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copyright removal
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 14:30 |
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VTS_01_1.VOB is where the problem is located. Now oldgeek is being the proponent of "His" file method. What happened to the magic ISO? Guess those "Files" are handy for editing after all. By the way, I've used RB/CCE over a long period of time. As long as the decryption is done properly, I've never run into a problem. In fact on a couple of occasions it was so forgiving, Nero questioned the structure for the burn. I opted to burn and the RB output played perfect. I believe Sophocles can verify that, he's been involved with the beta testing of RB for some time.
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 14:43 |
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Hey mogly
Here's why we can watch movies on the players and also why we can record them. Though without DeCSS and other decryption, it can't be done. That's those decryption software tools everyone is using. CSS is in the machine and DeCSS is what we use to bypass it. Starting to get the picture. I may be blunt, but I don't claim personal expertise to support my point. Here's a link to the site for the DVD Copy Control Association. It's a good read if you don't understand how things work. You should read and pay attention closely. The info below is found on the site. http://www.dvdcca.org/faq.html
What is CSS?
The Content Scramble System (CSS) is the protection system that has enabled the owners of movie content to provide consumers access to high quality DVD movies for home viewing on their video systems and computers. CSS prevents movies from being illegally duplicated, protecting the intellectual property of the manufacturers, producers and writers from theft. CSS is a two-part system for which manufacturers of both the movie content (discs) and hardware or software (players) purchase licenses. The information on DVD discs is encrypted. The DVD players - either a computer drive or a home video player - have technology to 'decrypt' the information so it can be viewed. CSS is critical to DVD.
What is DeCSS?
Despite legal 'trade secret' protection for CSS, the code for its algorithms and master keys - the main elements of its security - were stolen and posted on the Internet. A utility called 'DeCSS' was also posted. Using the stolen elements, it allows the illegal 'decryption' of CSS movies and copying to a computer disc drive. From there, perfect digital copies can be made.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 14:45
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dr_no
Member
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27. January 2006 @ 15:01 |
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Sophocles,
I know that, I just didn't express myself the right way, sorry for that. What I meant is that sometime another burner is good to have, some read better some not.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. January 2006 @ 15:04 |
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dr_no
True, some burners do read better than others and that could be making some of the differences that have been discussed here. I have Plextors 712 and 716 and they are not only good readers but are also quick to respond to speed shifts.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 15:34 |
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By now it should be obvious, there is no "magic" ISO fix. Now Mogly knows why players play and why recorders won't record without the right software. At least he does if he read the article. To further prove that the "nuclear fission, atom and VOB busting" DVD Decrypter doesn't perform magic, 2oldgeek found an encrypted copy of "Fog" that the "nuclear fission, atom and VOB busting" DVD Decrypter can't do in ISO, at least not unassisted. That blew the "magic" ISO theory out the window. I'd say if the same DVDs that worked unassisted with DVDD in ISO were done in file mode they would have worked successfully as well. DVD Decrypter is a good program and I use it often, but it isn't magic. I've used it enough to know what it can and can't do. I've used ISO and File formats for a long time as well. ISO is compatible mostly as a burning format. As far as the file content in the ISO folder, that is the same if anyone paid attention to previous screenshots supplied of ISO and VIDEO_TS folders. I won't bore you with the screen captures of the failed DVD Decrypter attempts. (Unless someone just has to see them,) As I showed with the logs, ISO and File mode failed equally well or succeeded as well depending on the software and how well it worked. I have the successful Decrypter logs for the AnyDVD-Decrypter rips in both ISO and File Mode if anyone wants to see those. I'd like to see the capture of the AnyDVD info window on the DVD of Fog that worked so easy for 2oldgeek.
One nice thing that we can say is that DVDFab Decrypter is working well enough to do the job and it's free. So there is still freeware for the freebie fans. There's editing and other software that can be used. There's no one way that the job has to be done. However, a person shouldn't get the idea a particular method is magic just because it worked on one job and not checking to see if the other methods worked equally as well.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 15:50
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L8ter
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27. January 2006 @ 15:52 |
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For what it's worth, brobear, I can clearly understand the point that 2oldGeek is making, and it seems to me that it is you who is having trouble understanding. You rudeness to 2oldGeek isn't doing you any favours,either
first of all if you spent the time here that brobear does helping others to sort things out and solve prob's then you would know it is doing just that himself and everybody else that devotes some time to helping on this forum a favour by trying to stem the tide of newb's that will have problem's trying these method's! as far as rude that must be one of those in the eye of the beholder things because I missed it!
seond if you can see his point of view then you are the only one, including himself! I see yours though! vaguely resembles the truth!
