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Despite Bourne, Blu-ray still wins week
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 28 December, 2007
After taking a week off for the holiday season, the official HD disc sales data are in from Nielsen VideoScan, and the results are not surprising.
Despite very strong sales of the HD DVD-exclusive "Bourne Ultimatum", Blu-ray won the week ending December 16th by a 61:39 margin. "Ultimatum" outsold Blu-ray's best title, "POTC: At World's End" by an almost 2:1 ratio, but Amazon's Blu-ray ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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28. December 2007 @ 23:34 |
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b18bek9
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29. December 2007 @ 00:04 |
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i dont know why u post blu ray is selling more movies when they should by alot figuring new and older movies are blu ray only. Sony has a bigger bunch of studios so of course its gonna sell more movies why do u need a study to find that out and also HD DVD has only a couple movies that are HD exclusive so its not a surprise that sonys winning this format war. Sad to say it but the anti consumer has the upper hand...oh well pays to have the best of both worlds so picking up a dual format player or one of each standalone is the way to go. Or just download HD rips until the wars over.
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29. December 2007 @ 00:13 |
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Originally posted by b18bek9:
picking up a dual format player or one of each standalone is the way to go
So your willing to spend $1000 for a dual format instead of buying the winning format or even waiting til the format war is over? In the future, if HD DVD loses, all those HD DVD movies will eventually be made into Blu-ray. And as a plus, the actual blu-ray format won't die for another decade or so because PS3 games are made on it, HD DVD, possibly will when the war is over. I dont think shelling out $1000 for a dual format player makes alot of sense. As well, saying "well LG has a Dual Format player for my computer for only $400". Well does your computer have a good enough video to play HD movies? And a Dual-Core processor is probably needed now, as well as having a widescreen monitor, thats a given anyways.
I say, just wait.
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juankerr
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29. December 2007 @ 00:22 |
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What's also interesting is that the numbers show that BluRay won the Harry Potter derby. Both the single disc Order of the Phoenix and the Years 1 - 5 Gift set on BluRay outsold their HD DVD counterparts.
This contradicts the numbers that Ken Graffeo put out last week. There's speculation that the numbers he released included units sold to rental chains.
Dave Vaughn leaked the latest numbers from Nielsen yesterday (week ending December 23rd).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958172&page=9
For the second straight week it's Blu 61: HD 39. Harry Potter on BD again outsold the HD DVD version. Bourne gets great 2nd week sales but a strong showing from The Simpsons plus good catalog sales give Blu the win. Out of the top 20 titles, 14 were BluRay. The HD DVD BOGO's weren't enough. Maybe this week's amazon and Best Buy HD deals could do it?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 00:28
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red2tango
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29. December 2007 @ 03:42 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
What's also interesting is that the numbers show that BluRay won the Harry Potter derby. Both the single disc Order of the Phoenix and the Years 1 - 5 Gift set on BluRay outsold their HD DVD counterparts.
This contradicts the numbers that Ken Graffeo put out last week. There's speculation that the numbers he released included units sold to rental chains.
Dave Vaughn leaked the latest numbers from Nielsen yesterday (week ending December 23rd).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958172&page=9
For the second straight week it's Blu 61: HD 39. Harry Potter on BD again outsold the HD DVD version. Bourne gets great 2nd week sales but a strong showing from The Simpsons plus good catalog sales give Blu the win. Out of the top 20 titles, 14 were BluRay. The HD DVD BOGO's weren't enough. Maybe this week's amazon and Best Buy HD deals could do it?
thank you for clearing that up with the false info we got.hd-dvd is still trailing,despite bluray having no big hits at the moment other than pirates of the caribbean.warner obviously is second guessing their decision.CES will tell all.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 16:34
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duckNrun
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29. December 2007 @ 05:13 |
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SO the win is partly attributed to GIVING AWAY FREE (as in free beer) movies. Based upon that logic if Ford gave away a Kazoo with every car they sell you would be able to say that Kazoo's are the biggest selling toy item when in fact logic would dictate this is not so. But when people talk about their beloved HD formats this logic is thrown out the window and the numbers count. lol
Also as others have pointed out here with the number of BD capable hardware out there a win ratio of 61:39 is hardly impressive at all. This equates out to less than a 2:1 lead for a format that has upwards of 8-10x the players out there.
