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copyright removal
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 02:50 |
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2oldgeek
Did you use psl2 in that "Fog" rip or was the settings just very low with ignore error warnings or both?
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 03:24 |
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bro, I used nothing but the default settings in Decrypter. No Magic, No LSD.
I am not saying that the Files are different in either of the methods. What I?m saying is that the Two ways that the Windows routines HANDLE the files are different and when copying a file from a disc to the HD it works differently.
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 09:42 |
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I get tired of replying to foolishness like this, but I'll do it once again to prevent this "magic" and stream of wrong statements from going unchecked. This is a bunch of hooey. Once a file has been decrypted properly, Shrink processes the files with equal ease. As I pointed out with examples, the content is the same, just in a different packet.
Quote:
If you really think the two methods, ISO and File, are the same then try this:
Rip a protected disc in the File Mode and open it with DVDShrink in the Open File Mode. It will throw up?..
I did and guess what...
I don't know what you were doing at the time, but you were NOT paying attention. I tried it by ripping the same DVD by both methods with DVDD. I already knew what would happen, but to humor you I played by your test. I opened both folders and Shrink ran through the quick analysis and opened the files to be transcoded. It was the same for both. So get off the kick that Shrink threw up on a file and not an ISO, the content is the same. Seems you can't follow the pictures I posted for you or get your rips right all the time.
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Next, Rip the same disc in the ISO Mode and open it in DVDShrink in the File->Open Disk Image Mode. It Loves it, because the protection has been removed?
You must not know how the software works. If you successfully ripped a file then Shrink will give it a quick analysis and open. If there is a fault with the file, then it won't open. If you had it throw up a file, then you messed up with the rip. Shrink was written to handle both Files and ISO with equal ease. If you don't believe me, bounce over to the Shrink section and ask. Shrink cares little about whether it is in ISO or files (Same content).
Quote:
What I?m saying is that the Two ways that the Windows routines HANDLE the files are different...
Again you're talking about compatibility of the same content. I'd like to understand, how does Windows handle the files differently that would make a difference other than the software creating separate folders for the same files; in this case ISO and VIDEO_TS?
Quote:
... and when copying a file from a disc to the HD it works
I wasn't questioning your word on whether it worked or not, just how you say it works. Anything Shrink will do with an ISO it will do with Files, as long as you correctly decrypt the files from both. DVD Decrypter likewise, it does Files and ISO equally well, my examples showed that as well. Sounds like you haven't tried it or don't want to admit it. Anyone with half a brain can run a test using the same DVD and get the same results in both modes, whether good or bad.
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. January 2006 @ 10:18 |
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Quote:
I get tired of replying to foolishness like this, but I'll do it once again to prevent this "magic" and stream of wrong statements from going unchecked. This is a bunch of hooey. Once a file has been decrypted properly, Shrink processes the files with equal ease. As I pointed out with examples, the content is the same, just in a different packet.
For what it's worth, brobear, I can clearly understand the point that 2oldGeek is making, and it seems to me that it is you who is having trouble understanding. You rudeness to 2oldGeek isn't doing you any favours, either.
I'll try and explain what I understand by what he's saying (and several decades of programming/analysis experience tells me makes complete sense).
In one case (Files), the DVD is read as a series of files, and will have any junk that the protection racketeers put in there. Because DVD decryptor is attempting to recreate the file structure, it can be confused by protection it does not understand.
In the second case (ISO), DVDD is simply acting as a DVD player, but creating an ISO image of the data stream as it would be picked by any DVD player.
Now, we know that without the correct version, DVDD will fail to read certain disks in File mode.
We also know that the protection that can be applied to DVD's cannot be such that it will cause the DVD to fail to play in any £20 el cheapo edition DVD player from the local supermarket.
Thus, we can deduce that if LightningUK did his job properly (and he usually did), the ISO mode will produce a good file from any DVD, whereas the File mode cannot work with encryption methods that it has not been programmed to work with.
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ascii
Junior Member
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27. January 2006 @ 11:15 |
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There is something so wrong here.
Fact. If you try to decrypt one of the latest movies that has ARccOS?
on a clean system with just dvddecrypter and shrink ,never installed anydvd, dvd43 or anything else and it is using any variant of ARccOS? whereby dvddecrypter cannot generate it's own psl file.
