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Tips for Best Quality DVD Backup with Shrink ???
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smokarz
Newbie
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28. December 2006 @ 05:35 |
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hi all, i am new here and just downloaded DVD Shrink and on my way to backing up some of my old dvds.
i would appreciate any tips that you can provide to maximize quality on my back ups.
i am only concern with keeping the movie, 5.1 surround, and english sub. everything else i can discard. thanks much!
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Moderator
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28. December 2006 @ 11:02 |
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Hi smokarz
Welcome to aD
You can use reauthor mode in Shrink to do movie only and then just pick the audio & sub's you want - unchecking the ones you don't want.
This will keep the compression down - I try I keep mine around 70-75% or higher (meaning 30% or less compression).
If the disc needs alot of compression you can check 'deep analysis' under the quality setting tab when you click backup in Shrink.
Will do the encoding in 2 passes to improve the quality - will take a bit longer.
Since Shrink is no longer updated to handle the newer copy protections add RipIt4Meto your arsenal. Gives Shrink the help it needs - all programs used are free. You can also do movie only.
Use quality media too like Verbatim or made in Japan Sony, Fuji or Maxell.
Burn at 1/2 the rated speed of the media.
And lastly (I think :)) keep the burner's firmware up to date.
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smokarz
Newbie
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28. December 2006 @ 11:29 |
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thanks binkie7
i've read some posts in regard to max smoothness/max sharpness, should i be utilizing these features (or any other features) in DVD Shrink to improve quality? thanks
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Moderator
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28. December 2006 @ 12:39 |
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Sure - try them out and see what kind of difference it makes when you play them back.
I'm usually able to keep compression 25% or less so for what I play them on I don't use any quality enhancements.
If it's over 30% compression then I'll sometimes use the deep analysis.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. December 2006 @ 13:58 |
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Well for another point of view, always use deep analysis and the AEC enhancements. Before AEC DVDShrink's quality was beat by almost every copy program out there. Nero Recode has it on by default (set to Sharp). In the early days InstantCopy had some of the best vid quality out there, unfortunately the program was glitchy and frequently had problems with WS sources (undersizing). InstantCopy used AEC in it's transcoder.
When Mr. Shrink was beta testing ways to improve Shrink and it's AEC implimentaion (for inclusion into Recode I assume) he would post clips and have folks guess which encoder was used. Most times folks would pick their favorite clip and proclaim that CCE was used, they where very often wrong, they had picked the Shrink clip.
A little backround here.
http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44861
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. December 2006 @ 21:54 |
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@smokarz
If you're the few that owned any 50" or higher HDTV, then it's wise to use "DA + AEC + Max Smooth/Sharp" when there's a lot compressions needed.
For me, all I care for are the quality and longevity. With that in mind, if the "Quality Ratio" is roughly 70% or lower (meaning there are 30% or more that needs to be transcoded), then I'll fire up "DA + AEC + Max Smooth." I know a lot of members don't like to use "Max Smooth/Sharp" unless its Quality Ratio is 60% or lower, but that's just me. Sad but true Mr. Shrink has left and now worked for Ahead (Nero), therefore, he has brought us the new DVD Shrink aka Nero Recode.
However, since I owned DVD-RB Pro with CCE SP, I'll simply load them up and encode using 3 PASSES VBR for any 3HRS movie. And YES... I can honestly say that; "you'll be blown away with the quality in result."
Best of luck!!
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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28. December 2006 @ 22:03 |
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Just a 4th opinion and I agree with both binkie7,MystticE, and alkohol on a lot of what they said.
Do a truly large movie like "Lord of the Rings: ROTK" with both Shrink and CCE and I think I might be able to pick out which is which. I don't think I could do it from individual clips unless I could choose the type clips I wanted to see. Plenty of light, fast action with changing backgrounds is a good place to look. Sometimes it takes playing both copies and the original to tell differences. In the end CCE wins out at doing back ups because it is a true encoder. Shrink though good is still a transcoder and doesn't do as good a job. Once compression goes past 20%, I'd shift to the CCE. Not everybody has CCE and it isn't free like Shrink. Shrink does well past 20%, but be sure to use deep analysis and AEC. With Shrink, I agree the deep analysis should be used whenever possible. It improves the video output. Obviously it's needed more as the compression gets heavier.
Binkie gave you some excellent advice on the RipIt4Me. DVD Decrypter needs help since it's no longer supported and some of the new movies need compliance editing with FixVTS (added with RipIt4Me). If you find a DVD RI4M can't do, download the AnyDVD trial from Slysoft.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. December 2006 @ 22:05
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. December 2006 @ 23:39 |
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Quote:
In the end CCE wins out at doing back ups because it is a true encoder. Shrink though good is still a transcoder and doesn't do as good a job.