So lets look at it this way (and conservativly even):
Premise:
There are 8M BD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a BD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 10M)
There are 2M HD DVD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a HD DVD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 1.5M)
This means that BD SHOULD be selling at the very least 4 TIMES as many discs as HD DVD. If you reduce the above ratio of 61:39 you come up with BD selling 1.5 times more discs with 4-5x more players in circulation. Another way of looking at it is to say that of all HD players out there anywhere from 10%-25% (more likely at 15%) are HD DVD and that this 10%-25% makes up 39% of all HD movie sales.
This means that while HD DVD has less players in peoples homes those people with HD DVD are buying more movies per player than people with BD players. This is something that should be considered by all the players involved. At this rate if the HD DVD HW sales increased by 1/2 of what is now out there these numbers would significantly become closer if not flip flopped.
One question of interest would be HOW MANY people who own HD players own BOTH formats. For dual format consumers the decision on which disc to buy would more likely come down to firstly the price of the disc in either format and secondly (for a much smaller percentage of users) the extras included in both formats.
Regardless of any of this though to claim that a format with 4-5x the available hardware out there is winning because it sells 1.5 times more movies is hardly the whole picture.
And btw... I own neither format.
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29. December 2007 @ 06:01 |
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Originally posted by duckNrun:
Also as others have pointed out here with the number of BD capable hardware out there a win ratio of 61:39 is hardly impressive at all. This equates out to less than a 2:1 lead for a format that has upwards of 8-10x the players out there.
So lets look at it this way (and conservativly even):
Premise:
There are 8M BD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a BD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 10M)
There are 2M HD DVD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a HD DVD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 1.5M)
This means that BD SHOULD be selling at the very least 4 TIMES as many discs as HD DVD. If you reduce the above ratio of 61:39 you come up with BD selling 1.5 times more discs with 4-5x more players in circulation. Another way of looking at it is to say that of all HD players out there anywhere from 10%-25% (more likely at 15%) are HD DVD and that this 10%-25% makes up 39% of all HD movie sales.
There is a reason to BD not having a massive lead look at the HD titles from both formats they aren't putting out no more than 15 to 20 titles a month so there isn't a bigger selection to choose from.CE don't care about this numbers play BS from Toshiba they want to see numbers & how many HD Capable HD units are in house wholes & the bottom line is BD out sold HD-DVD for a hold year without HD-DVD outselling BD for one week 65%BD 35%HD thats strong.Not only that BD has sold better in every country these are just US figures outside the US this really isn't a format war with BD crushing HD in Europe & Jap.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 06:04
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hughjars
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29. December 2007 @ 06:23 |
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LMAO
Another desperately weak Blu-ray 'win'.
They have a 10:1+ advantage in the number of players and yet they can't even manage a 2:1 lead in movie disc sales.
Hilarious.
The Blu-ray lead is only 1.56:1 - which incidentally works out to the 'since inception' number too.
It's also a fact that the BDA has sponsored over 20 BOGO sales already in 2007.
HD DVD has just run just 2 - both this month.
You'll find that HD DVD offer a pretty restricted (tho still good) selection on it's BOGO whilst Blu-ray's BOGOs have included huge blockbuster films like the Pirates Of the Caribbean films, Casino Royale, Night At the Museum, X-Men: Last Stand, and many others.
They've also included recent releases like 28 Weeks Later, The Fly, Day After Tomorrow just a mere 2 weeks after their debut.
It must be costing Blu-ray a fortune (and adding costs to an already costly format for the producers).
Only a few weeks to CES 2008.
Can't wait.
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nobrainer
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29. December 2007 @ 06:36 |
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@ hughjars
totally agree mate over 6 1/2+ million DRM-ray players sold, and less than 1 million hd-dvd players and DRM-ray only manages a pitiful lead, it shows how the general public just dont care about hi-def content and are happy with dvd but out of the two formats ppl that own hd-dvd players purchase more titles per unit than they do for sony's DRM-ray players.
then you have all the bogof (by one get one free) offers that has been a unit fixing strategy since the start with coupons in US ps3's and blu-ray players to enable consumers to get extra titles for heavily reduced prices that were counted towards the total sales, desperation from the MPAA to fix it so their format of choice wins the war because of the anti consumer DRM bundled with Blu-Ray, that the mafia cops want so badly to lock us out of content WE own!
no matter what the news you can be assured of nextgen spinning and cherry picking for sony but what do you expect from a sony blogger!
ppl don't let the MPAA control the hardware as well as the software Blu(DRM)-RAY is all about locking content down, it has the most anti consumer, propertarian, orwellian DRM schemes to date even more invasive that sony's xcp rootkit or sony's secuROM.