No matter what mode you rip the dvd in (possible exception IFO mode)you would have to know which cells have the bad sectors in and deselect them manually(BLIND) so eg you try and rip in ISO mode, it will not get past the areas where the protected sectors are without it generating errors, these would show up in the log file, the ripping process will grind to a halt, by the same principle in FILE mode at exactly the same point where the ISO mode started to fail, File mode will fail also.
The fact that some are saying they have rippied as an example Stealth, then their version of Stealth only ever had the standard protection applied CSS/CPPM. This applies to all other movies that are being rippid using iso mode, but if someone is stating that they tried to rip in file mode and it failed and then they swithced to ISO mode and it sailed through, then they have a dodgy reader, a dodgy disc, no protection on it anyways. It's absolute nonsense to state that ripping is iso bypasses protection, the only protection it bypasses is the encryption and it will do this by decrypting.
Also if you manage to rip in iso mode one of the earlier ARccOS? protected movies, 1:1 copy then thats what you have with all the ARccOS? protected segments still in place, the only protection it removed would be macrovision/rce/css etc.
If i could physically send you some of the latestUK protected sony/columbia/tristar/ releases, and on a fresh install of windows and only decrypter3.5.4.0 and shrink, rip the **** out of it with your what must be enhanced version of decrypter to bypass this using ISO mode or any other mode(exc IFO)armed with the dodgy cells list maybe.
Some may be able to get their sony/c/tri to rip but thats because it does not have any protection other than normal.
The ones your ripping using iso mode we can all rip also, which is what we all were doing a long time ago before SONY DADC, and we fat32 users, used to have to rip in file mode before the latest version of shrink allowed MDS files for titles over 3.99 gig
File mode/iso mode same end result. You have to end up with AUDIO_TS VIDEO_TS our standard dvd players would not play them, except a lot of my dvd players allow unauthored mpeg to play, but most branded like sony/jvc/pioneer will not.
Advanced protection with ARccOS?
Prevention of unauthorized 1:1 copies on PC
Prevention of ripping and recompression
The only dynamic digital Copy Control available
Fully compatible with available DVD players and drives
Most effective digital copy control for DVD-Video on the market
Developed by Sony DADC, the leading provider of copy control solutions (SecuROMTM for DVD-ROM, CD-ROM and key2audioXSTM for CD-Audio)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 11:19
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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27. January 2006 @ 11:30 |
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To the best of my knowledge, Sony Corrupted movies do not work well in Shrink in an ISO rip and do not rip without errors. Macrovision is pretty similar to older ARccOS, so ISO may not have problems. Both file and ISO remove corruption and encryption. Now whether Windows fixes this or not, I do not know because I am not a programmer and I will not even comment on that.
I believe that Colw's mini-guide will work for Ripguard. I think that the .MDS contains the information for the corruption (the layer breaks and such). It is possible that opening the IS file directly will just make the curruption go to "Unreferenced materials". You can then simply turn that to a still image and you should not have problems.
I am more for using IFO mode, because that actaully does remove the corruption. All you have to do is be smart and uncheck anything that does not belong in the movie. I always rip these movie starting from the first cell of the actual movie (usually the last in chapter 1). Then you simply fix the navigation packs in IFOEdit and process the movie with FixVTS. The process adds an extra 15 minutes of time (this depends on your CPU and can be much, much faster with 3.0+ Ghz or Opteron/FX CPUs). If you want a movie only, you simply rip only the movie and then "create new IFOs" with IFOEdit. The IFOs will look clean and there will be no blank movie or cells. Since the corruption is skipped, there are no read errors and the rip is just as fast as a non-protected/corrupted DVD.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 11:53 |
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What we've been saying here is that ISO mode is decrypted in exactly the same way that file mode is. I would however be careful of the "injurious IFO smashing hammering super colliding nuclear fission vaporizing" force of the almighty DVD Decrypter.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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dr_no
Member
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27. January 2006 @ 12:00 |
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ascii,
You gave a pretty good explanation there.
But how do you explain the following. So far any Arcos movie, including the one you mentioned Madagascar, can be backed up with only Decrypter in ISO mode. I did just that, no any other anything. Oh, and plays just fine on standalone.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 12:10 |
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@Moglex, ascii, JaguarGod,
Thanks guys, now your thinking and that?s what it?s all about. If you want to solve a problem, the more heads the better.