I was actually waiting for him to make up his mind to reply but I don't think this will happen seems he likes messing w/ all the diiferent setting's w/in dvdd (including ignore read errors big nono) then it seems he preffers to use the defaut's and that is all he will ever have to use as it will get him past any protections then he preffers each mode in each method??? I think he just wan't someone to give him a guide!( 2old to search?)
2old geek there is a ifo mode tell me your prefferences on that at least then you would be closer! ;)
you will indeed be able to read write iso to dl (presently) as it just captures an image and writes it the copy will still have the same protection as the first disk included your copy of fog is this iso processed w/ shrink no other apps background, free, or not-so?
I will however be trying the fog and give you the results as I'm in region1 also but you missed one very important part of my request what zone & language because those clever ppl @ sony or macrovision have been known to apply different protections even in the same region!
maybe you are just trying to confuse those in power @ macrovision as you have yourself!
to tell you the truth I'm surprised I took the time to write this but as most that are in a position to know have tried to tell you already!
it's true that anydvd is not necessary and not free but there are plenty of apps that will get you to where you want to go the psl2 file creator now has a wizard to walk you through it and an installer that makes sure you have everything you need set-up correctly! so it's installs it self and then walks w/ you the whole way through telling you what it is doing!
take some time to program your own ripper! then tell us how it works!
@ bro bear a little time on his hands?? lol
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 17:22
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brobear
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27. January 2006 @ 16:38 |
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Quote:
I'll try and explain what I understand by what he's saying (and several decades of programming/analysis experience tells me makes complete sense).
Now 2oldgeek won't even agree with him. Programming/analysis and no understanding of CSS on the living room player and in the PC drives. So much for noobs jumping on the bandwagon.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. January 2006 @ 16:41
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. January 2006 @ 03:48 |
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Well mogly you stuck your foot in it. If you knew anything about DVDs, you'd know that they're protected against copying, not playing. So just because a DVD plays on a player doesn't mean you can record it. So your claimed expertise does not amount to a hill of beans here. Possibly I'm being a bit brisk and you don't like my demeanor, but you're wrong and you're full of it. Learn what you're talking about before trying to enter a technical discussion.
You may consider your oafish rudeness 'brisk', it's not clear how many would agree with you.
What is clear is that you have little understanding of how computers (including DVD players) work at a basic level, and that you are quite happy to take the DVD CCA FAQ at face value when it contains quite a lot that is misleading - hardly surprising considering its obviously partisan nature. Of course, this does not mean that you do not know a great deal about how DVD's work at the user level, or what tools work best to access them.
To take the most obvious DVD CCA lie: "CSS prevents movies from being illegally duplicated, protecting the intellectual property of the manufacturers, producers and writers from theft."
This is plain garbage. The big DVD pirates can do a bit by bit copy and produce "bit perfect" copies, including PUF's and protection.
I note that you do not even attempt to address the points I made, instead making repeated posts displaying your pompous bullying technique for dealing with those who have the temerity to disagree with you.
As I've already said, I do not know about the particular details of DVDD, but simple logic dictates that since three year old versions of Windows DVD players running on unpatched NT4 systems can play all the latest DVD's without modification, then it is possible for a Windows machine which has no cognisance of any encryption system produced during the last three years to play any DVD.
Perhaps, if you wish to reply to this, you would point to a flaw in the logic, rather than being rude and offensive and pointing at partisan external sites that you obviously have not the knowledge to understand sufficiently to see the flaws and lies in their propaganda.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. January 2006 @ 05:12 |
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Moglex
DVD's are protected against copying and not playing. The fact that 3 old NT system play them only proves that they play them and nothing more. I've had a DVD Player in my system since the 1990's and Windows 98 played them just fine to. DVDROMS preceded DVDR/RW by quite a few years. I'm guessing around 1997 for players. When Win2k came out we converted them to SVCD/VCD if we desired to play them in our standalone and MPEG4 (mostly DivX since XviD was still a work in progress) if we stored them on hard disks and then played them back through our TV on a homemade PC DVD player.
