games coming out will support 2 or more threads - it won't be very efficient, but it will work...
It is also worth noting that both ATi and nVidia have designed drivers that now allow jumps in performance using a dual-core because you can portion of certain work the GPU would be doing onto one of these processors. This can give upto a 20% boost because it means some raw calulations the game may tell the GPU to do can be done by the CPU, meaning the GPU can do more work on complex shading rather than say simple AI management or geometry calculations.
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KoOkOo67
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15. January 2006 @ 13:39 |
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I was using Zelda's info. He said oblivian uses 83% of the 360.
WHich ifind very wrong.
But yea i agree with you. I dont think we will see games with 6 threads till like 5-8 years. Sorry folks. lol
Games will need more space tho, in 3-4 years, think of it, how much % of the xenos GPU is being used?
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. January 2006 @ 13:41
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TruthMan
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15. January 2006 @ 13:40 |
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kookoo, that all depends on how many cores are working on the GPU, 2 should be enough to remove the bottleneck.
currently with just 1 3.2 core working, the bottneck for that card (as its very very fast) will be very large. probably only 55-60% of the cards potential power is being used.
when games have 2 threads, they should use 1 of the other cores threads, instead of the current cores other thread, that will be better and lower the bottneck (probably remove it) on the GPU, so physics handling will be far improved and no bottleneck on the card will result on a large performance boost with just 2 threads.
not bad.
anubis, there is no such thing as high definition textures.
If textures were rendered for only HD then the games for the 360 wouldnt play through a normal AV cable on a 480i (standard) TV would they.
high resolutions is all HD is, JUST high resolutions, nothing else.
there not high resolution textures, its THE higher resolution that shows those textures in better detail/quality.
you can see into those textures more, se how clear they can be.
HD just makes what you have got much clearer and better.
more detail/clearer etc.
think of it as looking out of a window, at 480i (normal AV output) the window is a bit dirty and fogged up a bit, (the things behind the window are exactly the same - ie. textures), but at 720P or higher (HD) the window is very very clean, you can see everything much better, you can see more things, and there is more detail.
there you go. good example dont u think (to all).
and about my last post, sry about it being punishingly long, lol.
but i feel that it was needed.
so overall anubis, the textures wont be super jacked up and take TONS of spaces up.
and about UT2004 (i got it 2, awsome game) , the game is so large because it's just got FKING DAM lot's of levels on it, and game modes, and characters.
the onslaught levels alone are incredibly large, (both ingame, and filesize). but its worth it for that game type. definately.
simple as..
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. January 2006 @ 13:46
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KoOkOo67
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15. January 2006 @ 13:43 |
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"Games will need more space tho, in 3-4 years, think of it, how much % of the xenos GPU is being used?"
Sorry i just edited that above, but i dont htink people would read it since u know the message hasb een posted already.
Yea so how much?
Bandwith will be sort of a problem with the ps3 & 360. Heck even the ge7800 has 10gbs+ more bandwith than both.
Games that depend on bandwith will run unfortunatly lower on the rsx and xenos. But fortunatly on the 7800, itwill have no problemo.
>_<
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TruthMan
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15. January 2006 @ 13:47 |
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i just edited the beginning of my above post with the answer (ish) to your question.
^^^ look up ^^^
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. January 2006 @ 18:37 |
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when i said hd textures i ment textures extremely detailed not whatever u were saying.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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TruthMan
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16. January 2006 @ 05:25 |
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but still it wont be drastic.
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. January 2006 @ 06:07 |
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maybe not too drastic, but nonetheless better.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
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16. January 2006 @ 11:51 |
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I'm pretty sure when geme developers use the best detailed textures the xenon has, it will need way more space. I mean 100% of GPU used. And im not onlytalking about textures.
>_<
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TruthMan
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17. January 2006 @ 05:35 |
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well the MAXIMUM capabilities of GPU's are ALWAYS used all the time, its just not all games make good use of that power.
except for when there bottlenecked aka. Xenon at the min.
when the GPU has no bottleneck ALL games will have 100% power used on it, its just some games dont make the best of it at all.
when in magasines for example, they say we used F.E.A.R to test the GPU to its max, they mean make 100% use out of every drop of power from the GPU put into the game.
its how games utilise it.
like with new driver updates, some games run faster, as the new driver coordinates with the games/operating system better to make better use of the power at hand. so you can get extra fps just by getting a new driver update.
like for Nvidia, drivers came out a while ago containing more optimisations for SLi,. making better use of it, and the power the cards are supplying.
but thats only 1 part of the whole thing, but every part counts.