Not always, if Shrink's compression shows 90%+ it's output will be cleaner/sharper than CCE's, no reason to 'start over' with another re-encode. You can dip even lower with interlaced material (video), setting Shrink to 'Max Sharpness', again Shrink produces a cleaner result. To re-encode with CCE will introduce some mosquito noise (usually around the edges of objects), that is usually masked with most encoders by a subtle blurring. There are all sorts of filters out there that the fanatics use to deal with this noise.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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29. December 2006 @ 00:15 |
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I've used CCE with Rebuilder from the early stages when jdobbs started developing the program. I was using Shrink a long time before that. I remember when many Shrink fans said Shrink couldn't be beat and that was before 3.2. As we all know, that wasn't so.
One of the reasons for the variations in contrast settings is because Shrink has a tendency to alter the appearance of the output from the original, sort of a "softening". That was good for covering output errors in the earlier versions. It was and is still a mild nuisance with 3.2 and entails the use of the sharp, max sharp, smooth, and max smooth. The author added those settings because there was that minor flaw with the contrast.
With CCE and Rebuilder, I've not noticed the mosquito noise induced by the encoder. With interlaced movies some people say Pro Coder 2 is a better encoder. I've used both CCE and Pro Coder 2 with similar good results. Pro Coder 2 took longer was the only difference. Rebuilder with these two supported encoders gave a truer copy, clarity and contrast, over the "softened" Shrink output. You can change the different contrast settings in Shrink, but it's hard to get an exact match to the original. RB comes closest.
With compression at 10% or less, any transcoder that's decent should be able to come close or match an encoder. There's little compression being done. I don't remember seeing the output being better though. With Shrink, the same contrast issues are there at 1% up. Many people think CCE and other encoders aren't really needed until the compression gets over 20%. I tend to agree, but since I have the programs and they do an excellent job, I go with Rebuilder at lower compression levels. I've got an OC(ed) AMD platform running at 2.7GHz, so I'm able to do encodes faster than many people can transcode with apps like Shrink. Besides, Shrink with the Quality Settings in use isn't much faster than RB/CCE.
Don't get me wrong. Shrink is a good app and it's free. Hard to beat that combo. I just find it's not better than apps costing hundreds and thousands of dollars.
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smokarz
Newbie
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29. December 2006 @ 04:04 |
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hi all, i really appreciate your responses however i am now a bit overwhelmed with the other tools/apps that you put out there.
i thought that DVD Shrink was the best app for backing up dvd, now it seems like there are more good quality apps (CCE, Nero decode, etc.)
can anyone say what is the best app now for backing up dvds? i am looking for quality, that's key for me.
again, i really appreciate all of your respones. thanks much
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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29. December 2006 @ 06:47 |
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Rebuilder with CCE SP is tops. CCE SP costs $2000. You can purchase the RB Pro pretty cheap. CCE Basic is about $50 though. Pro Coder 2 is good, but slower than the CCE. You see the setup referred to as RB/CCE here on the forum or RB/Pro Coder depending on the encoder in use. Those you pay for. There is a free version of the RB and a free encoder that does good. You can check that setup out at http://www.jdobbs.com/.
Shrink is the best freeware transcoder. You're better off using the Ripit4Me setup. You can check that out at http://www.ripit4me.org . Try the freeware first with Shrink, it's easier to learn and use. Then work with the free software setup with rebuilder. If you like it, then buy the Pro and get CCE or whatever you want. The Rebuilder Pro is definitely worth the small cost to purchase it and it has been getting updates for improvement.
Ripit4Me is a complete package once you have it set up. If using another setup, you may want to try the DVDFab Decrypter for your decryption needs.
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Member
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29. December 2006 @ 08:00 |
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Hi all. Rather than settle on any one way of backing up I like to switch about trying new programs for the experience and joy of learning. For a long time I just used DVDFab & Nero 6 Recode 2 using any discs that came to hand - Imation, Packard Bell made in places you couldn't find on the map, but then I started reading through the aD posts and came to RipIt4Me with the amazing Imgburn, tried changing discs, and backing up started to be fun again.
I tried the free version of DVDRebuilder and it took 6hours to encode. Tried it a few more times with different encoders and it took longer - 8hours. Gave up - either I'm doing something wrong or my PC's not up to it...
Regards
Edit:Typo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2006 @ 08:01
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. December 2006 @ 14:07 |
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With my old P4, 2.66GHz, 1GB RAM, I can encoded a backup via 3 PASSES VBR and my times are roughly 2 & 1/2 hrs. I guess she's alright for being more than 3 years old.