The original debate here began when someone stated that AnyDVD was unnecessary because if one ripped in ISO mode the need was illuminated. The claims is that an ISO file is one large continuous stream. Both claims are untrue. ISO and File Mode are decrytped in exactly the same way and the Decryption process is completed before the file is converted to ISO or it is ripped to your hard disk in file mode. Load a DVD and before you even hit the Decrypt button to rip it you will see that the copy protections have already been removed.
To address the claim that ISO mode is one continuous file is also false the files inside the ISO wrapper are identical to those in file mode. ISO has only one purpose and that is to facilitate burning not ripping. ISO is just an internationally recognized standard for burning. It has no effect on decryption or on the outcome of a rip whatsoever. Linux free downloads are usually packaged in an ISO file so that people can mount them and burn them to a bootable disc. Any movie that one can rip in ISO mode one can rip in file mode.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. January 2006 @ 05:49 |
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Sophocles,
The point I am trying to make here, and failing, because it seems that people just don't understand what happens in a computer at bit level, is that you can't make a disk that is protected against copying and not playing. It simply makes no sense.
When you play a disk, the first thing that happens to the data is that it is read off the disk one bit at a time. That bit encompasses one single piece of data. It could be part of a menu, part of the protection system, part of the sound, or part of the picture.
It cannot have attached to it any further information such as a "don't copy me" flag. If it can be read, it can be copied. Full stop.
I have stated several times that I don't know the details of DVDD. I joined the 'debate' purely because I objected to the thuggish way brobear was trying to deal with a poster whose views he objected to.
It may be that 2oldGeek was incorrect, but that is no excuse for the puerile outburst (e.g. tired of replying to this foolishness) from brobear.
If you habitually find that you can rip DVD's using ISO mode that you can't rip using File mode, then it is a reasonable assumption that there is something fundamentally different about the ripping methods employed. It may not be correct, but it is reasonable.
DVD ripping and burning is not a straightforward process in the way that, for example, writing a letter in a word processor is. The technology is fundamentally unreliable, and on top of that there are a bunch of people who are being paid a lot of money to try and make sure that in certain cases it does not work at all.
As such, it would be better if people such as brobear could manage to be polite to posters who may make erroneous assumptions. It is clear that his own knowledge of the fundamentals of computer operation is not great, and he tries to get over this limitation by bombastic belligerence, rather than patient debate. Which is sad.
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ascii
Junior Member
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28. January 2006 @ 06:21 |
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Moglex if the point you are trying to make is that no matter what protection is in place on something like say a dvd cd, there will always be a way round it, then there is a very high percentage that that statement is true.
ok play copy etc.
Ok use explorer to copy the files from a movie dvd that uses css is encrypted to your pc hard drive. no dvddecrypter etc, just explorer, it will fail. yet it will easily play if you have the correct components installed/ codec etc.
reading a disc that has protection on it using decrypter will bypass the encrypted part by supplying keys so it can read. Where explorer failed was it's inability to supply the unlock keys to decrypt.
IF all that was on a dvd was the css, macro flag/ region coding, then dvddecrypter or even smartripper would easily rip this in either ISO read mode or file mode / we had it good, nothing could stop us, apart from there were no blank dvds or dvd writers, so we created vcd,s svcd,s.
Then we got blanks /dvd writers and all was still very easy, as most films were on dvd-5 single layer.
When they started to use dual layer discs, we could not fit 7.9 gig onto 4.3 gig blanks, dvdone2one / dvd shrink helped us by allowing us to transcode /dump elements from the dual layer discs that we did not want, all was well and nothing stopped us again.
Then sony dadc developed (arcoss) possibly with macrovision (ripguard) methods to scupper dvddecrypter, it worked it stopped us / dvddecrypter was then updated to combat this within a few hours of sonys copy protection being found on a dvd.
This then became a fight between a rat and a hedgeghog, the hedgehog was winning on points, when another rat stepped in and shutdown my favourite program of all time.
At this stage a lot of movies were released from sony/columbia/tristar/ that dvddecrypter just sailed straight thru/ over time though sony started to release varaints on their copy protection that dvddecrypter could not quite understand, luckily for us / me, the author of dvddecrypter had in place something that could still be manipulated after decrypter was shutdown. Ie you can tell dvddecrypter to utilise a set of instructions PSL protected sectors list, which tells decrypter to ignore certain bits of the dvd when ripping , rather fill them with data that can easily be ignored.
We win for the time being everything is ok again, bit more hard work and some other peoples hard work to create a means of creating your own psl2 file to import into dvddecrypter.