@Moglex, you got it. Now run with it?.
Or you can just ignore anything that is out of the realm of your understanding by hollering Witchcraft! Then the problem will never get solved.
Also my daddy once told me to never corner something that is meaner than you are..
Bears are meaner and bigger LOL
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 12:11 |
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dr_no
How do you explain this, I backed up Madagascar in File mode with no problems?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. January 2006 @ 12:14 |
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Quote:
ascii,
You gave a pretty good explanation there.
But how do you explain the following. So far any Arcos movie, including the one you mentioned Madagascar, can be backed up with only Decrypter in ISO mode. I did just that, no any other anything. Oh, and plays just fine on standalone.
ascii completely ignored my point that as any old DVD player has to be able to play a DVD, no matter what protection system Sony or anyone else put on it, it therefore must be possible to retrieve all the information on the disk with no more information about encryption systems than was available when the first DVD players were produced.
I do not know if that is the technique that DVDD uses, but whether it is, or isn't, if a any BOG standard DVD player can retrieve the uncorrupted bit stream, and use it for its intended purpose, then there must be a way for any program to do the same thing.
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ascii
Junior Member
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27. January 2006 @ 12:21 |
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the error correction on a dvd player is not the same as on a computer/dvd rom, the dvdplayer can look at pgc and execute jump commands to jump over the bad nonsense sectors/data.
And madagascar can be ripped, ripguard, processing was a little bit harder though.
if you exported the PSL file from decrypter with madagascar in your rom drive you would see that decrypter generated an Internal PSL file to get past bad data, which allows ripping in either file mode or iso, however the UK release of stealth cannot be ripped in ISO mode or file mode using dvddecrypter without creating a psl2 file first
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 12:22
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. January 2006 @ 12:27 |
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Quote:
the error correction on a dvd player is not the same as on a computer/dvd rom, the dvdplayer can look at pgc and execute jump commands to jump over the bad nonsense sectors/data.
And madagascar can be ripped, ripguard, processing was a little bit harder though.
if you exported the PSL file from decrypter with madagascar in your rom drive you would see that decrypter generated an Internal PSL file to get past bad data, which allows ripping in either file mode or iso, however the UK release of stealth cannot be ripped in ISO mode or file mode using dvddecrypter without creating a psl2 file first
As I said, I do not know the specifics of DVDD or any other ripping software.
What I am concerned with is the simple logic that if any DVD player (and remember, that includes several that will run on a PC), can play a DVD, then it must be possible to retrieve the entire data stream intact on any device on which the DVD can be played.
This is obvious, otherwise the particular DVD would not play.
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dr_no
Member
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27. January 2006 @ 12:31 |
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Sophocles,
I'm not doubting you.
The argument here is that Decrypter in ISO mode, is not able to process the newer protections by itself. I'm sticking to my guns until it fails me. And no I'm not using AnyDVD and such.
ascii,
No, I did not do no PSL file exporting so can't comment there.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 12:33
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 12:33 |
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Put this on your plates and chew on it, fellow AD members.
I purchased two copies of The Fog from different locations in my city.
The first one, I could not Rip with DVDD in any mode. It would get just a little ways into it and the read rate would drop to 0 and that?s all she wrote.. I was able to copy the Movie Only using AnyDVD/Shrink/Nero.
The second disc, I was able to Rip the whole thing in ISO Mode and used Shrink to copy the Whole Movie with menus and extras..
Got any ideas?
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
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dr_no
Member
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27. January 2006 @ 12:40 |
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One more thing and I hope to be done with this.
It looks like we have a camp here saying it can be done and one stating just the opposite. So I would like to say that, yes i can be done but it might not work for everybody, for whatever reason.
I just don't feel like beating on that dead horse any longer.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 13:05 |
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@dr_no, Thanks for your comments and hope to run into you again around the forum.