@ nextgen
what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's. most retailers other a few in the cities ain't even bothering to stock Hi-Def media as there is not a viable market in the UK yet.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 06:54
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hughjars
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29. December 2007 @ 07:08 |
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Originally posted by nobrainer:
@ nextgen
what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's.
- That's one of the funniest claims from the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub of all.
If high def movie sales (of both formats) are currently tiny in the USA (and, with both formats having less than 4% of total movie disc market sales, they most definitely are) then they are to all intents and purposes invisible in the UK & the rest of Europe.
This is just the Blu-ray gang (once again) trying to (ab)use ratios and percentages to talk up their preferred format.
They steer as far away from discussing any actual numbers sold as they can cos suddenly it exposes their ridiculous exaggeration.
The truth still stands, the existing numbers of discs sold right now are so tiny that any big movement in the market (from the producer end of things) would blow them away very quickly.
We're about to see that as the Blu-ray house of cards begins to tumble.
CES 2008 and the events there will be the first stage in this.
Then the coming $100 Chinese HD DVD players (that will replace those same Chinese producer's/brand's regular DVD players - which are still out-selling both high def formats by a country mile) will be the next really major step that consumers will see.
Blu-ray is set to be nothing more than a stagnating PS3 proprietary format (with relatively tiny amount of additional standalone & PC burner activity glued on).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 07:09
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nobrainer
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29. December 2007 @ 07:18 |
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@ hughjars
tesco stock all game machines in store bar the ps3, and the shelf space is dedicated to 360 and wii games, with ds psp and ps2 with a smaller share no HD films just plain old dvd's for as little as £5
the book section is larger than the game section, but i suppose that says something about british ppl over americans, sry america dont mean to stereotype but you keep falling for the Spin and piffle on the tube and iraq is all about OIL ffs please learn history about mesopotamia! read some noam chomsky or such like and become a "god dam commie" or is that enlightened to the central banks control over the government!
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/
tesco, every little helps!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 07:27
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DjDanio
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29. December 2007 @ 07:29 |
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Originally posted by nobrainer:
what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart)...
Be honest, you don't really know what you're talking about.
Firstly, Asda = Walmart. And Asda is an awful place, really cheap and nasty.
Secondly, i think it has even been said on here, that blu ray is outselling Hddvd in europe.
Thirdly, There are so few people out there buying HD films it doesn't really matter which one is selling more etc. These sorts of story about blu ray and HD DVD are getting BORING!!!!
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nobrainer
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29. December 2007 @ 08:33 |
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Originally posted by DjDanio :
Originally posted by nobrainer:
@ nextgen
what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's. most retailers other a few in the cities ain't even bothering to stock Hi-Def media as there is not a viable market in the UK yet.
Be honest, you don't really know what you're talking about.
Firstly, Asda = Walmart. And Asda is an awful place, really cheap and nasty.
Secondly, i think it has even been said on here, that blu ray is outselling Hddvd in europe.
Thirdly, There are so few people out there buying HD films it doesn't really matter which one is selling more etc. These sorts of story about blu ray and HD DVD are getting BORING!!!!
sry you misunderstood my sentence, yes asda is owned by walmart, but tesco has the market share in the uk as walmart does in america!
the leading supermarket = tesco
this is old data and i would'nt be surprised if now tesco has over 40% market share, i will endeavour to source up to data information for your mince pies!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4694974.stm
SUPERMARKET SHARE
Tesco: 30.6%
Asda: 16.6%
Sainsbury's: 16.3%
Morrison's: 11.1%
Somerfield: 5.4%
Waitrose: 3.7%
Iceland: 1.8%
Source: TNS
http://www.flex-news-food.com/pages/6607..._market_dj.html
Originally posted by above link:
11/01/2007
London, Jan. 10 - Tesco PLC's market share in the U.K. grocery market for the 12 weeks to December 31 has risen to 31.4%, according to Taylor Nelson Sofres World Panel market share data Wednesday.
Daily News Alerts
Asda, a subsidiary of the world's biggest retailer Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) of the U.S., saw its sales increase 5% in the period. Its market share stood at 16.6%.