A fellow member name "teflonmyk" has done some nice encoding via 3 PASSES VBR and his Intel Core2duo can get the job done within 90 - 70 minutes using DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 combo. That is about the same amount or less comparing to DVD Shrink when using "DA + AEC + Max Smooth/Sharp."
Best of luck!!
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Member
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30. December 2006 @ 00:51 |
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At the time I had an Athlon 2.4 processor with half a gig of Ram, (this machine has since gone to silicon heaven). Our machines seem similar to me so why the long encoding time?
Looking through the Rebuilder forum people were saying about long (6hr) encoding times which is why I gave up, but I may try again...
Regards
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smokarz
Newbie
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30. December 2006 @ 06:50 |
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hi all,
i've decided to use the combo of ripit4me + descrypter + shrink. however, i installed ripit4me prior to installing the latter two. when i load up ripit4me, it doesn't display descrypter/shrink. is this ok? do i need to uninstall ripit4me and then re-install? if yes, how would i uninstall this app?
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Moderator
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30. December 2006 @ 07:45 |
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Shrink and Decrypter don't come up when you 1st start RiptIt4Me.
It opens them when it's time for them to be used.
You'll also need to download FixVTS if you didn't.
Follow the guide in the link above - it gives you step by step instructions on installation, settings and how to use.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. December 2006 @ 11:57 |
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Originally posted by Altercuno:
At the time I had an Athlon 2.4 processor with half a gig of Ram, (this machine has since gone to silicon heaven). Our machines seem similar to me so why the long encoding time?
Looking through the Rebuilder forum people were saying about long (6hr) encoding times which is why I gave up, but I may try again...
Regards
I don't know about you, but like I said my old P4, 2.66GHz, 1GB RAM will encode 2/3 PASSES VBR using DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 at around 2 1/2 hrs depends how big is the movie running. I don't know what you're using in combo with DVD-RB Pro, but according to my knowledge CCE SP 2.70 is the fastest.
In conclusion, DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 is the winner in the end.
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Member
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30. December 2006 @ 12:10 |
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Thanks alcohol I'm sure your right - it was just disappointing to abandon using it. As I was only testing it to gain knowledge I used the free encoders that came with it using the Dvd True Romance. My Pc went dead a few days later and I wonder if the processor was failing giving me the long encoding times.
edit:typo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. December 2006 @ 12:11
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 06:27 |
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Originally posted by alkohol:
With my old P4, 2.66GHz, 1GB RAM, I can encoded a backup via 3 PASSES VBR and my times are roughly 2 & 1/2 hrs. I guess she's alright for being more than 3 years old.
A fellow member name "teflonmyk" has done some nice encoding via 3 PASSES VBR and his Intel Core2duo can get the job done within 90 - 70 minutes using DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 combo. That is about the same amount or less comparing to DVD Shrink when using "DA + AEC + Max Smooth/Sharp."
Best of luck!!
My system falls between yours and teflonmyk's, though it's an AMD. I've used RB/CCE SP 2.70 and now the new CCE SP2 ver 1.00 (not any noticable difference). My system is a dual core 2.4 clocked to 2.7GHz. Most of my 3 pass encodes come in under 2 hours with many near the 90 minute level. With 2 passes I've gotten near 60 minutes on a few, though the average is higher. That's for the entire RB job, not just the encode portion of it. I guess some PCs with limited resources would take a long time, but as you mentioned, Shrink using the quality settings takes about as long as RB/CCE. So, if there is a noticable difference between the times for Shrink with quality settings and RB/CCE, I'd suspect someone is doing something wrong. I've actually seen some people try to back up a DVD from the optical drive, instead of ripping to the HD when using RB. Depending on the DVD, that could take almost forever.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 06:29 |
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Originally posted by Altercuno:
Thanks alcohol I'm sure your right - it was just disappointing to abandon using it. As I was only testing it to gain knowledge I used the free encoders that came with it using the Dvd True Romance. My Pc went dead a few days later and I wonder if the processor was failing giving me the long encoding times.
edit:typo
That could easily explain your problem. Using RB is a highly CPU intensive job. If the CPU isn't up to it, it will take longer and possibly help a bad CPU on it's way.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 06:34 |
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Originally posted by smokarz:
hi all,
i've decided to use the combo of ripit4me + descrypter + shrink. however, i installed ripit4me prior to installing the latter two. when i load up ripit4me, it doesn't display descrypter/shrink. is this ok? do i need to uninstall ripit4me and then re-install? if yes, how would i uninstall this app?