Happy Burning with them DL?s
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
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ascii
Junior Member
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27. January 2006 @ 13:19 |
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Quote:
The second disc, I was able to Rip the whole thing in ISO Mode and used Shrink to copy the Whole Movie with menus and extras..
counterfeit goods on the one you could copy (maybe)
if you had all of the UK region 2 that i have bought and try to rip/backup in iso/file mode with just decrypter you would be stuffed as @16,833k* it would drop read rate down to 0.0 and fail. Luckily for me i know how to get past this with PSL2 files. I will never buy anydvd or anything else until i have no other choice.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 13:19
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 13:21 |
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2oldGeek
Quote:
got any ideas
Yes the speed of a rip can sometimes determine the outcome, especially when dealing with physical protections which are basically flaws in the pressing of a disc that will prevent a rip at full speed. I've taken disc's that would fail time and time again with others when ripping at top speed and still was able to rip it with no problems. My solution was to rip every unaffected VOB first and then rip the bad one by itself at 1X and it works.
I know that you guys believe what your saying but since the decrypting is done prior to rendering in ISO mode you're missing something somewhere because as I've stated over and over again, ISO has nothing to do with its contents anymore than a cereal box does with its contents. Perhaps we can all revisit this in a more scientific way someday but for now the debate has become tiresome when everyone is right in their own minds.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2006 @ 13:32 |
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Sophocles
Thanks for your participation here and yes it is getting a bit overworked..
I have one of the Bitch to Rip Discs in my hand now so will be trying different methods of attack on it.
If I ever come up with anything to make it any easier I?ll let everyone know..
Happy Burning, BCNU
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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27. January 2006 @ 14:04 |
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Well mogly you stuck your foot in it. If you knew anything about DVDs, you'd know that they're protected against copying, not playing. So just because a DVD plays on a player doesn't mean you can record it. So your claimed expertise does not amount to a hill of beans here. Possibly I'm being a bit brisk and you don't like my demeanor, but you're wrong and you're full of it. Learn what you're talking about before trying to enter a technical discussion.
The oldgeek found a disc that had the Sony Encryption and found it didn't work in ISO mode or File mode with DVD Decrypter alone. As I mentioned earlier, they're not paying those guys at sony to be fools and LUK wasn't clairvoyant. If anyone noticed, every time a new encryption scheme came out, there was psl2 files as a workaround till he got the updates done. No support, no updates, doesn't work on new encryption, it's that simple, but some people don't understand how the software and structure functions or don't want to.
I've got the disc here and I'm currently doing some more captures for the ISO "magic" fans here. It's as simple as this; if the disc has the new structural protection, Sony Arccos and Puppetlock, DVD Decrypter is not going to do the job. DVDD will fail equally well with both File and ISO. Good news though, Fengtao has the DVDFab Decrypter updated and it will do the job on "Fog" without any other assistance. It's just a bit longer than with AnyDVD. Here's the Info window from AnyDVD showing the encryption I was referring to. I'll give some more logs and screenshots in bit. Maybe mogly can see the pictures if he can't understand the words. oldGeek is startin to get the picture, he got a legit disk that busted DVD Decrypter. That "injurious IFO smashing hammering super colliding nuclear fission vaporizing" force of the almighty DVD Decrypter couldn't do the job. The window:
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. January 2006 @ 14:11 |
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2oldGeek
You might want to try my file mode method. Just remember which VOb or file that is causing the problem ignore it and highlight all the ones that seem to work, thus saving the bad files for last. When that's done rip the bad files at the slowest speed that your burner will allow. That should be it and might be indirectly responsible for the ISO successes if there's and adjustment to your CD Rom speeds while processing.
This is for someone who shouldn't have to doubt my word.
Now if you use DVD-RB then you know how fussy it is with faulty files.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 14:12
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dr_no
Member
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27. January 2006 @ 14:17 |
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Sophocles,
I totally agree with you on your last comment.
That is one of the reasons I still keep an older, slower burner around. Rip speed can and sometime will make a difference.
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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27. January 2006 @ 14:24 |
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Here is a partial log of a DVD Decrypter log being done on "Fog" with default settings other than 0 retries and ignore errors. The default is 20 retries on an error. I hate to think how long it might take at 20 retries per error. I cut this one short because I'd seen enough to understand the "Nuclear Hammer" Decrypter was spinning its wheels. Doesn't look anything like the log oldgeek supplied, but then that DVD for whatever reason wasn't encrypted with the newer encryption. He found one that was. I'd suspect his new log looks something like this. See mogly, it stops ISO. The disc plays, but it won't record unless the ecryption is bypassed. Hang around, if you're not too dense, you'll learn.
I 18:24:59 DVD Decrypter Version 3.5.4.0 started!