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 05:40 |
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i own fear. it doesnt play on my ge-fx 5200, but if i disable sound in debug mode it runs badly.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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TruthMan
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17. January 2006 @ 07:34 |
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yea FEAR is currently the hardest game to run on the PC at the min.
COD2 and quake 4 are also 2 of the hardest to run properly on a system at the min.
but obviously a powerful one (modern) one can, not a system that was classed as powerful 1.5 or more years ago.
dam tech advances fast.
but its great how the xbox 360 easily plays COD2 and quake 4 at high FPS with max settings and high rez (High defination), at only 30% of its power. plus it has incredible potential.
build a PC that has the VERY BEST of everything, and in 3 years it will be COMPLETELY outdated, it will still work but will be seriously outdated, thats how fast tech advances.
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. January 2006 @ 07:35
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 08:54 |
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Texture quality is not going to get that much better - we already have life-like textures. What is getting better is how wire-frame models and character face mapping is improving. The normal mapping of character faces should become virtually cinematic by the end of teh generation. We wont see anything as good as that CG Sony showed for KillZone but it wont be too far off. The overall bandwidth for the PS3 is about 40GB/s and for x360 is about 280GB/s - neither will likely limit the console, though the PS3 may suffer aliasing problems...
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 09:04 |
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the ps3 antialiasing will be just fine. and 256gb/s of that 280 is the edram alone. do your research. now subtract 256 from 280 and you get 24. now compare that 24 to the little over 40 on the ps3.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 09:17 |
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Now watch that argument explode into smoke. Antialiasing takes up little RAM but requires massive bandwidth and speed. The 360 can do "free" antialiasing, in later games it will hurt the PS3 a lot...
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 09:23 |
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there is a spe dedicated to aa. the spe is clocked at 3.2ghz. it will not be a problem. the cpu is doing it, so the bandwith of the aa to the cpu is unneeded.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 09:31 |
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The spe cannot do AA, it is a mathematical impossibility that the SPE will be able to work alongside the GPU and create antialiasing - it's impossible... Bad luck - try again.
(BTW one spe is not powerful enough to do 2x aa...)
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 09:39 |
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yes the spe's can and are. have you researched the cell at all from sites that helped design it? what makes you think a lowly piece of 10mb edram can pull of aa well either? from what i saw at the stores, the 360's aa blows.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 09:41 |
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You are a moron.
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 09:46 |
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But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 09:48 |
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My sources are what I have read onboth console (high detail) my knowledge of exactly how graphics processors work, and my realisation that for the cell to do antialiasing ti would take A: serious bandwidth, B: More than 2 SPE's, 3: Some extremely clever code that worked on a software level to emulate shading technology. The cell is fast, but it isn't magic and is incredibly hard to code for - speak to soem game designers...
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 09:53 |
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Quote:
The good news: Some designers say creating games for Cell is far less complicated than writing for PlayStation 2. "Anyone who worked on the PlayStation 2 is jumping for joy," says Jeremy Gordon, chief executive of Secret Level, a gamemaker in San Francisco that is remaking a classic 1980s Sega videogame for the new Sony box.
again, provide your sources.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 10:14 |
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I cannot provide my sources because I actually know these people. That article you posted is one big marketing ploy... Sony decided against using the Cell for graphics because they found that it was just not good enough, and that a non-specialised piece of hardware like that would be impossibel to code for. When speaking to designers I have found that they say that 360 is easier to code for. Three cores are easier than one core and seven branch processors. Most say that the SPE is not very versatile, and that because all of the processing power in PS3 and Xbox 360 is in-order it really doesn't mean diddly squat - both are comparable to good Athlon 64 and Pentium 4 processors... The grapjics hardware in both consoles will process graphics and physics in soem cases. The core in cell and the three in Xbox 360 are good for AI and physics work - the SPE's are spectacularly hard to code for and are poorly supported by Sony - they can be used for physics and geometry work but they require some seriously messy code to work as they should, and the fact that they have to work in order seriously slows things down...
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. January 2006 @ 10:19 |
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i doubt your post. if it was too difficut, why would they still use it? if sony didnt support it, why would they have payed for its development and why would they include it in the ps3? that site are words from accual designers and users, not your friends or whatever who seem to know so muh about a product they have worked litle with and help in no way for the design.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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