The suggested order of installation is to have DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink (latest versions) loaded before installing RipIt4Me. Then install Ripit4Me. The RipIt4Me installer also installs the FixVTS for you. If you opt to use a previously installed version of FixVTS, you will have to set the path in RipIt4Me. That app is so small, it's easier to let RipIt4Me install it.
binkie7 was right, RipIt4Me doesn't display the apps at startup, it opens them for you as the program progresses through the job.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2007 @ 06:36
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 20:00 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
My system falls between yours and teflonmyk's, though it's an AMD. I've used RB/CCE SP 2.70 and now the new CCE SP2 ver 1.00 (not any noticable difference). My system is a dual core 2.4 clocked to 2.7GHz. Most of my 3 pass encodes come in under 2 hours with many near the 90 minute level. With 2 passes I've gotten near 60 minutes on a few, though the average is higher. That's for the entire RB job, not just the encode portion of it. I guess some PCs with limited resources would take a long time, but as you mentioned, Shrink using the quality settings takes about as long as RB/CCE. So, if there is a noticable difference between the times for Shrink with quality settings and RB/CCE, I'd suspect someone is doing something wrong. I've actually seen some people try to back up a DVD from the optical drive, instead of ripping to the HD when using RB. Depending on the DVD, that could take almost forever.
Yes, I'm 100% agree with you, especially when it comes to DVD Shrink (times of transcoding) and DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 (times of encoding). With the latest rig, it's better off and wise to go with DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 (it's pretty much the same as DVD Shrink, but produces better quality.)
It is recommended to always rip the DVD/movie into the hard drive first regardless, that's the best way to edit, transcode or encode all your backups.
I know my system is old (3 plus yrs), but she's still rip like new and get the job done flawlessly, so I guess I'm good for now.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 20:29 |
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Quote:
so I guess I'm good for now
Sounds like it. You understand the software and system maintenance which goes a long way in a platform's performance. Too bad the beginners don't pay more attention to you and the other knowledgable members here at AD. Doing backups is a relatively simple affair. Most of the time it is software interference or hardware conflicts that cause problems, that and the improper use of the software when trying to do a backup. I think you touched on most of that in your post. Keep up the good work.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2007 @ 20:31
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2007 @ 21:09 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Sounds like it. You understand the software and system maintenance which goes a long way in a platform's performance. Too bad the beginners don't pay more attention to you and the other knowledgable members here at AD. Doing backups is a relatively simple affair. Most of the time it is software interference or hardware conflicts that cause problems, that and the improper use of the software when trying to do a backup. I think you touched on most of that in your post. Keep up the good work.
You're welcome. And you too, keep up the good work helping out newbies or those that are lost. AfterDawn definitely needed the few members like you here.
To be honest with you, the only tool (software) that I strongly deemed worth my hard earned money is DVD-RB Pro (worth every penny) -- the rest, all I used are free tools; to mention a few of them: DVDFab Decrypter, RipIt4Me (DVD Decrypter + FixVTS), ImgBurn and VobBlanker. Nero is another story, but it's true I prefer to burn with Nero nearly 90% and the other 10% is with ImgBurn or DVD Decrypter. And yes, I have no problem ripping and backing up any DVDs/movies regardless if it's old or new released. With that in mind, nearly 99% of the times, all I ever needed is either to rip with DVDFab Decrypter or simply the new "God of Ripper" aka RipIt4Me and the rest is done with either DVD-RB Pro + CCE SP 2.70 (if 30% or more compressions needed) or Nero Recode (30% or less).
That being said; newbies (or those that despise me) can laugh all they want or spend as much as money on all DVD ripping tools/applications and I'll still be sippin' on a Corona while I'm ripping and backing up all of my favorite DVDs flawlessly.
Again, AD needed more members like you (or the few like us) -- I've noticed there are not much of knowledgeable members left (some comes and go), few still comes around once in a while. I've been to most of the forums (i.e. Doom, cdfreaks, digital-digest, http://www.dvd-rb.com, http://www.videohelp.com, etc.), but for some reason I hardly/never post on those sites and always end up coming back here (AfterDawn).
It's like home to me, plus I guess I know more members here (AD), to name a few: binkie, creaky (one of the best/coolest mod here at AD), docTY aka kivory (my good ole buddy), fasfrank (cool and knows what he's doing), locoeng, arniebear, JaguardGod (he's got skills & knowledge), Mort81, IHoe, syxguns, aabbcc, gwen, etc.
Cheers and keep up the good work!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2007 @ 21:27
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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7. January 2007 @ 09:23 |
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Thanks for the compliment. You're including me in good company with those names you mentioned. Some of them I already recognize from forum threads I've been in. With the holidays over, I don't know if I'll be a regular poster. Less free time. I'll be dropping in as I can. Today being Sunday, I have a few hours to browse around. To be sociable, I'll tip a Bud your way.
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