I 18:24:59 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)
I 18:24:59 Initialising SPTI...
I 18:24:59 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 18:24:59 Found 2 DVD±RWs!
W 18:25:05 Possible Structure Protection Found!
W 18:25:05 2 areas have been marked as 'suspect'.
W 18:25:05 Dummy sectors will be inserted where necessary.
W 18:25:05 Possible RCE Protection Found!
W 18:25:05 Media region code: 1
W 18:25:07 User selected Region 1 for the disc's region code.
I 18:25:21 Operation Started!
I 18:25:21 Source Device: [1:1:0] HP DVD Writer 740b DC24 (H:) (ATA)
I 18:25:21 Source Media Type: DVD-ROM
I 18:25:21 Source Media Region Code: 1
I 18:25:21 Source Media Copyright Protection System Type: CSS/CPPM
I 18:25:21 Source Media Implementation Identifier: Spruce Technologies
I 18:25:21 Destination File: D:\THE_FOG.ISO
I 18:25:21 File Splitting: Auto
I 18:25:21 Remove Structure Protection: No
I 18:25:21 Bad Sector Removal Method: Normal
I 18:25:21 Detect Mastering Errors: No
I 18:25:21 Remove Macrovision Protection: Yes
I 18:25:21 Extracting Sectors... (LBA: 0 - 4169919)
I 18:25:51 Found IFO File: VIDEO_TS.IFO - (LBA: 51015 - 51034)
I 18:25:51 Found VOB File: VIDEO_TS.VOB - (LBA: 51035 - 51091) - KEY: CB 21 C3 F4 48
I 18:25:51 Found BUP File: VIDEO_TS.BUP - (LBA: 51092 - 51111)
I 18:25:51 Found IFO File: VTS_01_0.IFO - (LBA: 51112 - 51175)
I 18:25:52 Found VOB File: VTS_01_0.VOB - (LBA: 51176 - 114746) - KEY: CB 21 C3 F4 48
I 18:26:27 Found VOB File: VTS_01_1.VOB - (LBA: 114747 - 639033) - KEY: CB 21 C3 F4 48
W 18:26:50 Failed to read Sector 123040 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:00 Failed to read Sector 123041 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:10 Failed to read Sector 123042 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:20 Failed to read Sector 123043 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:29 Failed to read Sector 123044 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:39 Failed to read Sector 123045 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:48 Failed to read Sector 123046 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:27:58 Failed to read Sector 123047 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:07 Failed to read Sector 123048 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:17 Failed to read Sector 123049 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:26 Failed to read Sector 123050 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:35 Failed to read Sector 123051 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:45 Failed to read Sector 123052 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:28:54 Failed to read Sector 123053 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:03 Failed to read Sector 123054 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:12 Failed to read Sector 123055 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:21 Failed to read Sector 123056 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:30 Failed to read Sector 123057 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:38 Failed to read Sector 123058 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:47 Failed to read Sector 123059 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:29:56 Failed to read Sector 123060 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:04 Failed to read Sector 123061 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:12 Failed to read Sector 123062 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:21 Failed to read Sector 123063 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:30 Failed to read Sector 123064 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:38 Failed to read Sector 123065 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:47 Failed to read Sector 123066 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:30:55 Failed to read Sector 123067 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:04 Failed to read Sector 123068 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:13 Failed to read Sector 123069 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:21 Failed to read Sector 123070 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:30 Failed to read Sector 123071 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:39 Failed to read Sector 123072 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:47 Failed to read Sector 123073 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:31:56 Failed to read Sector 123074 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:32:04 Failed to read Sector 123075 - ID CRC or ECC Error
W 18:32:13 Failed to read Sector 123076 - ID CRC or ECC Error
I 18:32:19 Abort Request Acknowledged
W 18:32:21 Failed to read Sector 123077 - ID CRC or ECC Error
E 18:32:21 Failed to Extract Sectors!
E 18:32:21 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 00:07:00
E 18:32:21 Average Read Rate: 586 KB/s (0.4x) - Maximum Read Rate: 5,207 KB/s (3.8x)
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. January 2006 @ 14:25 |
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dr_no
You don't need a slower older burner around, in fact that would be a waste of time. One can adjust their burner's speed inside of DVD Decrypter under Tools/Settings/Device.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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