So when all dvds have this protection, dvddecypters Standard read iso mode is stopped and so is the file mode. until you import the psl2 file that is.
Yeah there are other programs that are updated to get round this protection, if you want to use them then thats ok, i do not want to use them, i like dvddecrypter too much to stop using it, and i like messsing on, i do not like point and click, i like complete control, that is me though, many other circumstances yes i could like point and click, like auto-pilot on landing a 747 when the captain is dead.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 06:39
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. January 2006 @ 06:51 |
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Moglex
I didn't say CSS code couldn't be overcome and be ripped I'm just telling you what the intent of CSS is and that's to prevent copying. You're failing to make your point because you're not adding anything to the discussion with it we all know that. You might also want to stop trying to be condescending over others unless you are certain that you in fact know more than they do. Anytime that you want to test your knowledge against mine I'm ready but let's do it in chatroom with a timed limit to insure we aren't getting our answers off the intent.
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If you habitually find that you can rip DVD's using ISO mode that you can't rip using File mode, then it is a reasonable assumption that there is something fundamentally different about the ripping methods employed. It may not be correct, but it is reasonable.
You're right it's not correct. How many of those same DVD's have you actually tested in file mode? If you're ripping bad sectors or files to your hard disk and then burning them then you're introducing errors into your disc. Some might play but I also guarantee that some won't. File mode actually allows you to isolate the offending file for editing, slow copying, or plain removal. In other words in file mode you can actually fix the problem.
What you and your cronies have missed in this debate is that many of the errors that you're experiencing are introduced physical protections. Sometimes they're no more than a single VOB that won't read at the same speed as the rest and when you're ripping at 12 to 13 times and then it all of sudden drops to less than 1X, many players will get stopped in their tracks because most burners can't read below 2 times.
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DVD ripping and burning is not a straightforward process in the way that, for example, writing a letter in a word processor is. The technology is fundamentally unreliable, and on top of that there are a bunch of people who are being paid a lot of money to try and make sure that in certain cases it does not work at all.
You've got to be kidding with the word processing analogy that's just plain silly. If you're going to be condescending at least make a feeble attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about. Ripping is not fundamentally unreliable, it is quite the opposite, incredibly reliable. I've ripped over 800 movies without a single failed attempt. But lets say I had 8 failures (which I haven't)then that would still make ripping 99% reliable, but with a little knowledge and understanding of a DVD's structure one can insure 100% success or at least until a new form of encryption comes along.
The reason that we're able to rip and burn on a computer is that everything is encoded/decoded through software which is where the fundamental flaw in encryption lies. If they were hardware based we would all be screwed because it's a lot harder to emulate hardware than it is to skip around software. Three years from now everything is going to be hardware based even on computers and it will all be supported by Windows Vista. This wouldn't be scary if it weren't for the sheer numbers of those who've subscribed to this. Also the new copy protections are going to change every 6k or so throughout the DVD. It might be a while before someone comes along and learns how to defeat it. Follow the link and read.
http://www.dvdhounds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2037&postcount=1
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. January 2006 @ 07:20 |
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Moglex
LOL And what do you call your little diatribe? Your argument lends itself to the same behavior you accuse me of. As they say, that's like the pot calling the kettle black. The polished language makes it no less offensive or "puerile". LOL You admit you don't understand how DVDs play and record at the basic level, yet you persist in arguing, because you don't like the way I approached the discussion. Sophocles is an educator with a good educational background and knows the internal aspects of PCs as well as the theory. My qualifications aren't as complete, but I've put in my time on computer theory and electronics. So, I'm sorry to disillusion you, but there are those here who understand PCs at the bit level.
I pointed you to a simplistic site that noted the basic concept of copyright protection in the entertainment industry as it concerns equipment manufacture. I have no doubt the master pirates are able to copy DVDs at a bit to bit level. However, that does not address the equipment we have in our living rooms. Equipment manufacturers subscribe to rules in making their equipment that cover CSS protection. As I pointed out, though angering you in the process (intentionally may I add, I don't like being attacked either), you do need to research the matter before saying I'm wrong. Though you're proud of your educational background and professional expertise you claim, it does you no good when you're out of your environment. Without the advanced technology used by the high tech pirates, we private citizens wanting to back up our DVDs must resort to decrypting the DVDs so the hardware reads it as unencrypted. If you doubt what I'm saying, just put a factory DVD in a PC and try to copy it. Not play it, but copy it. You will see that the system is "hardwired" not to copy protected discs.