J Sainsbury PLC (JSAIY) has narrowed the gap on Asda to 0.2%, TNS said. J Sainsbury's market share was 16.4%.
William Morrisons grew at 4%, while Waitrose had an 11% year on year increase, giving the retailer a 3.9% Christmas market share.
Somerfield PLC dipped from 4.1% to 3.9%.
MY POINT WAS: even the leading retailer in the uk does not stock Hi-Def media in any stores nor does it stock PS3's!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 09:11
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vinny13
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29. December 2007 @ 10:34 |
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If there's so many Blu-Ray players, why would Blu-Ray be dumped? What would happen to the 6 million or so owners that bought one in the US alone?
Besides, how could HD-DVD possibly win if its been beaten every week of the year, INCLUDING THEIR EXCLUSIVE RELEASES?
Like, some guy has to be damn retarded to go with a format that sells less and will piss of a much larger group. Even when I ask random people at places at FutureShop and BestBuy they all say Blu-Ray is doing much better.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 10:34
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nobrainer
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29. December 2007 @ 11:18 |
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@ vinny13
its not about the amount of hardware that will be the deciding factor, its about units sold against the hardware base, so at the moment hd-dvd is the clear leader of sales of hi def media because more ppl that own hd-dvd players actually purchase films which is what the movie industry is about remember, units sold per unit of hardware = £$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$££$£$£$£$ from each person!!!!!!
i would personally rewrite your closing sentence to "DRM-Ray has the potential to do much better" but do ppl purchase the ps3 to watch movies or has sony's (MPAA) anti consumer DRM media lockdown, gamble failed to work?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 11:26
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Member
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29. December 2007 @ 11:50 |
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Originally posted by nobrainer:
@ vinny13
its not about the amount of hardware that will be the deciding factor, its about units sold against the hardware base, so at the moment hd-dvd is the clear leader of sales of hi def media because more ppl that own hd-dvd players actually purchase films which is what the movie industry is about remember, units sold per unit of hardware = £$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$££$£$£$£$ from each person!!!!!!
i would personally rewrite your closing sentence to "DRM-Ray has the potential to do much better" but do ppl purchase the ps3 to watch movies or has sony's (MPAA) anti consumer DRM media lockdown, gamble failed to work?
Thats got to be the most asinine comment i've heard on this site.CE look at the bottom line Blu-Ray has sold more players & disc than HD-DVD just leave the BS spinning alone.Show me where they haven't.Why would any company go with a format that hasn't outsold its rival in Hardware & Software & has only 35% share of the HD market.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 11:54
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Senior Member
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29. December 2007 @ 12:53 |
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First, although this may sound weird, I would like to see the sales of Ultimatum, POTC: AWE and the Harry Potter series on vanilla DVD just to get a real picture of how well either format has penetrated the market.
Personally I don't believe that "Free" discs in the BOGO sales should be counted. Sure, it is another disc pushed though but it wasn't actually bought therefore unless the discs are way overpriced Blu-Ray is losing money with every disc (or every couple of discs) sold.
I am not sure if HD DVD had any BOGO sales, although Best Buy did have something in an ad on a BOGO sale for HD DVD, but if you eliminate the "Free" discs from Blu-Ray's side then the actual amount of discs bought is closer to 39:30.5 or ~1.28:1 ratio with HD DVD leading according to the numbers in this news article.
Regardless, it looks like we will have to wait until CES (or way later, possibly never) before a real victor is established in the war to take over vanilla DVD as the chosen format.
Peace
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hughjars
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29. December 2007 @ 13:34 |
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Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
First, although this may sound weird, I would like to see the sales of Ultimatum, POTC: AWE and the Harry Potter series on vanilla DVD just to get a real picture of how well either format has penetrated the market.
- High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.
That really does put the sweeping grand claims of the Blu-ray (we already won) crowd into perspective.
Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
Personally I don't believe that "Free" discs in the BOGO sales should be counted.
- Well it's a legitimate marketing tactic and consumers can (at least in the short-term) benefit - but I would agree that it ought to be made crystal clear and transparent what is going on and which weeks are not a straight battle (and are effectively 'bought).
Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
therefore unless the discs are way overpriced Blu-Ray is losing money with every disc (or every couple of discs) sold.
- We already know from what Viacom/Paramount has said that Blu-ray is a more difficult and more costly format to work with and produce.