As a programmer, I'm surprised you don't understand the structure of the File and ISO used in recording these DVDs. Get over the ego trip and anger and go back and review the structure and content of the material I presented. ISO contains the VIDEO_TS folder that contains the VOB, BUP and IFO files that comprise a DVD. I intentionally pushed your button due to your entering into an argument you were not technically prepared for. You keep noting your ignorance on the topic. You try to use basic program logic, but there is firmware programming being used to intervene. That's similar to the BIOS of the PC system. As a PC has to work within programmed parameters, so the function of standalone players and PC drives are controled by the PROMs built into them. A simple test is the one I presented, insert a factory protected DVD movie into a PC drive and try to copy it without decryption software.
The problem with your logic is that you say the CSS protections are a hoax. You don't seem to understand that the newer encryptions have nothing to do with the playability of the disc. Those new encryption strategies are directed at the current software in use for decrypting the DVD files. The encryption is there whether in the ISO or File mode. As pointed out, those with the successes with ISO, should have tested the File mode as well. So, there is the firmware protection mentioned, CSS, and the newer structural encryption directed at the software being used. That's what people mean when they say structural protection and what they're seeing in the logs.
Once you take the time to research the technology involved, and the programming utilized, you'll notice the truth in what I presented. Your petulant outburst comes from your primal instincts and distaste for having your ignorance pointed out. However, you pointed it out yourself. Quote:
As I've already said, I do not know about the particular details of DVDD, but simple logic dictates that since three year old versions of Windows DVD players running on unpatched NT4 systems can play all the latest DVD's without modification, then it is possible for a Windows machine which has no cognisance of any encryption system produced during the last three years to play any DVD.
The discussion is on recording copyright protected DVDs, not playing them. As I said, try recording one yourself without decryption software.
I'll give you a quick run through so you have some understanding of the process while doing your research. First of all, simple logic dictates there is some type protection that keeps us from recording factory DVDs. We play them on standalone players and on our PCs. No secret to that. Try to record one without decryption and you see that it doesn't work. The decryption software uses the player technology against itself. As the player plays, the decryption software removes or "unlocks" the unwanted protection. If you don't believe that is what's happening, check with professionals in the field. I'm sure you don't want to believe me. Without the protection, the recording process is simple, just size to the target media and record.
Though something may be presented to you in a simple manner doesn't mean it's rubbish. That attitude is as puerile as you claimed my actions to be. Not using your logic, but giving us the technical aspects of the procedure, explain the recording of protected DVDs. I'm not talking about high tech pirates, I'm inquiring about the methods and equipment used by the general public. If you say I'm wrong in my understanding of the topic, will you enlighten me and the other members of the forum. From one oaf to another, why don't you let me in on the real story? ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 07:50
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. January 2006 @ 07:42 |
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Sophocles
I have learned a lot from this debate from both camps. As I said, I had to purchase several copies of The Fog in order to get one that had the Newest Protections.
I did get one and it has just about broken me..
Can?t Rip with DVDDecrypter in eather ISO or File Mode..
Ripped it with DVDFab but the end result is not good. After Fab and even after VobBlanker, Shrink dosen?t want to work on it.
Quote:
What you and your cronies have missed in this debate is that many of the errors that you're experiencing are introduced physical protections. Sometimes they're no more than a single VOB that won't read at the same speed as the rest and when you're ripping at 12 to 13 times and then it all of sudden drops to less than 1X, many players will get stopped in their tracks because most burners can't read below 2 times.
What you said here Sophocles, I believe to be true. That it has physical protection that Decrypter just can?t handle no matter what I tried with it.
The read rate drops to 0x on VTS 01 1 and that is the end of that rip..
The only way I could Rip this one was with AnyDVD+Decrypter or AnyDVD+Shrink. The common denominator being AnyDVD..
LUK is not yet dead, but he?s real sick?
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. January 2006 @ 07:49 |
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2oldGeek
Rip the entire DVD except for the offending file and then rip it by itself at 1X. Some burners won't read below 2X but that also works quite often. You can also download the latest PSL2 files and try those too. AnyDVD however does make it easy because it takes over where LUK left off and in fact was usually ahead of LUK. If Macrovision gets their hands on AnyDVD and the encryptions get to complicated to make PSL2 files, then we may see the end of an era.
Follow this link and you will see what I'm talking about.
http://www.dvdhounds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2037&postcount=1
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 07:50
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Senior Member
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28. January 2006 @ 08:09 |
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ClipsKid
Look what you started.... Shame on you! Don`t you dare ever ask another question ;]
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brobear
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28. January 2006 @ 08:19 |
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Strange happenings I must say with "The Fog". Feathers may have gotten ruffled, but we've gained insight into what's going on an what isn't.
I have "The Fog" in the can using 2 differnt strategies. I ripped the movie in both File and ISO using AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter paired. (I didn't use both formats at first, but then I went back and redid it for comparison sake.) I try not to say things don't work without trying it myself. Back to the info. These rips gave a file count error in the Rebuild segment of RB and wouldn't finish (Rebuild didn't match Prepare). So for RB some editing would be best before processing. However, without editing, DVD Shrink transcoded the movie.
I ripped with DVDFAB Decrypter. I made sure I had the latest version. Both RB and Shrink processed the files without a hiccup. I don't know why I was able to pull this off without editing and others haven't, but it worked and this copy had the Arccoss and Puppetlock structural protection.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 08:26
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Moglex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. January 2006 @ 09:03 |
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ascii
Quote:
Moglex if the point you are trying to make is that no matter what protection is in place on something like say a dvd cd, there will always be a way round it, then there is a very high percentage that that statement is true.
Yes, that is exactly the point. Given that that is the case there is no need whatsoever to be rude to someone who simply misinterprets what he or she has seen.
Sophocles
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I didn't say CSS code couldn't be overcome and be ripped I'm just telling you what the intent of CSS is and that's to prevent copying.
Really? Well, whoda thunkit?
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You're failing to make your point because you're not adding anything to the discussion with it we all know that.
Unlike your mentioning that CSS is designed to stop copying? ROFLMAO.
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You might also want to stop trying to be condescending over others unless you are certain that you in fact know more than they do.
An you and your cronies might want to stop being condescending, full stop.
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Anytime that you want to test your knowledge against mine I'm ready but let's do it in chatroom with a timed limit to insure we aren't getting our answers off the intent.
If you want to get into a pissing contest you'll need to find someone else :)
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How many of those same DVD's have you actually tested in file mode?
None. I have said that I'm not entering into the debate about DVDD modes. Just what may or may not be possible in general and brobear's ignorant (in the sense of rude) response.
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What you and your cronies have missed in this debate
I haven't missed anything, and I have no cronies here. You don't even seem to understand what I'm arguing about (despite the fact I've said several times I'm not arguing about DVDD {which, BTW, I always use in File mode}).
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You've got to be kidding with the word processing analogy that's just plain silly.
Only to someone with a very flawed understanding of the concept of reliability (or, maybe a corrupted wordprocessor :)).
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If you're going to be condescending at least make a feeble attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about.
For someone who witters on about other people being condescending, you certainly do a fair job yourself. Some would call that hypocrisy.
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Ripping is not fundamentally unreliable, it is quite the opposite, incredibly reliable.
Bit of a straw man argument here. Nice try, but no cigar. I actually said "ripping and burning". I have ripped around 1000 DVD's without a single failure in the ripping process. But you and I are not the entire population, and ripping is only one half of "ripping and burning".
brobear
My man. Well, I certainly got you going, didn't I :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 09:05
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L8ter
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28. January 2006 @ 09:11 |
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*edited this has gone on for to long*
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 09:35
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brobear
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28. January 2006 @ 09:41 |
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moglex
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brobear
My man. Well, I certainly got you going, didn't I :)
Not really, I was just clarifying the situation behind an ignorant smartass. I hate to see the novices lead astray by fools such as you. We run into them all the time around here. You tried to come off as wiser and smarter, and it backfired. Your last lengthy post proved what I'm saying. There's no need to answer the specifics, as Sophocles pointed out, you've added nothing and all you've done is try to argue and be condescending.
The discussion was about encryption and decryption and all you can think is that old players play. Then I mention CSS protection and you say it's foolish. Well, the situation is that you're the fool for acting the way you have and not paying attention to the content of the discussion. CSS is the firmware encryption and the newer structural encryption addresses the software and recording methods we use in trying to decrypt the files. The players could care less about the new encryption, but it's giving the decryption utilities a hard way to go. There was the erroneous belief that a particular format could help circumvent the encryption. That's been laid to rest as well. At least when I join a discussion I have some knowledge of the subject instead of using some half-baked personal concepts. So, your understanding was way off and your demeanor has been worse than any other here. Your last sophomoric attempt at condescension actually showed how juvenile you are.