Unfortunately the Blu-ray gang simply either cannot understand the role costs play in a products profitability
(or they just determinedly ignore that aspect of the business, hence all the focus on the small lead and supposed 'millions' of sales/customers Blu-ray has - which is garbage, the last BDA stats showed 4 million Blu-ray discs in total sold to 2.7 HD DVD).
Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
I am not sure if HD DVD had any BOGO sales
- This month (Dec 07) HD DVD held their first and second BOGO deals.
Blu-ray has had 20 this year (which is how come they 'bought' the week Transformers appeared etc etc - without the distorting effects of the repeated Blu-ray BOGOs HD DVD has won several weeks this year).
Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
Regardless, it looks like we will have to wait until CES (or way later, possibly never) before a real victor is established in the war to take over vanilla DVD as the chosen format.
Peace
- Yeah, CES is the beginning of the end and it will gather pace throughout this year.
Inexpensive HD DVD will replace current regular DVD and for much the same money.
Blu-ray is on the way to be a stagnate PS3 game console proprietary format, a potential market of several million still worth selling to but the movie studios will end up following the money and peeling away leaving (in the end) Sony to prop up the more costly (and therefore less profitable) format for as long as they will.
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sciascia
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29. December 2007 @ 14:06 |
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Quote:
- High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.
Regardless of the numbers SDVD is putting up, it is going to be replaced, and that is the bottom line. We are not debating the sales of SDVD, infact, they mean nothing in this war. SDVD could start selling hand over fist (which is probably will towards the very end of its life span) but it will still be replaced. I always see you bringing this up but it really means nothing, don't you think?
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nobrainer
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29. December 2007 @ 14:37 |
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Originally posted by sciascia :
Quote:
- High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.
Regardless of the numbers SDVD is putting up, it is going to be replaced, and that is the bottom line. We are not debating the sales of SDVD, infact, they mean nothing in this war. SDVD could start selling hand over fist (which is probably will towards the very end of its life span) but it will still be replaced. I always see you bringing this up but it really means nothing, don't you think?
it shows the purchasing trends, and is very relevant because it shows that ppl don't care about Hi-Def films, because ppl are happy with DVD's contrary to what sony says which is the war is won, but the war hasn't even started and by the time ppl think about changing there will be another format to choose from as technology moves very fast, you know! and in all reality who wants to purchase DRM-Ray films that sony want full control over!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. December 2007 @ 14:39
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ljbanner
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29. December 2007 @ 18:02 |
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Originally posted by vinny13:
If there's so many Blu-Ray players, why would Blu-Ray be dumped? What would happen to the 6 million or so owners that bought one in the US alone?
Besides, how could HD-DVD possibly win if its been beaten every week of the year, INCLUDING THEIR EXCLUSIVE RELEASES?
Like, some guy has to be damn retarded to go with a format that sells less and will piss of a much larger group. Even when I ask random people at places at FutureShop and BestBuy they all say Blu-Ray is doing much better.
they could go back to playing video games as this is what blu was intended for
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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29. December 2007 @ 18:58 |
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Quote:
This upcoming week should be interesting to see considering Amazon and Best Buy have had BOGO sales running on HD DVD titles.
I would like to see what happens after this.
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26r0cK
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29. December 2007 @ 23:17 |
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Since there's so many BOGO wit blu-ray you'd probably think that maybe the price of one Blu-ray movie is actually the amount of 2. So really a Blu-ray movie is about $15 a piece. Producing disc isnt too expensive. and if that were tru then HD-DVD had be rippin many ppl off witout offering alot of BOGO til now lol. Just my thought ehehe XD
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29. December 2007 @ 23:22 |
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Originally posted by 26r0cK:
Since there's so many BOGO wit blu-ray you'd probably think that maybe the price of one Blu-ray movie is actually the amount of 2. So really a Blu-ray movie is about $15 a piece. Producing disc isnt too expensive. and if that were tru then HD-DVD had be rippin many ppl off witout offering alot of BOGO til now lol. Just my thought ehehe XD
Lets not forget the week Bourne & Harry Potter launched they both was included for HD-DVD bogo sell & HD-DVD still didn't outsell BD that week minus no BD bogo that week, how much more does Warner & Universal need to make the switch.
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jove
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30. December 2007 @ 03:54 |
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Originally posted by Rudeboi:
Blu-Ray FTW
what does ftw mean?
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