Have a nice day. ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 09:59
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Moglex
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28. January 2006 @ 10:10 |
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Not really, I was just clarifying the situation behind an ignorant smartass.
Your love of the ad-hominen tells a great deal about both your debating skill and your intellectual capacity.
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I hate to see the novices lead astray
Then, perhaps a little calm logic would suit your purpose better than all you pompous bombast.
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by fools such as you.
Ooops, there we go with the ad-hominems again.
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You tried to come off as wiser and smarter, and it backfired.
Only to the extent that neither you nor Sophocles actually managed to understand what I was saying, but instead continued to witter on repeating yourselves over and over again about something quite different.
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Your last lengthy post proved what I'm saying. There's no need to answer the specifics, as Sophocles pointed out, you've added nothing
A typical get out from someone who cannot continue to argure a point. Sad really, but not, I fear, unexpected. After all, all a bullies are cowards.
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all you've done is try to argue and be condescending.
Well, here I must admit that I could take lessons from the masters, i.e. yourself and your acolyte, Sophocles.
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The discussion was about encryption and decryption and all you can think is that old players play.
And that went right over your head, didn't it. I fear you still do not understand the significance of that.
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Then I mention CSS protection and you say it's foolish.
Your wittering on stating the blindingly obvious was what was foolish, and still is.
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Well, the situation is that you're the fool for acting the way you have
If it makes you feel better to believe that, you go right ahead :)
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... and the newer structural encryption addresses the software and recording methods we use in trying to decrypt the files.
"recording methods we use in trying to decrypt the files"?
You really haven't got a clue, have you?
What on earth have the recording methods we use got to do with trying to decrypt a file. Do try and make at least a little bit of sense.
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There was the erroneous belief that a particular format could help circumvent the encryption. That's been laid to rest as well.
Indeed, and I merely indicated how one could (erroneously as it turns out) deduce a certain situation from the information given.
Were you and your fellow forum tyrants not so keen on point scoring and dick swinging, you could have ended that particular tangential diversion quickly and politely. Instead you started ranting like good 'uns and off we went on a roller-coaster of irrelevance. Well done old chap.
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So, your understanding was way off and your demeanor has been worse than mine.
If you understood as much as you evidently think you understand, you would have been able to stop the misunderstandings you see dead in their tracks with simple, clear, logic.
The fact that you need to rant and be obnoxious at every turn merely shows you are trying to punch way above your weight.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 10:12
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. January 2006 @ 10:14 |
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Moglex
I've been civil to you thus far but you're by far the rudest person posting on this thread. The truth is you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about and we all know it. So far all you've offered is a foray into semantics without miking sense of a single discipline of technology.
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I haven't missed anything, and I have no cronies here. You don't even seem to understand what I'm arguing about (despite the fact I've said several times I'm not arguing about DVDD {which, BTW, I always use in File mode}
I understand the basis of your very simplistic argument. If it can be played then it's not copy protection. My point was that even if it can be played it is copy protection however ineffective. If you're not involved in the debate about DVD Decyrpter then what the hell are you doing here besides flaming the thread?
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Only to someone with a very flawed understanding of the concept of reliability (or, maybe a corrupted word processor :))
There you go again with juvenile attempts to condescend. The only flawed understanding here has been demonstrated by you. You don't know a damned thing about what you are arguing about and you were wise to back out of a chartroom debate with me. Now the gloves are off. I eat pathetic no-nothing Pea-brained morons like you for breakfast all the time, however you don't know enough to make a real debate possible. So why don't you just mosey on to the newbie threads and leave the real discussions of technology to those of us who actually understand them.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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28. January 2006 @ 10:16 |
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72morgan
The only answer to a question I?ll ever give from now on is:
Use Verbatim and Buy AnyDVD..
As my old Daddy always said, Never miss a good chance to shut up.
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves...This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2006 @ 10:17
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brobear
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28. January 2006 @ 10:20 |
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Moglex
See what I mean? LOL Another juvenile outburst. Ad-hominems? Not likely, just drawing attention to the antics of a pompous egotist.
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brobear
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28. January 2006 @ 10:24 |
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2oldGeek
I may follow suit. LOL My good old Daddy told me not to argue with fools, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. I'm afraid that's what I've allowed moglex to do. ;)
You all have a good evening.
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